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B 7 VP 
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 04-November-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
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 Posted: 10-November-2005 at 13:11 |
THAT depends who is giving the stats!!! If its Brake-Transport 2000-Red Kens TFL-and MOST Scam partnerships its 100% speed.
If its North Wales Brainstrom from acpo(now succeeded by Policeman Hughes) - Bliars anti car Govt DFT its "Most".The Govt FUNDED university research programmes say 33%---------------What about the Other 67 % ???
The Police reports after all those 6 hour Road/Motorway closed CRIME!!!!!!!!! scenes say 7% due to excess speed ( biggest cause at 30%++ are due to lack of Attention) But the Scams dont record this--cos its not £££££ effective.
All in All, taxpayers Fund ALL-- the gathering of the stats which Govt use to prove whatever they wish to, so as to Brainwash the naive voters that they have solved every problem, and they CAN walk on water-- NO prob, just give em the Stats.
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SAFETYFAST
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 10-November-2005 at 07:49 |
What Bikers safe!!!!
Shurely shome mishtake 
It would certainly be good to know exactly what percentage of RTAs are attributed directly to exceding the speed limit.
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 10-November-2005 at 07:34 |
 skull wrote:
can we have a report on BMW drivers too  |
is that really a good idea!?!
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skull
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 20-April-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 640
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Posted: 10-November-2005 at 05:45 |
UPDATE
just read this ...
A government report called an "in depth study of motorcycle accidents" has found that only 3.5% of crashes involved vehicles exceeding the speed limit.
paul smith founder of safe speed road safety campaign said "While motorcyclists take a great deal of criticism for being reckless speeders, this report reveals almost all of them use speed safely."
this report was just published this week.
can we have a report on BMW drivers too
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just a little crazy.
My drive
E46 M3 COUPE [MAN]CARBON BLACK GREY LEATHER H/K 19"s LED REARS S/B.
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skull
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 20-April-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 640
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 16:06 |
Bryce wrote:
Like people who pull out from junctions in front
of bikes (as was mentioned, when the biker was doing 25mph and I belive
he was badly hurt, double that speed and have the same accident... The
biker maybe the best in the world but if he can't avoid a van pulling
out when he is doing 25mph what would happen at hight speeds? (not
suggesting your biker mate was bad/at fault in anyway)).
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the van did a wide birth turning left and crossed the white line as he was coming the other way and crashed into him with offside headlight that was already broken and body damage grabbed his hand off the grip severing his arm just below the elbow... he had ridden for 20 years with no accidents to his record or any other road offences.
i also have ridden for 22 years and been knocked off a few times by idiot drivers but it was never at speed always below 20mph, like a woman who turned right into me while i was next to her on a island, she was in the left hand lane marked left and straight over.
Peter Fenwick wrote:
I'll bet the number that are caused by speed and speed alone is very small.....however it is easy to catch speeders and it is a good way of making money
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as i said before in a post its 16-17% for accidents caused directly by speeding. we need to deal with the other 83% of causes.
B 7 VP wrote:
Skull--- my heart goes out to you both, --and my GREAT respect.
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thankyou mate but i didnt say it to get sympathy i was putting the fact that even tho she went though what she did she is not blinded by facts and figures put forward by the government, she even says why are no cameras outside schools , collages , shopping centers etc but put in places to gain the maximum amount of money from us. btw she has no motoring convictions but does speed when she thinks road and weather conditions permit.
her words i have just typed them.
also she adds why should she be made to feel a lesser person because she is in a wheelchair. by people moaning about disabled people having there own parking bays.
she didnt ask to be in a wheelchair at the age of 24
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just a little crazy.
My drive
E46 M3 COUPE [MAN]CARBON BLACK GREY LEATHER H/K 19"s LED REARS S/B.
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Stone-IslandV8
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 31-January-2003
Location: North Somerset
Status: Offline
Points: 3015
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 14:18 |
Bryce wrote:
I have never, yet come
across a "sneaky" camera or speed trap.
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Well IMO every non-mrked van with worthless civil servant sat in it at the side of the road with small window open IS sneaky.......as is sitting on a cattle bridge above a motorway...........as is plod sitting in his layby at the side of the motorway..............as is siting cameras behind tree foliage facing downwards at the bottom of steep inclines.......I could go on and also could give more than 1 location of a camera round my locality sited like that.
