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SBSD 
Groupie 
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
 Topic: E36 318ise Auto (M40) judderPosted: 12-February-2005 at 15:15 |
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Bit of a strange one this, as per topic title the car in question is an early E36 318i se Auto, (M40 lump). The motor runs as smoothe as a smoothe thing when cold, but as the needle on the temp gauge starts to move up slowly (starts just as it hits the top of the blue), I get a judder at standstill... Car pulls away nice and smoothe, drives lovely gearchanges feel fine and it pulls well (as well as an M40 can) I've given the ICV a good clean up (found an article on the net regarding that one) and no difference. Any ideas what to think about next? Any and all input appreciated.
Cheers. |
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 12-February-2005 at 18:30 |
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Ok, o2 sensor has been suggested as a possibility and that was my next line of attack anyway, also a clogged vacum hose has been named as a possibility. Anyone got any advance on that?
Cheers. |
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born-slippy
Newbie
Joined: 11-February-2005 Location: South Africa/UK Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Posted: 12-February-2005 at 18:38 |
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ICV doesnt always come back after a clean,so you might have to buy a new one and a knackered lambda will give you bad economy, so see what the economy like first before changing the probe.
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 12-February-2005 at 18:53 |
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Thanks for that, The ICV wasn't too bad inside to be honest, there was a fine even coating of carbon in the two hose connectors, but the gate inside wasn't bad at all and moveing freely. Not sure what to think about that... The economy doesn't seem at all bad, I did a 60 mile motoryway run last weekend which used about a quarter tank of fuel, seems fair to me. I just want to get to the bottom of this one asap and get it sorted, its really annoying. Edited by SBSD |
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neileg
Really Senior Member II 
Joined: 20-July-2004 Location: Northumberland Status: Offline Points: 638 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 03:20 |
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A knckered Lambda sensor is likely to cause stalling and surging rather than a judder.
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Cheers, Neil
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 07:45 |
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Neil, Surging is a better way of discribing it, yes. Like the car is trying to rev up a little and pull away of its own accord, being restricted by the fact that i have the brakes applied though it manifests as a judder as the car is unable to go anywhere... it certainly doesn't stall though. I think definitely the o2 sensor is the culprit, anyone i've spoken to seems to agree, unless anyone has any other suggestions before I whip it in the garage tomorrow? Cheers. |
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born-slippy
Newbie
Joined: 11-February-2005 Location: South Africa/UK Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 08:46 |
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Does your revs rise up and down all on its own?? |
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 09:10 |
Yes they do, it feels like the car is trying to rev itself up slightly for take-off. It idles about 900 rpm when steady (at cold temp) and during the judder it only rises & falls by a few hundred, not a serious amount, but enough to make the car judder a little instead of just ticking smoothely as it should at standstill, never cuts out though... |
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neileg
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 20-July-2004 Location: Northumberland Status: Offline Points: 638 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 09:22 |
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2 minutes on the diagnostic computr and you will know for certain. Just had the Lambda sensor changed on my 318is. Cost £63 from ECP plus £30 to an independant for diagnosis and fitting.
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Cheers, Neil
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 09:44 |
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Yep, I think thats going to be the way it goes Neil (doesn't stop you trying though, ay?) cheers. |
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born-slippy
Newbie
Joined: 11-February-2005 Location: South Africa/UK Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 10:58 |
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Sounds like the icv to me but a fault code reading should pick up the lambda probe if thats the problem.
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 11:38 |
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Bahhhh, now you got me all confused! I think i've almost convinced myself its the o2 sensor, but i'll have codes run next week to find out either way, if nothing comes up then i'll think about just replacing the ICV. I must admit though, i've just had it out for a quick spin and it has improved a little after i gave the idle valve a bit of a clean up yesterday, so you could be right. Grrrrrr, cars!!! |
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born-slippy
Newbie
Joined: 11-February-2005 Location: South Africa/UK Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 14:04 |
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You could just replace the lambda,theyre not that expensive, but i do know the icv is designed to keep the revs steady and yours is up and down. The best bet is to get someone to check for any fault codes and air leaks first. Just had a check for prices for icv's and they aint cheap (£100) so i would certainly get your car checked before forking out any money |
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 13-February-2005 at 14:21 |
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Damn, didn't realize they carried such a hefty pricetag. I'll get it on to a specialist next week and run codes, see whats what, then take it from there. Thanks again. |
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 15-February-2005 at 12:10 |
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Just popped in to see an independant specialist who also seems to think its the ICV, will know for sure tomorrow though, its booked in for a diagnostic, so there's light at the end of the tunnel.
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 17-February-2005 at 10:17 |
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The plot thickens... Been for the 'plug in' and its thrown up an 82 (Undocumented) Starting not to like this car. |
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born-slippy
Newbie
Joined: 11-February-2005 Location: South Africa/UK Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Posted: 17-February-2005 at 11:02 |
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At least it rules out the lambda probe,but its still a bugger not knowing what it actually is. BTW Did the guy say anything about resetting the fault code?? i'm sure all fault codes can be reset and if they dont come up again its sorted.
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 17-February-2005 at 12:59 |
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Yep, ECU was reset after the check. I've never had a warning on the dash about anything though, theres the thing... The ICV reading was a little on the high side, but still within its accepted range, hence no fault code thrown up on that one. Definitely not an O2 sensor we know that much as well, and i've systematically been through intake hoses for splits and tears and they're all okily dokily, no probs with the exhaust either (its virtually new). While I had my head under the bonnet listening to it run when its been warmed up (first real opportunity i've had) i've picked up on the tappets making a bit of a racket (not audiable from inside the car), so i'm going to change the oil and add some slick-50 tomorrow as well as a new oil filter and give it a blast, see if that improves matters any. I've got a new set of plugs to go in tomorrow as well and i'll be giving the throttle body a clean up and renewing the gaskett, all just as a matter of course but that aside if i don't have any joy tomorrow, i'm well and truly stuck.
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp! |
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Doive
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 17-February-2005 at 13:25 |
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Well, having looked at all the complex possibilities I'll try throwing a simple one into the ring. Heard of a chevette had exactly the same problem, when at rest and the brakes were depressed the engine would hunt slightly and run a little over idle. After a lot of searching and replacing of stuff, it turned out that the servo unit was not making a perfect vacuum, it was leaking and allowing some of the inlet manifold vacuum to escape when the brakes were pressed, so allowing the engine to idle slightly faster as the fuel/air mix was changed. Maybe this isn't a possibility on a more modern ECU controlled car, but all the symptoms are the same. Can't think of any other link between braking system and engine that would cause the same sort of fault. |
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk 
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SBSD
Groupie
Joined: 20-January-2005 Location: N/W UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 17-February-2005 at 13:53 |
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Doive, Thanks for that, i'm going to rule that one out from preliminary investigations, initially wanting to rule out a transmission fault as i'm fairly new to automatics and must admit to not knowing a great deal about them, i've tried pulling up at junctions/lights in N or P without the footbrake or handbrake in use and still the problem occurs. Still going ahead with the oil/filter change and the slick 50 tomorrow, see if this sticky tappet has anything to do with it, but any and all other suggestions most welcomed at this stage. Thanks again. |
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E36 318ise Auto (M40) judder
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but when I come to a standstill at a junction, or traffic lights etc, the idle speed is a little up and down and the car starts to judder, as if its trying to pull away. This happens if I apply the footbrake or handbrake in either P, N or D at standstill so obviously not a tranny problem.
born-slippy wrote:
(doesn't take a lot) 
