Scamera poll

Thanks for that -- I'll start pestering my MP immediately.

No doubt he will be very grateful to you.

alpinanut wrote: The numbers on the poll say it all for me , I am unable to vote yet, but if I could I would join the majority.  I also feel no need to argue my case.

Your not getting my message though.
It's no good looking at a poll here & thinking comfortably that you have a lot of support, so things will turn out how you want. The majority here isn't the scoring that the government is seeing. You've got to wake up & look outside before it's too late. It's people feeling they don't have to argue their case that plays into the hands of others. It will all have passed you by before you even have time to join the debate. You'll be looking back thinking how the hell did that get by us.

They can even put speed cameras in cat's eyes on the road.
Are you really going to base a vote for a government just on the speed camera issue alone ?



Edited by livvy

Livvy

I'm very grateful for your posts on here, looks like I've even got one more candidate for the IAM from this thread.

I realise your going to get bored eventually repeating yourself over and over, and apart from a few "nitpicking" things, I know your correct.

I don't have permission to reproduce this, but I'm sure the IAM will forgive me, in the context of the thread , and a lot of people out there , me included, never thought we'd see this, in print !

" One major objective is to increase the influence that the IAM brings to bear on parliamentarians, in order to promote our road safety mission"

Add that to the anti scamera press release earlier in the year, actually in conjunction with Mr Brunstrom, I actually think the IAM are beginning to listen to their membership.

I hope you'll stick around Livvy

I've never been convicted for speeding. 

Livvy, great debate but its past my bedtime as I must be up for work at 5.30AM. If you look at my post early in the debate you will see I agree there is a need for cameras but its gone beyond using them as a safety measure, there are to many factors involved for the authorities to just keep throwing cameras up everywhere, driving standards are terrible and there is not enough being done to improve them or to police the poor drivers that surround you everytime we go on the road. I'm sorry but I can never believe that constantly hammering the motorist with the speeding fines is going to improve things on our roads. Anyway goodnight hope to see you on here again. Steve.

Realise, I hope you'll stick around.

I need all the help I can get on here to try and convince these guys to take the training thats on offer to them, and to join the groups that hopefully can start to make a difference to safety policy.

livvy wrote: That of course is your opinion that you are safe travelling in excess of our speed limits. Who has tested you in that assertion & what were their qualifications ?

where in my post did i say it was my opinion.

i have driven for over 22 years on the road in every type of car , lorry , van , bus , motorcycle, i love to drive.
just this weekend i have been to brush up on my high speed driving, car control in snow and on black ice ,also hazard perception and to see if my skill has improved from last time or got worse.
avoidence control and awareness.
in 1999 i had a 88% pass rate.
in 2004 i had a 95% pass rate.
every aspect of day to day driving is involved and even extreame conditions.
i have road race , track race ,off road rally and cross in cars and motorcycles.
i do this because i want to be the best and safest driver i can be at all times ,not just when i passed my driving test.
there are other things i do that i cannot and will not put on a web site forum or anywhere else.

i have never had a my fault accident, i have been knocked off my bike 3 times by people saying sorry i didnt see you, it was daytime clear weather and i was stopped at the times in question, in my car i have been rear ended 2 times by people saying i didnt realise you was slowing even though my brake light were working fine.
all the above was below 20mph and yet i am as you say a criminal for speeding.
i have never caused a accident either.

my qualifications are for me and me alone so i can be a better and more skillful operator of a dangerous weapon we call viehcles.
i dont do the thing i do to bragg or for anyone else for that matter and i do not justify my qualifications to anyone ,as i said they are for me.

read this post of mine from another.

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=23918&T PN=2
i live everyday with what a traffic accident can do but it was not speed that was the cause.

the missus has said to me if i go out anymore than i do i may as well not come back , if i keep trying to improve myself in the things i like to do i will become somebody else.

what are your qualifications ?

we want more speed cams!!! lol

livvy you said " It's not about me talking about me interracting with traffic at high speeds, I've said I obey the speed limits. It is you talking about you being able to do it safely."

if this is not personal. the word YOU that you typed in your post does this and is directed at me.

i am not repeating myself , it seems to me you read what you want to read and answer questions with questions , you use government and government funded figures.

i have driven in full view of the police and with the police on british roads at high speeds.
i did not say i only had track training , that is you not reading my post correctly.

what are your qualifications to justify what you say and what are your driving qualifications for you to be able to prove all you say is correct.
i have never said speeding is right and i do not condone anyone useing anything that they are not fully qualified to do so.

