How WILL you vote ? ? ?

Peter Fenwick wrote: Firsr of all where do I see the numbers? secondly how do you know that none of these people do a worthwhile job? Beacuse Micheal Howard told you? And thirdly do you really think the economy would be any better off with these people on the ranks of the unemployed? You talk about people loosing there houses on a scale not seen before. You mean higher than when the tories were in and interest rates went sky high? The reason I refered to you as an 'alright jack' is because you are talking about getting rid of these useless jobs with seamingly little regard for the fact that the are currently filled by people with families etc. It's very easy to talk about job loses when it's not your job! The whole issue of jobs is part of a much bigger global issue to do with costs, shareholders and increasingly competetive world markets forcing companies to move manufacturing out of countries like ours. Unless the Government does something to stop this pretty soon there will be no manufacturing laft and we will be a nation of service industries. Even the call centres are moving out now. I agree that creating jobs for the sake of it (not that I am saying that's what has happened in this case) seams daft, but how else do you stop unemployment going balistic as companies just up and leave. What the tax payer in effect is doing is propping up an economy that is starting to falter as a result of capitalism. We all know the reasons comunism failed but  how many of us considered the effects of capitalism long term.

Without capitalism, there would be no BMW, and no-one would aspire to own one.

It is true that capitalism, as opposed to a free-market economy, has some undesirable side-effects. However, these seem to come mainly from when big businesses have an undue effect on the role of government, and on that basis, New Labour are far more snugly ensconced in a mutual and loving relationship with big business than the Tories ever were. So if you want to spank those evil, corrupt, government-influencing capitalists, you'd be better off voting Tory.

As a consequence of my "alright jack" job, I consult to a large number of government departments and the corporates they outsource to. This is where, up close and personal, I see niche-fillers, butt-coverers, and other assorted oxygen thieves every time I go to work. I would personally love to see everyone employed in a worthwhile and important job, but as a taxpayer, I'd far rather see people costing me as little money as possible. The best way of doing that is NOT to have them fill some meaningless make-work job that just balloons our tax bill and gives the country nothing but a useful statistic back. I think the economy would be better off with these people not employed in such a fashion, but rather in genuine jobs performing genuinely useful things.

Unfortunately, in that especially British way of capitalism, Messrs Bliar and "Face Like a Smacked Bottom" Brown have toadied themselves up to the large corporates, going out of their way to accommodate things that benefit large, cost-cutting, outsourcing (!) companies while squeezing job-creating, small businesses out of existence.

Everybody rambles on about how the Tories gave us Private Finance Initiatives, but the truth of the matter is that they spent millions of pounds getting consultants to advise them on how to do it, while not actually doing much of it. New Labour has grasped this ugly, big-bad-capitalist idea with both hands and taken it a hundred times further than the Tories dared, giving worthless companies huge sums of our tax money for very little benefit (cf hospitals and schools being PFI'd.) This gives both the government and the PFI companies to move billions of pounds off the balance sheet, but that expense is all still sitting there. I wonder if it was all factored in to the country's finances if we'd still be as happy?

I feel sorry for anyone left in manufacturing (MG Rover?) or agriculture because the government feels it is old-fashioned and unimportant to make things or grow things or build things when you can have glittering service industries that can easily be outsourced to cheaper countries ... er ...

So one glorious day, we will all work for the government, tovarisch, fulfilling the needs of the nation on the latest glorious ten year plan!

It's actually reasonably easy to encourage people to have businesses that employ people instead of getting them employed by the government -- give small businesses and start-ups tax breaks. But the issue for a bloated state is that if you're employed by the government, you'll vote for the party of big government to keep your cushy job.

spokey wrote: Peter Fenwick wrote: But when Maggie was in power crude oil wasn't 50-$60 a barrel. Petrol prices are high and will remain high because the increasing world demand for oil. Errrr.... When Maggie was in power, 90% of the price of petrol wasn't tax? I think that even if crude is $60/bbl, it equates to about 10p / litre. Certainly not anywhere near a pound.

Ok then, during the 80's what percentage of the price of petrol was tax?

