BIG Brother Has arrived--NOW

livvy wrote: The benfefits to security & crime detection outweigh the impact on freedoms.

Jawohl, mein herr. These benefits and impacts have been assessed by whom, exactly? Oh, the police? Well, that's alright then!

Why ARE the police keeping these records of law-abiding motorists for five years?

spokey wrote: livvy wrote: That's not how the ANPR cameras work though. They will not cover every inch of the road & vehicles are not "monitored" between cameras. What they do is record the reg plate of every car that passes the camera & check it against Police interest markers on databases. If found they flag it up to the operator. The car isn't then monitored until it passess another camera whatever distance that is away (the cameras won't necessarily be in sight of each other). It is the passing of fixed points that registers movement, not you being watched all the time. I supposed this is just a coincidence, then?

No mention of ANPR in your link.

spokey wrote: livvy wrote: Like a Police officer at every junction noting cars that go by. Yeah, like that happens.

But that's the benefit it offers without the cost. It can't physically be done with officers, but can with cameras.

spokey wrote: livvy wrote: The benfefits to security & crime detection outweigh the impact on freedoms. Jawohl, mein herr. These benefits and impacts have been assessed by whom, exactly? Oh, the police? Well, that's alright then! Why ARE the police keeping these records of law-abiding motorists for five years?

Again that is a public decision, with which party they vote for based on their policies.

Which party in power will not be considering this though?

Have you an assessment that shows that general publci opinion of the majority is against such a move ?


Edited by livvy

spokey wrote: livvy wrote: Big difference between 400yds & 1 inch. 400yds isn't necessarily in sight of & is only talked about for motorways. At 400yds apart vehicles will not be in sight at all times, but they record reg plates as they pass the fixed points. The same with petrol stations etc, they would only record them there, not move with the vehicle. Please, livvy, this is pure sophistry on your part: what can happen in 400 yards on a motorway that would require an ANPR camera at that interval?

Car stop & occupants get out.

spokey wrote: AND WHY ARE THEY KEEPING THE RECORDS OF LAW-ABIDING, TAX-PAYING MOTORISTS AT ALL? Let alone for five years?

Because it provides the optimal balance of effeciency & reasonableness for the system I'd imagine. The bigger the database & with all vehicles covered the more effective the search can be. Most reg plates will be unused data, but if you miss any, that could be the important one for your search a year or two down the line in an investigation. At the time of recording the importance of a single reg plate for future investiagtons can't be pre-determined. But if you have them all the data will be there.

spokey wrote: livvy wrote: Because it provides the optimal balance of effeciency & reasonableness for the system I'd imagine. The bigger the database & with all vehicles covered the more effective the search can be. Most reg plates will be unused data, but if you miss any, that could be the important one for your search a year or two down the line in an investigation. At the time of recording the importance of a single reg plate for future investiagtons can't be pre-determined. But if you have them all the data will be there. So that's OK, is it? Because it's convenient for the police, we should all be spied upon? What is reasonable about keeping record of the movement of every citizen for five years?

As has already been said it's for society to decide at the ballot box.
We elect the governments that implement such things, in our names.

It is also not what I think or you think as individuals, but what measures society is willing to accept in order to strike that balance of security & freedom.

Where the information held is of most use will be for the most serious events.
If your child is abducted & the Police locate & arrest a suspect the following day in a car, then the search of that vehicles movements may provide valueable leads that help in the safe recovery of that child.

Where Police identify a terrorsist cell & the vehicles they are using, , long depth searches of prior vehicle movements for those vehicles could be instrumental in identifying their movements & others related to their activities. The several years of data could be very useful in these enquiries because people don't become terrorsists overnight.

Now in both cases these vehicles would not have been identified as target vehicles prior to Police's first contact with the people concerned, but the search facility available could be instrumental in saving of further lives. As the need to record those particular vehicles movements couldn't be pre-determined. If every vehicle is covered, then it ensures that they will be there. The millions of other vehicles that are of no interest just lay on file, which is not going to affect the users of those vehicles adversely.


Edited by livvy

livvy wrote: As has already been said it's for society to decide at the ballot box. We elect the governments that implement such things, in our names.

Hehehe.. As I've said before, it doesn't appear that the general public have any say in what happens.. 

If we are to stop this madness we need first to address the electoral system.  That reform will never happen though as it will knock the current government out of power.  By rights they shouldn't be in power now