E60 V8 Engine management fault - FIXED! |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Posted: 04-June-2009 at 08:28 |
Guys Driving to work this morning, car would have just got up to temperature at this point and the engine management light came on. Light had previously gone out on engine start up. Parked the car at usual spot, turned engine off and opened the bonnet, don't really know why as I wasn't expecting to see anything obvious and sure enough there was nowt obvious. Re-started the engine, light stayed on and there a distinctive wobble from idle and the idle was higher, 750 rpm than the usual 500 rpm idle. Wobble/slight rough idle soon died away and idled quietly but still high at 750 rpm. Air con was not on. I cannot tell engine temp as there is no temp gauge in the E60. Local garage will try and diagnose it for me tomorrow afternoon but has anyone got any thoughts on what it might be? Appart from usual suspects of O2 sensors, crank sensor, cam sensors, MAF, engine temp sensor....... Car hasn't missed a beat in the 14 months that I have owned it. Car is 5 years old this month and has done a smudge under 46,000 miles. Thanks Andrew Edited by Andrew Rolland |
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Hasso
Senior Member I Joined: 15-August-2007 Location: Kumla Sweden Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Well this is no time to guess , I think only a diagnos could give help to find it out. It s to much differnet faultys who could give this problem.
I get the yellowlight on my 540 fore 2 weeks ago. Camshaftsensor have indicated 78 times, and becuse it regulates the injektiontiming I get a out of limitregulation on additive adapationvalues on the same bank. I have not notice anything wrong at all. I reset the codes and order e new sensor. I reset the codes when the engine was running and it shake 2 or 3times and the engine runs smoother then before, when the yellow light is on the engine runs on locked addativevalues I take out the car fore a hard drive and no codes comes back When I drive 45 kilometer to BMW in normal speed and rpm to get the sensor, I get new camshaftsfaulty code 3 times on the same rpmlimit as before but dont notice anything wrong at all. Change the sensor OK after a long weekend trip 900 km. http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bloggbilder/00016020_s100. jpg http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bloggbilder/00016021_s100. jpg
Edited by Hasso |
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BR Hasso
BMW 540T 2001 6 speed. BMW 316G (biogas) -1998 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bilder.asp?bil=40895 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bmw.asp?bil=45700 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bmw.asp?bil=40865 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bmw.asp?bil=45749 |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Thanks I suspected that it could be anything and that I can't tell what it is until diagnostics. If I were a betting man I'd bet on a cam sensor.... I suppose I was really after a thought if someone had come across a similar V8 E60 fault. I've cleared it with the boss to get away early tomorrow pm to get it checked. Will keep you posted Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Now at home, light stayed on when started to drive home. Most faults with my E39 when they first appeared would appear, go away, come back, go away then come back and eventually stay until fixed but this one is obviously persistant. Handbook says that "exhaust emissions values have deteriorated" so I'm guessing it is a faulty sensor. I'm not over fuelling as I'm getting good fuel consumption considering the heat, use of air con and towing or all three at once. If I rev the engine while stationary, the revs drop but only to 1000 rpm and then very slowly drop to 750 rpm and not the 500 rpm usual idle. Certainly made he haw difference driving home performance wise, she pulled cleanly and smoothly (and still chuffin' quickly!) to 6,500 rpm but by that time I had exceeded the speed limit in 2nd gear and had to back of a bit, ahem, cough. Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Went to local garage. Their diagnostic machine was able to detect that there was a fault but the machine couldn't read the fault. They are getting a Diagnostic specialist in on Monday to interogate it further. Mechanic did say he suspected that it was only running on 7 cylinders due to uneven idle. When I said I didn't notice a difference in performance he said that I probably wouldn't due to there being 7 still firing fine. He reckons it is either a coil, plug or injector. He also said I shouldn't drive it much if there is unburnt fuel coming out of one of the cylinders as the Cats wouldn't like it much! Car has now started making weird engine bay noise. Only happens on idle Noise captured on camera phone so apologies in advance for sound and vision quality. Video 1 Noise from within engine bay. At first I thought it was from the area around the belts but I'm not convinced sounds more like from the back of the engine. Video 2 lets yo hear that the noise goes when engine is revved and it was at this point I heard the engine hit a rev limited which promted video 3. Video 3 you can firstly hear the noise which then dissapears as the revs rise and I can't rev it past 5000 rpm. Is the noise and lack of rev range due to the above fault? Andrew
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Hasso
Senior Member I Joined: 15-August-2007 Location: Kumla Sweden Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Well shore its not a bird under the plasticcover :) It could be a drivebelttensiorwheel, waterpump, servopump or something like that. Some intake airleak have a noise like this on M54 if a pipe gets cracks connected to the airfilterbox. I be shore you notice if you drive on 7 cylinders think your enginge runs fine at all 8 what is possible to hear on the wideos. And if a coil or plug is defect, the DME close down the petrol to that cylinder just becuse to save the cats, I think the Mechanic dont know how the DME and fuel system works in a BMW. :) You should get BMW/Inpa ediabas and an old laptop so you can do your own diagnos it works in BMW cars up to 2004/2005. |
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BR Hasso
BMW 540T 2001 6 speed. BMW 316G (biogas) -1998 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bilder.asp?bil=40895 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bmw.asp?bil=45700 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bmw.asp?bil=40865 http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bmw.asp?bil=45749 |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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I had a poke about after posting the above videos on Friday pm. On idle after removing all the plastic covers, using a screwdriver to listen the the engine, hear all 8 injectors ticking away which makes me think fuel was going in to all 8 cylinders. I would agree with Hasso in that the BMW being smart and all would shut off the fuel to one cylinder. It wasn't a BMW tech/mechanic. Will wait and see. Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
