328i sliding off road

neileg wrote: Hi Nick DE. I was over in Germany in December, as far east as Dresden. The big difference between Germany and the UK is the temperature. I loved the ice frosted trees. We get those in the UK but only one or two at a time. In Bavaria I saw about 250km of white trees! It's seriously cold, I guess about 10Celcius colder. we complain about the cold in the UK, but it's nothing like mid-European cold.

Yup, but we don't get so much of that in Rhein-Neckar-Kreis. The upper Rhine valley has it's own climate, making it a good wine growing area. And ideal Cabrio country

But we are having a cold spell now. Minus 10C at night, plus 2C in the afternoon. The drive to work yesterday was beautiful. The roads were bone dry, the fields were covered in snow, everything was blanketed in a thick white fog except for the roads (heat from cars ?) - everything was very peaceful. Plus, because of my winter tyres I had 100 Euros to buy acceleration or steering, not 10 Pounds

Heel & toeing is basically double-declutching whilst braking.

Until you're proficient it will generally get you into more trouble than the recognised procedure which is:-

1. brake to appropriate speed


2. select appropriate gear for corner & speed


3. turn corner.

Most people try to do all three steps at the same time & wonder why it all goes wrong!

The main purpose of heel & toeing is to ******** that you're a very talented driver in a fast car.

When my wife was looking for a new car I showed her the Autocar road test of the Skoda Fabia which they derided for being difficult to heel & toe !!! As if the average Fabia buyer would even know what it was let alone use it. Pretentious or what!!!

Practising road placement & learning to read the road ahead will be more beneficial.

b318isp wrote: Peter Fenwick wrote: b318isp wrote: What no one has mentioned yet is the importance of heel and toeing on slippy roads. While I see your point, how many drivers can heel and toe. I've tried but did not find it easy at all. It might be something that more skilled drivers can do to reduce chances of skidding, but it isn't really a solution for the average motorist. I would suggest that changing from 4th to 2nd without slowing down a lot first is the problem. Engine braking is not recomended at all by the IAM, or at least it wasn't when I last did a defensive driving course. Yes it is tricky to master but it is fairly important for entusiastic RWD drivers! Even an abrupt downshift could cause a loss if control.

It's not always easy to find the time or space to practice, the roads are so busy these days that there's seldom room.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the theory is that while changing down and braking you simultaneously blip the throttle in a attempt to match the engine speed to the gear you are selecting. This is done by swivelling the foot that is on the brake pedal so that your to can also press the accelerator. Any tips would be appreciated because when I try I normally end up reving the nuts of the car or my foot slips of the pedals.

@B 7 VP

I find winter driving conditions here remarkably like UK conditions - cold mornings but usually no frost or ice, wet surfaces in the morning, usually drying out by midday. The only difference is that in the summer it becomes nice and warm and I can justify driving a Cabrio. Whereas in the UK in the summer it remains as cold mornings but usually no frost or ice, wet surfaces in the morning, usually drying out by midday. Come to think of it why doesn't the UK use winter tyres all year round ?. Obviously it's very different in the high altitude areas such as Schwarzwald, but that's what snowchains are for.

The road surfaces are not what they are cracked up to be. Due to the economic crisis they is no money left for the roads, and so potholes and temporary patches are becoming the norm

b318isp wrote: What no one has mentioned yet is the importance of heel and toeing on slippy roads.

While I see your point, how many drivers can heel and toe. I've tried but did not find it easy at all. It might be something that more skilled drivers can do to reduce chances of skidding, but it isn't really a solution for the average motorist.

I would suggest that changing from 4th to 2nd without slowing down a lot first is the problem. Engine braking is not recomended at all by the IAM, or at least it wasn't when I last did a defensive driving course.

 Hi Nick DE, Your advice is welcome, as is BMW AG,s Tech" Like It Is--" Our problem is UK road Surfaces,If they were ALL like your Rhein-Neckar-Kries area,s  with our Suspensions set up For Your Road surfaces, we maybe dont have a problem.BUT--- due to OUR ****z UK roads, The AG thinking isnt so Good!!!!!!! So WE have problems. These probs are SO bad, that AG sent a Team of Suspension experts over to UK, to try to Re-Design the systems and Run Flat tyres(Should have done That FIRST eh!!!)

Colin McRae,s Support team come from the UK, so are very experienced with OUR prob Roads, they get their designs made for a choice of WORLD conditions for many different countries,  shame other Manufactorers dont Do the Same.--Yet.(BUT-I think YOU know All this already) German Winter road conditions are Not the same as Uk. Must give you a buzz the next time I come thru your area.

The grip the tyres have in bad conditions depends on the weight per surface area you have in contact. Increasing the weight over the wheel using shingle, cement, relatives etc increases the grip. It also increases the total weight of the car, increasing it's momentum and kinetic energy which just makes the whole problem of controlling the car with low grip even worse. BMW only say weight in the boot helps to get a car moving, not to control a moving car.

Decreasing the tyre size also increases the weight per surface area giving more without increasing the total momentum - that's why winter tyres are smaller than summer tyres.

Has anyone ever seen Colin McRae's support team chucking bags in the boot, or do they spent hours analysing weather reports, road conditions and then choosing tyres of the right size, profile and compound ? You can do much the same by investing in a set of M+S tyres - have a look in the tyre spec section of the user manual.

Judging by the BBC Weather web pages you guys are in for a bit of practice ! Whatever method you choose (skill, weight, tyres, abstinence) I wish you all safe journeys.

Nick