Chris Bangle, absolute genius or destroyer of BMW?

635CSi wrote: thepits wrote: great idea....... not had a CB thread for ---oooooo--- ages! here's a couple of old ones to give you inspiration! http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=7986& ; ; ; ;KW=bangle http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=14609&am p;am p;am p;am p;KW=bangle Ok this thread is officially pointless then!! I actually never knew there was already dispute about Chris Bangle but still, you have to give me credit for the idea or at least for trying.

No, no - I mean it really is a GREAT  idea - the inspirational threads are very old - it's about time he had another bashing!

Its interesting that the 6 series continues to be the divide of BMW fans.

You either love them or loathe them. 

However, I have to disagree with those two users that say they've driven them and the car falls short of being a 'BMW' drivers car.  Completely and utterly disagree.

Heres why:

I bought a new 645 Cab in August 2005.  I still have it.  That is a record for me, by a very long way.  Prior to that I had never owned a car for more than a year.

The 645's predecessor was a new E46 M3 Cab (SMGII).  I had that for 9 months.  That cars predecessor was a new E46 M3 Coupe (Manual).  I had that for 9 months too.  It must be a pregnancy thing with me.  The fact I owned both models of BMW's supposed ultimate driving machine, and both transmission types, means I think I have a fairly legitimate claim to know what a drivers car is meant to deliver.  The M3's delivered - don't get me wrong.  Superb driving machines.  BUT.

Let me continue...

The 645 is the ONLY car I have ever owned that offers true Jekyll and Hyde characteristics.  One minute it'll glide and waft along in sublime silence with only a slight burble from that glorious V8 and muffled tone from the rear.  The next, hit Sport, shift the gearstick to the left to engage DriveSport - and manually shift it down a gear...and the car comes alive.  It takes a lot of getting used to - probably a good 3-4 weeks before you start to appreciate just how much of a flexible Coupe the car is, but when you do...you fall in love with it.  Thats without doubt what has happened with me.

I have looked at new and used M6's - and I've had one for a weekend as my dealership tried to convince me to buy one, and then I had one for half a day in a second attempt.  Yes its fast, very very fast.  However, it was Hyde.  There was no Jekyll.  The car is out and out and I don't buy the fact that it is portrayed as luxury barge as well as the barnstorming hooligan.  I found it didn't suit a change in mood.

Furthermore, with 333 bhp and 332 lbs ft of torque, the 6 isn't a slow car.  Its surprisingly quick in fact, with even my Cab hitting 60 in 6.1s.  I have lost count of the number of times I have been on car meets/runs with people in significantly faster cars and received the comment of "Bloody hell, thats goes well".  Granted that on corners you'll find the cars limit if you REALLY push it.  However, in 20 months of ownership I only recently discovered that in a 900+ mile tour of Scotland when I had to back off behind 2 x new VW Golf R32's with their legendary 4WD system making life following them, ermm, challenging!  That was in driving rain and snow - with sheeted and standing water.  Up until that point, I'd never felt the car wouldn't do what I wanted, and anyone that knows me will vouch for the fact I push my cars.  I do not Sunday drive (not on a Saturday anyway).

The torque is readily available, the gearchange is nothing less than the best of any car I have ever owned or driven (and thats a lot).  In tiptronic style shifting yes the changes could do with being alterable - but thats what they offer SMGII for - I just didn't choose it.  Nonetheless, once you get the hang of it, it'll do exactly what you ask of it every time and never ceases to amaze me in terms of how it soaks up whatever I throw at it.

Finally, as a fellow driver on the Scotland tour reminded me, I arrived back home after a 900+ mile tour, having driven both hard and slow stretches - in total and utter comfort, with the car adopting an attitude of 'is that the best you can throw at me?' whilst still enjoying the wail of the V8 when in DriveSport/Sport mode. 

I get 21.8 mpg average out of a 4.4 litre V8 - only 1 mpg less than I did out of the M3's - and frankly it is a world apart from them.  I know they are different cars for different occasions and different people in the main, but the fact I still own the car 20 months on, and have cancelled an order on a possible successor to it because I came to the conclusion that I really didn't want to change the best car I have ever owned....is testament to the car.

I will always say if I don't like a certain car, whether I own it or not.  I have an Audi A4 Avant TDi on a 54 plate that is frankly the biggest pile of driving muck I have ever had the misfortune to try to thrash to death.  I also have a 54 plated 320d SE which is a better car than the Audi...but wayyyy too heavy and its economy is a joke to say the least for the type of car it pretends to be.  So, its not a case of just defending the car I own.

Quite what my next car will be I really don't know.  Its been that good and continues to delight me every time I look at it, drive it or even wash it.  As sad as it seems, it has been an absolute pleasure to buy, own and drive - and I for one believe BMW are to be congratulated for at least getting one owner to keep a car for coming up to double the record he ever previously had!!!!

Edited by Coasting

I think Bangle has the right idea. The new cars have to be different or people
will get fed up and buy another brand. I loved the new e65 7 series when it
came out. So different to anything else. But they shouldn't have toned it
down as now it just looks weak. Like the Fiat Multipla. The original looked
just plain hideous but that gave it caracter. New restyled version (lower head
lights) just looks wrong. It's lost its caracter by trying to blend in with
everything else.

dryle wrote: nah the xc90 looks like a v40 on stilts

I don't know how it could because the V40 was designed way before the XC90's time and when Volvo had a different corporate image, I can post a picture of a V40 up if you like.