If the idea is not to gain revenue then explain this example to me on the A428 between Northampton and Warrington, a distance of approx 10 miles........ 3 miles outside N'pton is a SPECS camera, 4 miles further along is the 2nd SPECS camera and 4 miles further along at the entrance to a small village with a 30 mph limit is the third SPECS camera.
Approx 2/3 thru the village is a double-sided GATSO yet there is more often than not also a mobile camera van sat just before the GATSO on a blind bend.
The road in question IIRC has had 3 fatalities in 4 yrs. At the time of the cameras going up it was highlighted that the cause of the majority of crashes cam from vehicles pulling into the stream of traffic from a secluded layby along the final straight.
Police proudly state how many people have been caught by the cameras,fined & pointed yet the number of crashes has not been dropped.
Also, if there has to be cameras then I would suggest doing away with penalty points completely bar very excessive speed....say 30mph over limit on derestricted roads. Plus then use the fines to pay for better infrastructure for training, remove the cash going to the police and then we'll see how much interest plod take in the cameras.
Edited by Stone-IslandM3
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Gentlemen I may not have a brain but I do have an idea
Past; E39 540T/E46 328CI/ E39 535/ E39 520/ E36 M3/ E36 318iS jet black Mtech/ E46 320d/ E36 318iS diamond black/ E36 318iS blue Mtech kit
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B 7 VP
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 04-November-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 14:05 |
Bryce-agree with some comments ---which makes me angry that the Brainwashed Govt slime are not forced to attend RTA,s to witness the results of lack of a Suitable driving Course--before the test.Retests every 5 + years could be something else--WHY not?? MOT every year !!!.
I have attended many driving courses, over the years at my expense--NO big deal--just a petrol heads wish to be a Good driver-I know it HAS saved my life--and have the photo,s to prove it. The Govt/s are criminals to have ignored the ongoing training of drivers--Purely due to Politics--while pretending to be SO concerned about Road safety, Looks good--instant take the heat off other subjects--while we have to live with the constant threat to drivers jobs and futures.
In all the years of woffle on road safety--ALL Talk and NO action from the Govt who take our 45 BILLION £££, and give nothing but agro back.
Skull--- my heart goes out to you both, --and my GREAT respect.
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SAFETYFAST
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:57 |
..I'v got a luvverly patchwork quilt....
(sorry.)
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:52 |
Bryce wrote:
I think blanket "cameras are evil" comments are daft, I think blanket "cameras are good" comments are also daft. They have a place but that place isn't always in the crusher.
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Any blanket comments tend to be daft, a bit like all BMW drivers are.......
Speed cameras opposite schools are OK in my book, but then you seldom find them there.
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Bryce
Groupie
Joined: 20-February-2005
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 99
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:43 |
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Well I do agree that we need more Police in cars doing their jobs
and I would MUCH prefer to see more cops than more speed camera
for ALL of the reasons that you all mention.
But the M25 has variable limits with cameras to catch those who disobey
those limits yet many peple whinge about them, I think they are a good
idea bceause the road does flow better when people obey the variable
rules.
I don't think (and neither do most of you it appears) that the standard
of driving is good in this country so why in hell would you want to
rasie the limit on the motorway? So that these drivers with
little ability can carry there skills at higher speeds? that is mad!
Before limits can be increased everyone needs to be at a higher standard, that means education.
I would love every speed camera to be moved and for me to be able to
drive as fast as I wanted but I also understand it isn't safe because
of other people. Like people who pull out from junctions in front
of bikes (as was mentioned, when the biker was doing 25mph and I belive
he was badly hurt, double that speed and have the same accident... The
biker maybe the best in the world but if he can't avoid a van pulling
out when he is doing 25mph what would happen at hight speeds? (not
suggesting your biker mate was bad/at fault in anyway)).
So lets make the govement spend every penny of "profit" from cameras on
driver education, IAM etc. for everyone and refreshers every few
years. Then at least those that moan about cameras know the money
is for a good use rather than filling a drinks cabinet for the toffs.
I think blanket "cameras are evil" comments are daft, I think blanket
"cameras are good" comments are also daft. They have a place but
that place isn't always in the crusher.
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Bryce,
Volvo FL614/Saxon (1996)(HFRS).