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Garage phoned to say that they have fixed the fault. They could not see a specific fault in the ECU and cleared the ECU, light went out and took car for drive and to quote the mechanic "that's some scary car". Light had not re-appeared. Mechanic and specialist put it down to just a glitch in the ECU software and that I should just watch and see what happens. Will collect the car later and see what's what. Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
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Car picked up and drove home fine, think it was slightly smoother than before and idle was no problem. When in P and revving it, it will still only rev to 5,000 rpm. Is this normal? I don't think I have ever revved it when in P to those limits. Red line on the road when tramping... Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Hmm Drove to work this morning. Car would rev to red line when driving so I guess it's a stationary rev limit thing at 5,000 rpm so that's that worry over. Engine management light went out and remained out after each time starting so that's that worry over. Just before I was parking I could hear the noise again that you can hear in the above videos. D'oh! Parked the car and it was idling like a tractor again. Rev engine and it's fine and sometime on the revs settling the idle is o.k. other times. No warning lights on dash. Anyone got any suggestions? Coils? Spark plugs? Andrew
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jetsetwilly2000
Really Senior Member II Joined: 10-December-2003 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 701 |
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Bloody modren cars, could be anything! But it sounds mechanical to me, so not a plug or coil (at least not directly). Could be some clever valvey thing that I wouldn't know about, but sounds like a belt tensioner or some other rotating thing packing up. If it was an old viva I'd say water pump!...
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Andrew Rolland
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Aye I agree with you, but would that be related to the uneven idle?
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Andrew Rolland
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Car going back to same garage tomorrow. On contacting them again today, I was told that they found two fault codes in the ECU yesterday but they could not tell what they meant. They called local BMW dealer who could not identify the fault codes either. Car is getting another diagnostic reading done tomorrow so we'll see if any other fresh fault codes appear even though no light is on the dash. Done a bit of diggin' on t'interweb and I've found a guy who had a X5 (but I'll not hold that against him) with the same symptoms which turned out to be a spark plug at fault. Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Light came back on last night. Back to garage. Fault codes obtained 32 3 27 2D and 32 3 27 2C. Means nothing to the diagnostic machine the garage is using. Don't suppose anyone knows the fault codes do they? Car is booked into Harry Fairbairn (Glasgow) to look at it on Tuesday. Got a works van for Friday to Monday. Thanks Andrew |
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540 V8
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Modern technology ay? Hope you get it sorted once and for all! As a side note, the Mercedes Sprinter vans don't rev over 3000rpm when not in gear so it's a limiter designed to protect the engine I would think it's the same in your case. As long as it revs when you are thrashing it in gear then all seems fine, I'd not worry. Good luck with the car. Mike |
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Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
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Peter Fenwick
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The trouble with modern cars is that they are so damn complicated that fixing a problem like this requires all the proper diagnostic equipment plus a healthy dose of experience. I wouldn't even know where to start with an E60. One for a good speciallist IMO. |
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Stone-IslandV8
Really Senior Member II Joined: 31-January-2003 Location: North Somerset Status: Offline Points: 3015 |
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Probably not it at all but sounds remarkably similar to the noise I got with the knackered PCV.
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Gentlemen I may not have a brain but I do have an idea
Past; E39 540T/E46 328CI/ E39 535/ E39 520/ E36 M3/ E36 318iS jet black Mtech/ E46 320d/ E36 318iS diamond black/ E36 318iS blue Mtech kit |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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A faulty PCV would cause the engine to produce exhaust gasses which are not the norm, hence put the light on in the first place. You might be on to something Sir. To me it sounds like an air noise rather than a rotating part. The source of the noise is also difficult to pin point. It might be from the back of the engine, where I think the PCV or equivalent E60 bit is located or it sounds like it is coming from the front by the belts. Andrew |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Yeah you are quite right. Going to BMW on Tuesday. I'm working this weekend so I can't get much of a poke about it. I'm sure the PCV is buried away beind the inlet manifold about 30 mm in front of the bulkhead making access tricky...... Andrew |
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Stone-IslandV8
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When I was getting the noise on mine it sounded at first like it was coming from the front of the engine but with closer inspection it was def coming from the back. PCV on the E39 V8 is buried at the back by the bulkhead...tricky bit is getting the torx bolt in to undo the screws.
Mine didnt do it all the time and performance certainly didnt seem affected. Might be a red herring but worth thinking about. |
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Gentlemen I may not have a brain but I do have an idea
Past; E39 540T/E46 328CI/ E39 535/ E39 520/ E36 M3/ E36 318iS jet black Mtech/ E46 320d/ E36 318iS diamond black/ E36 318iS blue Mtech kit |
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