E36. M50 wont start |
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Posted: 13-December-2008 at 22:25 |
Hi, Im new here and to BMW's. I recentlybought an E63 with M50 non vanos engine and ran it for a couple of days then it would not start, it spins over but that's all. After letting a garage look at it it was showing unknown fault so the alarm ect was removed and another ECU tried but nothing. On towing it home we put it in gear and it fired up no problem but wont run under 1000rpm hence why it wont start, Iv replaced the Idle Speed Control Valve to see if it was that but hence no. Has anyone any idea where I should look next please?
Many thanks Brian |
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paddy_d2k2
Senior Member II Joined: 01-March-2006 Location: Co. Kildare Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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I had a similar problem recently and turned out to bre the fuel pump. Welcome to the forum BTW. Cheers Paddy Edited by paddy_d2k2 |
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E36 318iS Coupe
E36 318i Convertible (Gone but not forgotten) E46 325 Ci M Sport |
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks Paddy, I will strip the pump out and have a look. I did try the dreaded easy start to see if it would try to fire but nothing, it's annoying when the garage cannot find whats wrong and the cars old so not worth paying out lots of money on I wont let it put me off yet though as im sure they are great cars when they are running
Brian |
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paddy_d2k2
Senior Member II Joined: 01-March-2006 Location: Co. Kildare Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Try the continuity on the pump first, and see if there is voltage on the wire when you unplug it. If there is power in the wire but no continuity on the pump then its the pump. Aso you should here the pump priming when the ignition is turned on. HTH Paddy |
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E36 318iS Coupe
E36 318i Convertible (Gone but not forgotten) E46 325 Ci M Sport |
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Well Iv checked the pump today and there was no power to it so went to the fuse and again no power? so I took power to the fuse from elsewhere and the pump started working but the car still wont start
My next questions are: where does the pump fuse get it's power from (the hynes manual is useless) and should the air flow meter near the air filter click continual when I put power on the pump fuse? Sorry to be a pain with this but if I dont get it running soon Iv decided to cut my loses and scrap it which is a shame as it is a good car apart from the above.. Thanks Brian |
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MBW1
Senior Member I Joined: 12-June-2008 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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The problem is the DME relay. This controls the ignition and the injectors,
and provides power to the fuel pump relay. There are two or three relays on the side of the fuse box. You need to replace the middle one which is normally white. I you're handy with a voltmeter, pull the reklay out and check for voltage on terminals 30 and 86. If you have power, refit the relay and check that relay pin 87 has power (ignition on for these tests). If it doesn't, it's dead. |
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I don't have a carbon footprint. I drive everywhere.
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MBW1
Senior Member I Joined: 12-June-2008 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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So you can find the relay, look at the fuse box on the passenger side rear
corner of the engine bay. The three relays are on the engine side of the fuse box and are visible with the fuse box lid on. They often have a black cover. The one nearest the front is the fuel pump relay. the middle one is the DME relay and the back one is the lambda probe relay. It has five pins. 86 is battery power, 30 is for the fuel pump relay feed, 87a is switched battery, 85 is the ECU's DME relay controller and 87 powers the injectors. Edited by MBW1 |
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I don't have a carbon footprint. I drive everywhere.
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks for the info Iv never been on such a helpfull site
Had a quick look in the fuse box and the white one is at the front so a little confused on that but at least I know what they do now so that helps.. Brian |
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MBW1
Senior Member I Joined: 12-June-2008 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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The fuel pump relay has four pins, the DME relay has five.
It's a couple of years since I looked at a non vanos E36. |
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I don't have a carbon footprint. I drive everywhere.
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MBW1
Senior Member I Joined: 12-June-2008 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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Well?
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I don't have a carbon footprint. I drive everywhere.
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Sorry Iv been sorting out xmas and Im now redundent (one of the many) anyway I replaced the Fuel pump and DME relays as the were cheap but Im not sure the DME has power. I think this comes from 18 fuse but I cannot find where the power is fed from, I have to admit Im begining to think it wont run again unless it goes to a dealer at £100 an hour which I cannot do so it' looks like it may be sold as a non runner or I will strip parts off to sell and scrap the rest. Shame as it's not a bad car and a good engine. If the service light is at red does this effect anything? Its got to be said that I would have like to try a BMW for a change but if this one goes I would be unlikely to buy onother. Brian Edited by xl426 |
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Iv decided to give the car one last shot so Iv sent for a fuel pump (dont know why but will change anyway), If I can trace the power to the DME there carnt be much more that stop it running below 1000 revs? So keep your fingers crossed for me..