BMW 525i SE touring (1992)
Kawasaki ZX6R F1 (1995)
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:37 |
Bryce wrote:
thepits wrote:
sorry Bryce, you're not going to convince me Speeding alone does not kill But inappropriate use of speed can!!  and that's where the problem lies. |
Yes 100% behind you. You are correct, my point is that most people don't understand what inappropriate speed is. 80mph in the rain, in rush hour on the motorway is inappropriate. Unless you don't have to deal with the resut (apart from being late due to the incovinence of the Police closing the motorway so we can try and save someone's life), in which case I'm sure it's fine...
I am sure we will never 100% agree, and I hope you never have to experiance the reasons why I have the opinons that I do. I really do hope that, for your sake. |
Bryce, I too hope that I never experiance on the public road what you have to deal with. I have in my small way dealt with similar instances - but on the race-track when I am marshalling!
The use of inappropriate speed, and the stupidity of drivers still applies there - but due to the extra safety precautions rarely ends up with such serious consequences!
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Cats know your every thought.
But don't care.
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:26 |
...and i dare say that your definition if inappropriate speed and mine are very different.
edit:KB - you spelld proper alright that time...
Edited by sleeper
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kbannon
Admin Group
E39 525i Sport Individual
Joined: 09-October-2002
Location: 64 Zoo Lane
Status: Offline
Points: 15508
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:23 |
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two words - inappropriate speed.
If this was tackled then fatalities would decrease overnight. However, it is pretty much impossible to monitor properly!
edit: I must realy lern how to spel proper
Edited by kbannon
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Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor
Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE
1997 E39 523i
2003 E39 525i Sport Individual
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 11:16 |
Bryce wrote:
[QUOTE=spokey]
a huge number of people say it's fine to do 85mph in the rain on a motorway and 99.9% of the time they get away with it. At some point the 0.01% of time will occur and it is very nasty.
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This is exactly the point why I don't like speed cameras. On many occaisions when it is foggy, the rain is very heavy or it is icey, it isn't even safe to do 70mph on a motorway. But cameras do not pick this up. However on the same stretch of road on a hot sunny day when it is quiet, you could drive at 80mph and not pose any more danger than driving at 70, however a speed will camera catch you. The other night I was passed by a bloke who was only doing about 60mph, the trouble is it was pitch black on a totally unlit road and it was raining so hard my wipers could hardly keep up. When he passed the spray from his car was like someone blasting the windscreen with a fire hose, however he hadn't broken the speed limit, and a speed camera would not have stopped him.
Speed cameras only look at one variable whereas accidents are caused by a whole range of different variables. How many accidents can be purely attributed to someone breaking the speed limit and not other factors like road conditions, alcohol, tiredness, driving too close etc?
I'll bet the number that are caused by speed and speed alone is very small.....however it is easy to catch speeders and it is a good way of making money.
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 09:36 |
Bryce wrote:
Although cars have increased in safety features in the last 30 or 40
years so have the number of cars but the driver training is the weak
point. So we have faster, stronger cars, but millions more of
them on a road system where people don't observe properly, don't
respect/consider others, and pick and choose which laws to
obey... Yeah what a good idea, lets let them go faster and not
enforce the limits. That's what you want is it? |
Actually, you are entirely wrong. I would happily endure an annual
license retest and I think the standard of driver training in the UK is
appalling for a first-world country.
I strongly advocate improved driver training: when my daughter is old
enough to earn her license, I will be funding skidpan days and
high-speed driver training for her. I try to do at least one track day
and one skidpan day a year so that I can remain sharp.
My problem with speed laws is that they achieve the exact opposite of
making people drive more safely: they are easy to enforce, generate
revenue and do absolutely NOTHING to encourage people to think about
the environment in which they are driving. All they make people do is
slow down (often unnecessarily and often catastrophically) when they
see a camera.
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Ciao,
Spokey
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 09:13 |
That's the way of the world... and your job.
I need to get my soap box out now!!!!
I am really pleased I pay my taxes to keep some pillock in whitehall that knows better than me how fast I should be driving on an empty country lane at 3am, or the M1 a 2am etc. when, generally the roads are empty or populated by more skilled drivers (professional drivers, truckers etc.)
It's also great that I am paying for a grey box that is far more qualified than an experienced traffic bab.
And I just love these community do-gooders with their pristine hi-viz jackets, state of the art radar guns, 6 foot field of view (old, retired, blind) who are better equipped to spot a stereotype than a speeding motorist! Aren't they doing a good job! MY ARS3!!