B 7 VP wrote: People choose to remember or forget ,what fits in with their thinking. New RED Labia came in on a NEW Party Image for the Young dynamic generation of the late nineties, the GO-getters-   BUT underneath they are as corrupt in thinking and actions as was their Communist  mentors--the Red flag flying over most of Europe and it took 70 years to get rid of them--BUT--Bliar and the slime let the old doctrine show more and more. Your freedoms-Your choices are disappearing not only in our Motoring world each day, but in our Whole British way of life.Compare our restrictions with similar countries--WE are the 4th Richest as you know--What interference , what Big Bros Camera,s do YOU see in other countries--WE ARE the world champs in being watched 24/7--WHY ?????? when we are supposed to live in a democratic country--but have the dictator mentality 24 hours a day. --Your memories are so short--So you have forgotten 61 TAX Increases since Reds got in,??- Every subject you look at that was going to be the best, BUT You must pay more for it-is a disaster, out of control--make it up as they go along, Stats that proove its the greatest --and NObrainers who believe their own brainwash. Lies, Lies and more Lies from Iraq to MI5, From stealing Pension Funds, to Rigging Elections in Birmingham--BUT--seeing all the Corruption as Perfectly normal, as the Attorney General lies and lies, -So it Must Ok--init???. People forget after a days paper or TV, so they know if you get an extra 50p, they can waste  the £1 billion on computer systems that dont work , But dont say anything--its only the press that dig out the brown stuff. Yes--ALL politians Lie-But the Blues seem to lie a bit less than the others, and have given more encouragement to stand on your own feet, reward doers not freeloaders. PS.Agree with spokey--Where is the money coming from to carry on financing the UK Ltd, when the Sh -t hits the Fan--YOU!!.

I have to say I find you views a little bit strange. Do you really believe that Tony Blair and the labour party are dragging us towards a communist state?

If I was being cynical I'd say these kind of coments were about trying to spread fear in order to get people to vote a certain way.

When you talk about a dictator, do you watch the news? How can you compare the government we have with someone like Robert Mugabe. I agree there are a lot of things wrong with what is going on in this country but to describe it as a dictatorship seams a bit over the top.

I've said this before, but a lot of the things that are happening, speed cameras included are down to public opinion. There are a lot of people in this country that want speed cameras, want a ban on smoking in public places etc etc. This is not the government trying to take our liberty away, this is every day people trying to have the country run the way they want, the kind of people who use the phrase 'it shouldn't be allowed'. The problem is that on many issues, like speed cameras, you have to realise that you and me are the minority.

The S**T is going to hit the fan in this country anyway regardless of who is voted in next election. Once there is no manufacturing left and countries like india have developed the expertise to develope and design as well, our wealth will disappear and we will be screwed. 

You are right there Spokey. Everyone should vote. If you don't vote you have no right to complain.

I bet if they said that anyone who didn't vote in the election wouldn't ever be allowed to vote again, they would get 100% turn out

 IF by pointing out to people who have become used to a Government ruling by lies and deception,that they must NOT accept everything they are told--

IF by pointing out to people that they are losing their Freedom of choice and Democracy which is being eroded by stealth, and being told its for OUR good,--

IF by pointing out to people the danger of allowing a dictator mentality to continue, without question,--

IF by encouraging people to look beyond their noses, at other countries idea,s of doing things and to question why WE get Lies and cover ups,--

 and if by being aware of these subjects people fear what could happen If they choose to do nothing, ----then the reason for posting comments on every forum, Tv Station and in Newspapers is Justified--

Ignorance is what Governments rely on, Bliars thrive on it.

So if our manufacturing world is going to come crashing down. would YOU not think that a caring intelligent govt, would be making companies life easier to do Biz, investing TAXpayers money in research and helping 24/7---instead of bringing in SO many regs and and demands--that companies no longer have an incentive to expand,

just the reverse--sound familiar--it should , its the state suffocating the life out of the industry--when market conditions require all the help it can get.

 

 

 

Edited by B 7 VP

I'm not going to say any more on this subject (porobably) because I don't think anyone of us is going to change their views.

My last thoughts would be that I said a long time ago that the desire to become a politician should automatically exclude you from being able to become one. Anyone who has the desire to go into politics IMO only does it for power.

Despite this I still don't think that we are going to become a totalitarian state and I don't think we are heading down the road towards communism. That's like syaing that if the tories get in they will try and turn Britain into a fashist state.

You might as well tell me that aliens control our minds and one day are going to eat us.

Those who hate Tony and all he stands for should find out which party stands the best chance of unseating the sitting Lab MP and vote tactically.

I wonder if the Libs will have a good result this time around?

Hmm very intersting reading.  When I had a wee look see the torries were way out int the lead with approx 50% of the votes.  I didn't think they'd be that popular. 

Have the BMW owners from Bearsden, Newton Mearns and Milngavie been voting on here?

Andrew

spokey wrote: M3AG wrote: if you vote because you don't like what the current government is doing, surely that isn't the correct way of using your vote? That is exactly the correct use of your vote.

I agree with Spokey .. why not vote tactically?

Why would you want to use your vote to keep in a government whose policies you dont agree with?

AG - I guess the point of tactical voting is to unseat as many Lab MPs as possible to give tony a good kicking.

What are the national polls saying so far?