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Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 19:50 | |||
Whatever the latest government fad is, it was the so called "speed kills", at the moment it seems everyone is a terrorist, and they need to put us under unprecidented amounts of surveilance to make us safe.
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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Rhys
Moderator Group Coffee addict... Joined: 02-February-2003 Location: from the Latin locātiō Status: Offline Points: 10053 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 20:24 | |||
Who puts them under surveilance?
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Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 20:32 | |||
They would be under the same system as us, only it would be details witheld on the pnc. |
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 20:39 | |||
I'm not sure the security issue on all this data has been answered. |
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 20:56 | |||
It's not surveillance, surveillance would be targeted & observing
identified individuals etc, not noting all car movements past a point.
Officers will of course be monitored in how they handle any sensitive data as they are now with other databases. Edited by livvy |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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Rhys
Moderator Group Coffee addict... Joined: 02-February-2003 Location: from the Latin locātiō Status: Offline Points: 10053 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 20:58 | |||
OK, but who monitors the police?
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate
J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 28-December-2005 at 21:02 | |||
Depends on what aspect.
Data Protection Commissioners etc |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 04:37 | |||
You're being a bit disingenuous here, livvy, it's not noting all car movements past a point: it's the ability to monitor every cars movements across nearly every square mile of the UK, with the ability to see where a car started, where it went, where it ended its journey. In essence, it is the ability to surveil every motorist from a computer screen. Not just when they make the journey, but FIVE years later. If they kicked down your door at 4AM and accused you of involvement in a crime five years ago, would you be able to even remember what you did on the day in question? Edited by spokey |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 05:03 | |||
We may have covered it, but your blandishments do NOT reassure me. Sooner or later, someone is going to have their life ruined and be put in jail because of this. Remember the Guildford Four, Judith Ward, the Darvell brothers, the Cardiff Three, Danny McNamee, the M25 Three and the Bridgewater Four? That all happened without the easy access to lazy policing that this offers. |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 05:04 | |||
"Newspeak, doublethink, thoughtcrime--in 1984, George Orwell created a whole vocabulary of words concerning totalitarian control that have since passed into our common vocabulary. More importantly, he has portrayed a chillingly credible dystopia. In our deeply anxious world, the seeds of unthinking conformity are everywhere in evidence; and Big Brother is always looking for his chance." |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 05:37 | |||
That's not how the ANPR cameras work though. They will not cover every inch of the road & vehicles are not "monitored" between cameras. What they do is record the reg plate of every car that passes the camera & check it against Police interest markers on databases. If found they flag it up to the operator. The car isn't then monitored until it passess another camera whatever distance that is away (the cameras won't necessarily be in sight of each other). It is the passing of fixed points that registers movement, not you being watched all the time. Like a Police officer at every junction noting cars that go by. Software of course will exist to throw up anomalies such as dual movements of vehicles (rung cars) & to search for the movements of vehicles that are of interest to Police for investigative purposes, but this is likley to be limited in access as are large scale searches on the PNC. Why would they wait for 5 years ? If you say "because they can" well they could of course wait for 5 years now then, so what difference again have cameras made there ? Edited by livvy |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 05:40 | |||
Which of those were jailed because of ANPR cameras ? Why is ANPR going to make that more likely not less ? Why are today's Police responsible for the behaviour of yester years ? Are you to blame for the past crimes of British colonialism ? Is current Germany responsible for Hitler's actions ? Come come now. Edited by livvy |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 05:52 | |||
Because they might have a lot more "crime" to process. |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 05:57 | |||
That's not the point: the point is that the British police do not have an unblemished record and substantial miscarriages of justice have taken place. The laziness and completeness of the coverage are of great concern. My basic concern is this: the police have no business recording the movements of law-abiding citizens. What is your defence of that? |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 06:20 | |||
As was eluded earlier. There is no such thing as total security, there is no such thing as total freedom. It is a balancing act to provide safety & security whilst not impacting on our freedoms where possible. It is not a static thing, it has to be reviewed continually & adjusted to need. Our security needs addressing & our Police need to be more effective in combating both terrorism & crime. ANPR will help in that & improve efficiency/effectiveness. The benfefits to security & crime detection outweigh the impact on freedoms. In my view, we the public will feel the benefit of that security & more effective crime detection, far more than the negative, as you put it, of having our vehicles movements monitored. That monitoring will in my opinion have very little effect on the daily lives of the vast majority of the population. |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 06:28 | |||
I supposed this is just a coincidence, then?
Yeah, like that happens. |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 06:31 | |||
Jawohl, mein herr. These benefits and impacts have been assessed by whom, exactly? Oh, the police? Well, that's alright then! Why ARE the police keeping these records of law-abiding motorists for five years? |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard Joined: 02-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 06:34 | |||
REALLY? What is this, then? Relevant quote:
Every 400 yards? |
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Ciao,
Spokey |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 06:52 | |||
No mention of ANPR in your link.
But that's the benefit it offers without the cost. It can't physically be done with officers, but can with cameras. |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 29-December-2005 at 06:55 | |||
Big difference between 400yds & 1 inch. 400yds isn't necessarily in sight of & is only talked about for motorways. At 400yds apart vehicles will not be in sight at all times, but they record reg plates as they pass the fixed points. The same with petrol stations etc, they would only record them there, not move with the vehicle. Edited by livvy |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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