Variable limits must and should be the way forward for higher speed roads. This way authorities can then show a bit of flexibility with times (night time), traffic loading (also geographical- the SE vs. Lincolnshire!!) and prevailing conditions, all of which are monitored on our motorway network already!!
and to complete my rant, if that ars3, darling, thinks he is going to fit me with a satellite tracker, I am going to london to personally shove it where he usually sticks his seatpost!!!!!!!
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Bryce
Groupie
Joined: 20-February-2005
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 99
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 08:43 |
spokey wrote:
You're quite correct, of course. The safest thing of all is for us to
just sit in our houses. The world out there is inherently far too scary
for a sensible person.
Don't forget to get everything with a sharp edge out of the house as
well, lest you injure yourself with a blade and stock up a large supply
of food that can be eaten raw, because you can get shocked by
electricity and a gas fire could burn your house down.
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As I said, My collegues and I have to deal with the aftermarth of
RTC's. It's very easy to sit back and poo-poo my opinion but I am
100% sure that if you see some of the things we see/deal with you would
be more understanding of the need for people to at least respect
limits. But most people don't, a huge number of people say it's
fine to do 85mph in the rain on a motorway and 99.9% of the time
they get away with it. At some point the 0.01% of time will occur
and it is very nasty.
Although cars have increased in safety features in the last 30 or 40
years so have the number of cars but the driver training is the weak
point. So we have faster, stronger cars, but millions more of
them on a road system where people don't observe properly, don't
respect/consider others, and pick and choose which laws to
obey... Yeah what a good idea, lets let them go faster and not
enforce the limits. That's what you want is it?
Take the pi$$, I have seen enough to know the general public, on the
roads are not "good" enough to legally travel at 85mph because they are
not clever/educated enough to drive safely at our present limits.
Prove I'm wrong. Prove that trying to take a roof of a car when
the car is covered in bit's of the occupents and even though we can
tell they are dead, we still have to carry on until a docotr cert's
them dead, is fun. It isn't, it won't ever be.
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Bryce,
Volvo FL614/Saxon (1996)(HFRS).
BMW 525i SE touring (1992)
Kawasaki ZX6R F1 (1995)
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 08:12 |
Bryce wrote:
if the driver was traveling at a slower pace we might have
had two people alive. It's a big chance and a very huge amount of
the time you will get away with it.
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You're quite correct, of course. The safest thing of all is for us to
just sit in our houses. The world out there is inherently far too scary
for a sensible person.
Don't forget to get everything with a sharp edge out of the house as
well, lest you injure yourself with a blade and stock up a large supply
of food that can be eaten raw, because you can get shocked by
electricity and a gas fire could burn your house down.
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Ciao,
Spokey
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 07:51 |
But the law is hopelessly out of date. I'm not talking about the 30 limit, but the national speed limit was set years ago and is just too low. I drove up the M1 the other day at an indicated 80 -90mph. Was I being dangerous and irresponsible? was I endangering the lives of others? I don't think so. Oh and I have had advanced driver training with the IAM. Interestingly enough they were far less bothered about the speed you drove at and much more concerned about the important things like observation, concentration and attitude
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Bryce
Groupie
Joined: 20-February-2005
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 99
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Posted: 07-November-2005 at 04:46 |
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Skull,
A very sad turn of events and something that shouldn't happen to
anyone. Any RTC is unnecessary and anyone at fault involved
should be made to take advanced lessons, with the same offered to the
"not at fault party(s)".
How many people have, off their own back, taken further lessons,
advanced and so on to improve driving? It's a stupidly low number
and one that we (the public) should change, but we don't, we are too
lazy yet there are regonised orgs that will help improve your driving
for far less than it costs most people to learn to pass the DSA test.
If the money from speed cameras was used to subsidise this training or
to force people who break the law and get caught to take further
training then the roads would be a safer place. And if we decided
to improve ourselves then maybe we would be better/safer drivers, less
death/injurys and so on. So obviously everyone who complains
about any law/incident on the road and reads this post will sign up
with the IAM etc. to improve themselves. Yeah right, people will
just moan and moan and not do anything procative.
I read on another forum "If everyone stopped speeding then no one would
get caught and the camera partnerships would go bankcrupt" But
that means obeying the law and obviously you, me and everyone are
above that, after all it's only a road law.
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Bryce,
Volvo FL614/Saxon (1996)(HFRS).
BMW 525i SE touring (1992)
Kawasaki ZX6R F1 (1995)
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NO More New Scamera.s ????