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paddy_d2k2
Senior Member II Joined: 01-March-2006 Location: Co. Kildare Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Not sure if this will help at all, but I heard that the LAMDA sensor when it goes, causes a lot of running problems between idle and about 3000 RPM and possibly starting. If you are driving above 3000rpm regularly you will not notice any problem really but when driving at normal cruising type speeds is where the LAMDA regulates the air / petrol mixture. By the sounds of your problem, the pump has power and so too does the DME relay. Did you pull out the back seat and turn on the ignition and hear the pump buzz for 2 - 3 seconds then stop, then try start the car? You should hear the pump buzz when priming ans buzz when the car is running. |
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E36 318iS Coupe
E36 318i Convertible (Gone but not forgotten) E46 325 Ci M Sport |
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xxcharlie27
Newbie Joined: 22-October-2008 Location: Co. laois Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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hi was reading your thread don't give up on it cos it could be something simple try going back from the start with a few minor checks - the DME power comes from a connection box in behind the glove box (nearly sure) does it turn over normal or is it a bit slow to turn over & when u pull started it did u push the accelerator & what exactly happened --- an unknown fault code could be a wire disconnected had that problem myself the small red wire on the top of the battery terminal was loose what is ur car a 1992 320 or different & what milage |
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks for th ehelp guys as I need it, When we towed it back from the garage I got my son to try it in gear and it fired up but cut out as if you turn the ignition off when revs dropped to1000, we tried this a couple of times with same results but above 1000rpm the car sounds fine, I checked the fuel pump which did not seem to be running and still doesnt but on removing it and powering it from the battery it was ok. So I have replaced the DME and Fuel Pump Relays (although not sure what order these are in as the DME was at the front not in the middle) but this could have been the garage messing, 18 fuse which goes to the middle relay (DME) has no power (Still have not heard the pump running). All the wiring behind the glove box is now on the floor. So will look closer at that as the garage cut the wires for the alarm ect in case it was those stopping it. The car is a 92 320i and turns over fine but makes no attempt to fire, I know it's something small and simple as the car ran fine for 2 days then just would not start. Milage is 100000+ I think, as Iv said I have noticed that the service/inspection light is showing red (overdue) but I could find no reference to this? I have got a replacement pump coming as Iv noted that there seems to be a lot of problems with these on the forum so was changing it just in case the pressure is low. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP Brian Edited by xl426 |
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paddy_d2k2
Senior Member II Joined: 01-March-2006 Location: Co. Kildare Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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I doubt the service lights have anything to do with it to be honest. Seems a bit overkill that the garage cut out all the alarm wires etc......can't see the point of that myself...... You were saying the car ran but cut out when dropped below 1000rpm, did the garage check the pressure control valve? Did they check the O2 sensor, or do a diagnostic? I see you had the idle control valve changed, you have the relays changed, new fuel pump on way, can't remember, did you say there was power going to the pump? |
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E36 318iS Coupe
E36 318i Convertible (Gone but not forgotten) E46 325 Ci M Sport |
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Hi Paddy, sorry but I only get on here at weekends as I work away, the garage did the diagnostic but it came up as fault unknown, I dont know if they checked the other items, I will try to fit the pump this w/end weather permitting.
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xl426
Newbie Joined: 13-December-2008 Location: Tonbridge Kent Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Well finally got the DME and Fuel relays powered and the pump running, done checks on everything else now and found that the crankshaft censor is reading '0' and found a broken wire on it. Iv ordered a new one and hopefully I should hear the tones of a M50 reving up I hope - I am right that the crank censor controls the spark arnt I...... Brian |
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rebel.ranter
Groupie Joined: 30-July-2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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The crankshaft controls the spark, timing fuel delivery along with the camshaft sensor. I recently replaced my camshaft sensor, it will run (badly) without a camshaft sensor but starting is hot and miss.
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1996 320iC:
2002 525iA Sport: |
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paddy_d2k2
Senior Member II Joined: 01-March-2006 Location: Co. Kildare Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Sounds like you are on the road to recovery alright, delighted to hear you are close to running!!! Does it need a crank sensor or just repair the wire? Probably better getting it all done anyway for piece of mind! Did you get a new pump fitted as well or did the old pump prime when thre relays powered? Paddy |
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E36 318iS Coupe
E36 318i Convertible (Gone but not forgotten) E46 325 Ci M Sport |
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