535 dynamics

Brybusa,

Thanks for your reply.  Yes, I guess I have to get used to it although it feels a bit odd that a so called "ultimate driving machine" has these quirks.

I wonder if BMW have anything to say about "tramlining" or thinking about some high-tech solution to it.  Surely, the exec's paying out hefty sums for new cars would have complained if they had uncomfortable ride. 

Automatix

Problem is everything is a compromise. You don't get all the handling with the comfort of a Cadillac. It must be more tightly sprung, more heavily dampened, and the alignment will be more "twitchy" and sensitive to road undulations; that's if you want a car considered communicative.

I only say this because I sense a level of bitterness with your "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience, and I feel bad. I really want you to enjoy your new purchase. Not because I have any commercial interest, but because I believe in BMW; I've been a HUGE fan for years.

I think what needs to be done is to find an honest shop that can drive your car and agree that there is something there; its the only proper beginning to correcting the problem verses a business, in the business of making money. Know what I mean? Somebody with a passion to sort out the root cause and give real advice without shot gunning fixes that are easy to implement, generate nice plump bills, but don't fix your problem.

Do you know anybody else that has the same car? Maybe you can get an extensive test drive in another and determine if it's your car with the problem, or a general distaste for the "Ultimate Driving Machine" handling characteristics.

Take care,

Jake

J7 VNK,

The car has been recently serviced, fitted with brand new premium tyres and wheel balanced and tracked. There is NOTHING wrong! My point is that, as I have noted in my previous posts, tramlining is a peculiar behaviour (which I have encountered for the first time in my entire driving life)  of wide profile tyres, and perhaps exaggerated by weight of the vehicle as "brybusa" rightly pointed out. Even the BMW specialist (two I have spoken to) said  that one experiences tramling with these cars. I am sure many BMW owners have experienced this too as I see from the post here and many review sites I have looked at and they have attempted all kinds of work arounds (tyre/wheel combination etc.) to overcome it -- some with success others less so. It is not just with the car I purchased I am experiencing this but also with  some other (523, 528) cars I test drove during my search for "ultimate driving machine".

I am not trying to dwell into some paranoia about whether one has to drive a boat, a train or a Rover. That is completely besides the point. For me safety is above anything else -- "joy of riding" and any other abstract psychology is secondary. That means I demand full confidence in a car I drive. If the car wants to give "feedback" on road conditions let it do so in any whacky way it wants other than give the driver the feeling that it is "wrenching away" the steering. That is un-acceptable for me (and my confidence) even if the effect is infinitesimal --- I want to be in total control and only accept any side effect from the car provided it is helping the situation (for instance an ABS scenario).

To quote you " a perfect example will glide along gracefully at 140 MPH and feel solid as a rock" -- and that is exactly what I expect from an "ultimate driving machine". Anything less doesnt deserve that title. I shudder to think of the experience of tramlining in the inside lane of the motorway at 140mph (or even 70mph for that matter) on the (white) ruts that  mark the end of the lane !

Sorry I beg to differ. In a space age if all what we can get is a "ultimate driving machine" that tramlines and expects drivers to "get used to it" I am not happy and I dont buy any concoted arguments. I just think BMW have to think harder about their equations (have you seen one of those boasting adverts from BMW ?) and come up with some better solutions (maybe thin profile tyre/wheel designs) that can match even humble cars like Mitsubishi or a Rover as far as tramlining is concerned !  

regards,

Automatix  

Without getting into an argument I have to state that i just find your claims to be a little exaggerated if the truth is your car has no faults. I owned a 535i SE 1997 model, which is of course the V8 also and has re-circulating ball steering, it was sporting 17" deep dish BMW style 32 wheels with 255 rear and 235 front tyres. It was a Steptronic and it drove beautifully and did as it should, you commented "I want to be in total control" and I feel this car gave that. and more.

Therefore what I am trying to say is that there must be something wrong with the car if you do not feel this!  If you're happy there's not then you must have driven some special cars in the past to outclass this driving experience! maybe it's just not the car from you?

Yes I’m defending BMW, because after owning over 30 cars and then buying a good BMW I've now had 10 of them!  and not bought anything but BMW (with the exception of cars for my other half who only recently passed her test!)

It is for this reason I find it hard for someone to describe it as you do. i can only assume you're used to Rolls Royce comfort.

As for Safety it was awarded 4 out of 4 in the N-cap safety tests! and is among the safest car in it's class.

I was hoping there was something wrong so you could then start to enjoy the experience, however it seems you're too stuck in your ways to attempt to resolve the issue and therefore reply as you will because, to your relief, it's my last word on the matter. This is of course one mans opinion and what are forums for?

