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Points: 237 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 325i cab power increase !!
    Posted: 09-November-2004 at 08:38

Fair enough, hat eating time!

Exactly how much difference does 6bhp make though?
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 18:14

Here you go! Before and after

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/tbfaq.asp
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Points: 2057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 07:59
The dyno results will only show the effect at WOT though - but at least it is evidance if done in the absence of other changes.

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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 07:31
i dont have copies of it as i have done that many differet additions i have not kept them all.
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 07:29
Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:

i have done.

fitted one on my own car and it made 6hp (although a little of this can be down to different heat temps etc etc)

they have been fitted to dozens of bmws, you only have to look on www.e36coupe.co.uk forums to see whats thought of them

Do you have dyno results to show the increase

If you do you could scan them in and let everyone see. 

I know that the modified throttle body that Alpina527 does for the 323/328 is very well thought of. If my bonus is as good as I hope I will be getting one along with the manifold early next year
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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 07:01

i have done.

fitted one on my own car and it made 6hp (although a little of this can be down to different heat temps etc etc)

they have been fitted to dozens of bmws, you only have to look on www.e36coupe.co.uk forums to see whats thought of them
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 06:54

Why doesn't someone try one and see what difference it makes?

That way we would no conclusively either way!
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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 04:47

its the case on nearly all bmw models of the recent era.

i know for a fact that the m20 and the m50 were hindered directly by the throttle body (and/or) inlet manifold, to lower insurance grouping.
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Points: 2057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 04:41
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

The throttle body is used to restrict the power on many engines. The Ford zetec engine for example and the old 16v 150bhp Vauxhall engine. Any engine which sees gains just from fitting individual throttle bodies must have some sort of restricition in the standard throttle body. Alpina527 sells them for the 6cyl 328 and 323 engines (and others) which are restricted by the manifold/throttle body.



I cannot comment on other cars, but you do not know if this is or isn't the case on the M20. Fitting individual throttle bodies is a significant change in the the whole physics of the inlet tract. You can't compare individual throttle bodies to this discussion.

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Points: 2057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 04:38
Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:

Ahh, its all in the wording.


Of course, this wont give you much top end power but when are people really after this on a road car ?



If I want to drive quickly, I will use high revs and WOT. If people are "not after this", then why do it at all?

Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:

what it does do is open the power band making more power throughout the rev range.



But you have not established that. I second the opinion that it just gives that impression by, at part throttle, allowing more air through for the same pedal position.

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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 04:21
Originally posted by GT6-M3 GT6-M3 wrote:

Ooh very nice :)

However, fact of the matter is that untill the TB becomes a restirction in it's own right, i.e. at WOT, you won't see any power increase.

The throttle body is used to restrict the power on many engines. The Ford zetec engine for example and the old 16v 150bhp Vauxhall engine. Any engine which sees gains just from fitting individual throttle bodies must have some sort of restricition in the standard throttle body. Alpina527 sells them for the 6cyl 328 and 323 engines (and others) which are restricted by the manifold/throttle body.
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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 04:03

thats wrong.

how come a ported head gives a wider power band ?
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Points: 237 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2004 at 03:20

No, that's all it'll give you.

The TB's not a restriction untill the engine's going quickly, so a bigger TB will only increase the top end.
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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2004 at 18:11

Ahh, its all in the wording.

Of course, this wont give you much top end power but when are people really after this on a road car ?

what it does do is open the power band making more power throughout the rev range.
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Points: 237 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2004 at 17:59

Ooh very nice :)

However, fact of the matter is that untill the TB becomes a restirction in it's own right, i.e. at WOT, you won't see any power increase.

You will however get more power for the same throttle opening, but that's not to be confused with having more power at a given engine speed.

Power isn't made miles away from the engine in the TB. It's made in the cylinder head and is more influenced by the tuned length of the induction system and the shape of the ports than the TB attached to it. However, everyone seems to think that big is best.

Unfortunately, if you did want to fit high lift/overlap cams, you'd probably find it necessary to ditch the plenum intake for individual TBs anyway as you'd find the car a real pig do drive around town without doing so.

Still, each unto their own.



Edited by GT6-M3
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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2004 at 10:47

a piccy to view whats done.

 
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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2004 at 10:45
i am yet to here of a single person who has said they dont.
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2004 at 10:43
Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:

in this case i dont think you fully understand the work of alpina527

the unit is ported quite extensivelly and i think he fits a new butterfly to fit the larger diameter.

.....and there are lots of people willing to vouch for the power increases that his throttle body yeilds.

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Points: 696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2004 at 07:40

in this case i dont think you fully understand the work of alpina527

the unit is ported quite extensivelly and i think he fits a new butterfly to fit the larger diameter.
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Points: 237 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2004 at 15:46

I also have yet to see any theory to back up the ported TB claim. If someone could explain to me why it should work, after I've explained why it shouldn't, I'd be much happier about the whole thing.

Also, what do you do to a TB that costs �120?

You can't remove any metal, or the butterfly wouldn't fit so other than getting some polish and rubbing that around the inside, which anyone could do, what's the process?

That probably all sounds a bit harsh, but if your theorys are sound, then there shouldn't be a problem posting them :)
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