Edited by thepits

I love the e39 and e38 models myself but believe from a corporate view point you need to be bold to make sales these days and there is alot of competition now from Audi and Merc. Also, each model seems to have a life span of 7 or so years including mid-life tweeks, so a car needs to look almost futuristic in the beginning to last the pace. That's my view anyways. I didn't like the new 7 series when it came out first but the facelift version is definetly an improvement. I like the 6 series, and z4 roadster. I love the Z4 coupe and 3 series coupe. I'm not a great fan of the 3 series saloon or 5 series (pre facelift).

if you look at the cars in their different class's then bmw have generally the nicer looking cars.

i like the x5, she wants a 7 seater if i win euromillions, i can have an m6 then, but i think the range rover sport in the rustic brown colour is nicer.

Despite the controversy surrounding Bangle's work, numerous automakers have emulated his design elements. For example, the 2007 Mercedes-Benz S-Class came out with a Bangle style trunk and several Toyotas (notably the Avalon and Camry) have utilized his "Bangle-butt" design cues. The new-for-2007 Lexus LS also bears some resemblance to the BMW 7 Series.

Edited by dryle

There was a time when any BMW, you would've been proud to have on your drive, for some people it still is so, as long as it has the appropriate reg number attached to it !! (this is the group of people that BMW corp care about)

Has there ever been a time like now that BMW enthusiasts wouldn't be seen dead in some of the marque models, probably not.

The Bangle era is a whole new style direction that is taking BMW as a company from strength to strength, but it has been their marketing that is driving the sales further and further as badge identification is more and more prevalent as society becomes more affluent, more 3er's than mondeos being sold in the UK ! Even if the styling is not universally accepted they have managed to maintain the driving dynamics which makes BMW's what they are - the ultimate...you know the rest.

That aside, the E60 is a car I wouldn't mind owning, I like the look of it and the interior is at the top of it's class - only you need horrifically large wheels to make it look good from the outside. The E90 saloon is not a very nice car, looks great, really aggressive from the front, but the rear is a complete balls up. The interior is small and spartan, seats are not very good - but boy does it drive well. The jury for me is still out on the E92. The 6 series is the bomb, its unusual, aggressive and handsome at the same time, its proportions are monumental, you can live with the rear tail thingy and it's the only non-M model that I would actively seek out in the future, prices are dropping nicely - roll on 2012 - may be able to afford a nice 630 by then. I thought the 7 series was nice the first day it fell from the ugly tree. Most marque flagships today are gaudy from over styling, to test the market for the big mid-segment hitters to come out based on them.

As good as the E46/39 were they are starting to look a little dated, their proportions make them look flat in comparison to the new breed.

Sorry for the long response, I've got the flu - so feck all to be at ! Time for another lemsip.

IMO the E90 is the best looking in Arctic Blue with Elipsoid spoke wheels, I think it is a very appealing looking car but definitely not beautiful!

The worst looking is the X3, it's not just the worst BMW on sale today, it's one of the worst cars on sale today. Really and truly a horrible car!

The E60 has grown on me a good bit and I do agree it looks fantastic with the M Pack but it will never appeal to me like the E39 did. To me the E39 is automotive perfection.

I hated the E65 7 Series when it was launched but when it was toned down into the E66 it looked less ugly. It can look quite good from some angles I'll give it that.

The 6 Series isn't bad looking at all but it falls short in the BMW driving experience, it's not that good a drive surprisingly for a BMW.

The new X5 looks like the old one except more hideous at the front, it looks way too fussy and the creases spoil the design somewhat. The 3rd row of seats are also virtually useless. Still I'd choose one over an M Class but maybe not an XC90.

The E92 is lovely BTW but it looks like it crashed into a propeller from the side!

635CSi

Hmmm.. I agree with Chris above re the E60, has to have the M kit and the wheels seen on the 530d Sports. But short of this i much prefer the E39 over the E60.

This also extends to the E46 and the E38, i just think they are more like the bmw's i grew up around and liked from the get-go, the sweeping dashboard and the creases down the sides of the car at wheelarch level both of which are seen in models back as far as the E30 and E34. The e39 and e46 just seemed like a logical progression over their predecessors and i found them instantly likeable. I have to say i havent warmed to the E60 and E90 in the same way, perhaps the E60 with sport kit but the E90 does nothing for me.

I have resigned myself to the fact that i wont be owning an e60 or an e90 anytime soon for many reasons ( mainly financial!   ) but when the time comes to progress and move up from the E34's and now E36's i will be moving to the 39 or 46, for me there more of my own idea of, and what i percieve as, a BM.

I was no fan of the E60 at first, but I have warmed to it, there is some
fantastic surfacing on it, yet it is restrained and not as in your face as the
Z4's manic surfacing. I think the design is holding well, and to my eyes
has not started to date, as ever BMW got the details spot on, wheelbase,
overhangs, glass area, so whatever happen between those spaces the
fundamentals of the car are right. I think some of Bangles other efforts
really show some poor design, the rear of the 6 and the whole of the pre
facelift 7, there is no getting away from the fact that there is a lack of
cohesiveness that would have never been signed off pre Bangle. But it is
edgy and challenging, and it has worked from a sales POV, but us purist
will always hark back to a bygone era, just as kids today will view the E60
as a classic when confronted with future BMW designs.

It's the curse of the fuddy duddy...