No hard feelings intended

Thankyou Doive!

(oops, wasn't going to reply!)

Doive,

So you are agreeing that the first experience of tramlining can be disconcerting (which is also my point BTW). You are also agreeing that the tyre spec of BMW is a "trade off " between handling and side-effects of tramlining and then you say it is not an "under-engineering". What exactly is your final word  on the "ultimate driving machine".

I am not into "talking" to cars or "listening" to cars "talking". All I am saying is that un-solicited side-effects as a result of engineering decisions are unwelcome and they need to be addressed. After all there is no such thing as a "perfect" or "ultimate" artefact created by humans. And tramlining is an imperfection of the design "trade-off".

Imagine you are on the inner lane of motorway and the car tramlines on the (white) rut on the edge of the lane giving you the feeling it is "dragging" towards the central reservation. Would you

1. Instinctively try to correct the tramlinining effect and steer it away

2. or would you say that the car is "talking" to you through the wheels and seats and try to "talk" back to it ?

regards,

Automatix

Automatix wrote: J7 VNK Apart from other logical inconsistency in your post I find this most fascinating. You say you owned 10 BMW. If a BMW is an "ultimate driving machine" then the first one should have been good as gold. Why change 10 times ? Surely then the first one wasnt, so wasnt the second, the third, the fourth all the way to 10th and I guess you are embarking on the 11th "ulitmate driving machine". Good luck indeed! Automatix

i think you should get yourself a chauffer!!  then you wont need to drive, as you're obviously intimidated by the car!!  get a Montego! 

As for sticking to one car!!  YOUR logic is far from a car lovers, mine is such that one aspires to own better cars and better oneself while at the same time pursuing a hobby and enjoying it!

For your information I ENJOY buying/owning/driving and SELLING cars, it has been a passion of mine since I bought my first motorbike at 11 years old and continues to be. It's also a way of lining my own pocket like any business person would like. If someone offered you a house that was worth £500k for £400k would you buy it and capitalise?  no? some would, and I’m that someone!  I do the same with cars to a lesser extent and at 27 it makes my mortgage payments a lot less stressful!  that's MY logic!  I've never owned a car more than 12 months!  most which I love only stay for 3 because why should a car depreciate? I certainly don't want to lose money, unfortunately one can't afford to in this economic climate.

As for the car again, BMW lovers tried to help solve your problem, you still whinged on like a spoilt child with a silver spoon in his mouth and simply boiled my pi$$, I grew a dislike to your ungratefulness and whiny attitude so i tried to justify the car, but you keep your opinions, and i will mine, it makes life colourful after all!

Apologies for the rant to everyone else on the forum!!  feel free to put me in my place whenever you deem necessary.

Regards

Jon

Automatix wrote: the profiles on front and rear are different 225 rear and 235 front.

On our wheels, the tyres should be 225/55 R16 all round....

Also I'd like to echo the comments made above - let's see if we can help Automatix get his 535 handling the way it should...

Hi Folks,

Sorry it is not my intention to rebuke the brand or the beemers. As I said right from my first post that this is my first BMW and there were some problems with the car which I rectified. And this is, as I said, my first experience of tramlining which I found discomforting since I never experienced with any other car I have driven here or abroad.  

Doive, if you read my post carefully I used the phrase "ultimate driving machine" in an ironical sense. I am glad you mentioned that it is a "marketing" buzzword because that is exactly what it is and what I always thought about it -- I have seen their equations adverts a long long before I bought this car and very well knew that it is just an engineering artefact that is perhaps better than others in the drive quality but of-course comes at a price (you get what you pay for).

My comparison is very simple. I have a humble Mitsubhishi carisma automatic which is mostly being used within 10 miles radius (by my other half ) and I have never felt funny effects on my steering on patchy roads (or even on motorways) unlike this "ultimate" on the same roads. There is no doubt a difference in the tyre profiles but that is no good  a justification for me to accept that the BMW is (almost) perfect just because it gives a better ride quality on other types of roads. It tramlines  or to use your terminology it "talks" or "communicates" the road condition on to the steering. Why would I want to know that a cable company dug up the road and patched it up roughly ? Of what use is that information that the car "communicates" and in the process makes the steering feel strange -- however feeble the effect is. You are most welcome to come and test drive both my cars (but I need proof of insurance :-) since I know one of them tramlines) !

I am glad some folks are seeing the logic in what I am saying. I am also glad see that some folks are tramline-free (or atleast got used to it) ! As I said earlier, maybe even I will get used to the "communicative" features of the car. But for now I find the effects uneasy!

regards,

Automatix