answer a question without asking a question as the answer as this just goes around in circles.
this will be my last post on this subject as you do not seem to grasp that no one is right or wrong , yes even you .

and if speed cameras are about safety and not money, why not remove the fines and just up the points to say anything over a % you get 6 points , caught twice and you are banned.

i dont think anyone can say they have never gone over the speed limit as speedometers are and have not always been accurate.
you are saying you dont speed and never have because you may legaly may not be able to because of your job.
1mph over the limit is still classed as speeding and i can honestly say i dont believe you .
thankyou for the debate and i have more important things to concentrate on than somebody who thinks the are always correct.

skull wrote: if this is not personal. the word YOU that you typed in your post does this and is directed at me.

Please read what I said.
I said " It's not a personal attack on you" , the meaning it concerns you (in the pertinent parts) but I am not attacking you on this issue, I am enquiring.

i am not repeating myself , it seems to me you read what you want to read and answer questions with questions , you use government and government funded figures.

Please see above, with regards to who is reading what words & deleting words to get their own interpretation on it.

The hard numbers are undeniable, they are not just government figures.
The spin only comes from the interpretation that people put on them. Not the numbers.

i have driven in full view of the police and with the police on british roads at high speeds. i did not say i only had track training , that is you not reading my post correctly.

I didn't say you only had track training,I infact said when I was talking about people spending money on cars instead of on road training that I specifically wasn't talking about you, but you still don't say where you have done on road training & who with qualified to teach it at speeds in excess of our limits. I took it as read that you have done on road training with someone qualified to teach & examine you in it at speeds upto our limits. I've applauded it. It's the beyond our limits I'm talking about.

You still haven't given any details of where you have had this instruction & test by someone competent & qualified to make that assessment. Being in a car will a Policeman doesn't cover that. Or are you saying "in riddles" that you were instructed by a fully qualified Police driving instructor to drive above our limits & then examined by a qualified Police driving examiner. Is that it & where would that of been ?

what are your qualifications to justify what you say and what are your driving qualifications for you to be able to prove all you say is correct.

What exactly do I need to be qualified in to ask the above question ?
What qualifications do I need to prove what is correct ?
I'm not being obstructive I'd like clarification on what particular issue my qualifications would help in proving. If they will help in that then perhaps I will.

i have never said speeding is right and i do not condone anyone useing anything that they are not fully qualified to do so.

So if you have driven in excess of our speed limits, that means that at the time you were doing so it was for Fire, Police or Ambulance purposes.

answer a question without asking a question as the answer as this just goes around in circles. this will be my last post on this subject as you do not seem to grasp that no one is right or wrong , yes even you .

I suggest the questions need to be more direct, clear & pertinent.
As I have asked about "Have you been tested by a qualified examiner to drive safely in excess of our limits ?"

As far as the law is concerned with speeding it is very black & white (right & wrong). Unless it is for a Police, fire or ambulance purposes it is illegal.

and if speed cameras are about safety and not money, why not remove the fines and just up the points to say anything over a % you get 6 points , caught twice and you are banned.

Come come now.
Can you imagine the uproar that would cause because of the hardship. (Punishment fitting crime & all). The vast majority of people who get speeding convictions I am quite sure would gladly pay double the fine to avoid the points (even if they are convinced it is about income generation). It is the points they really hate, it is them that hurt & worry them. For me personally it makes no odds because I stick to limits, but for others I doubt it. As I've said already & nobody came back on this point, the fact that points are issued at all is indicative of it not being about money, because your customer base disappears if they lose their licences. I mean your best customers (those doing say 30mph over a limit) can get banned in one hit. That is not a sound business plan if you want to make money from them.

Who else here would rather no fine & double points ?........honest answers welcome, cast your votes.

i dont think anyone can say they have never gone over the speed limit as speedometers are and have not always been accurate.

Speedos are not allowed to underread by law, they are allowed to overread. To that end speedo error is built in that works in your favour with keeping to limits.

thankyou for the debate and i have more important things to concentrate on than somebody who thinks the are always correct.

I've never said I am always correct or as somebody else said earlier perfect either. The perfect driver or even the perfect drive does not exist. You can't drive for any great length of time without making at least one small (if inconsequential) error.

I said I have an open mind, so educate me. Tell me where I'm wrong & offer good reasoning for it. I am big enough to accept it if you can convince me. If you decide not to take that path, then goodbye & thank you for the debate.


Edited by livvy