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Forum LockedHow WILL you vote ? ? ?
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Poll Question: How will you vote in the upcoming elections?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
28 [49.12%]
17 [29.82%]
1 [1.75%]
2 [3.51%]
9 [15.79%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Doive View Drop Down
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Points: 1212 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2005 at 19:29
Originally posted by rubberknees50 rubberknees50 wrote:

All the major and most minor religions support peace on earth

You mean apart from Islam? It clearly staes in the Koran that Muslims must according to their religion eradicate all other religions by killing them. It states that they must murder them in the most horrific way possible, hence the activities we currently see in the middle east. The muslims in Britain choose to follow a watered down version of the Koran, but the thing is that the heads of Islam are free to change the wording and even the instruction within to suit the time and application. How is this not open to corruption?

I sincerely hope for all our sakes that Blair isn't following the teachings of Islam. Look at the times in history when Britain has been a christian nation with christian leaders. WWII could have been an entirely different prospect without the Queen Mother at the helm, praying for the country and the world in general. The Queen is a christian and I believe it is reflected in her life. I can only hope that the throne will skip a generation and go to William. A muslim PM or head of state is something to get very concerned by indeed.
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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 03:27

Doive, although I have never read the Koran, I don't think it says that. Why don't you post the actual quote? My other half however is a lot more up on these things so I will ask her. Also I don't think that Tony Blair being a Muslin is a reason to slag him off. IMO it's now different to him being a Jew or a Christain or a Buddist etc. The biggest reason for the problems in the middle east is israel and American support of Israel.  

I think you should be very carefull about making generallisations like that about other religions, after all you expect others to be tollerant of your beliefs. Also I don't think this forum is the right place to be making such statements, especially as it is likely that some members will be Muslims.  
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Doive View Drop Down
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Points: 1212 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 07:14
Fair point. In today's politically correct society I'd better not express my opinion, or indeed the facts of the case.

I apologise to other members for any offence caused by my post.
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Praktisk View Drop Down
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Points: 845 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 07:17

U TURN >>>>>> (to avoid thread being closed)

I must admit to be one of the ones who havent voted in this thread yet.

I still cant make my mind up what to do.

 

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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 07:55
Originally posted by Praktisk Praktisk wrote:

U TURN >>>>>> (to avoid thread being closed)

I must admit to be one of the ones who havent voted in this thread yet.

I still cant make my mind up what to do.

 

Well I voted but I may change my mind before election time. I just dont' think I can bring myself to vote for Labour or conservative.

Oh how I wish for a viable alternative
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Points: 886 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 08:52

i voted in this poll but im confused to as what to do for the best in the actual poll

ive got a little boy to consider and i dont want it to get any worse for him

darren
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PaulS View Drop Down
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Points: 2516 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 09:57

I was also in the forces under Maggie, but also under Major as well. Left the forces in '97 and still vote tory. I was lucky not to be in the forces under Blair.

Paul


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rubberknees50 View Drop Down
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Points: 1074 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 11:28

Interesting inputs from Doive and Peter F, I don't think religious intolerance is any more justifiable than racial intolerance, but I fail to see how the yanks are responsible for problems in the Middle East that have been going since before America existed.

Like Berlin after WW2, the middle east was packaged up to create Israel, and British troops were heavily involved in policing it, sounds like another generalisation "to be avoided" to me.

No one is going to know what will happen in General Election till "the fat lady sings". None of the parties are ideal, I think Labour has largely lost the trust of the people, and no-one knows what to make of the others, they've all done good and bad in the past. We'll know on the 7th May!
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Praktisk View Drop Down
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Points: 845 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 11:41

Ruberknees:

The way I see it is this.

Palestine feels miffed at America for not intervening in what it sees as an unfair occupation of its country by Isreali forces.

If they (USA) are happy enough to "try" to sort out Baghdads problems and are thinking about doing the same in Iran (God forbid), then why can they not spend a bit of time helping out the Palestinians.

Why?, because that would severly de-stabilize Jewish relations in America, and we all know how many Jews there are over there ... thus upsetting a BIG number of voters.

 

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Points: 6381 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2005 at 13:06
Originally posted by e28silver528i e28silver528i wrote:

...I was lucky not to be in the forces under Blair.



It occurs to me that you might not be alive if you were....

...either that, or you would be facing a court-martial...

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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 03:07
Originally posted by rubberknees50 rubberknees50 wrote:

Interesting inputs from Doive and Peter F, I don't think religious intolerance is any more justifiable than racial intolerance, but I fail to see how the yanks are responsible for problems in the Middle East that have been going since before America existed.

Where do you think a lot of Israels weapons come from?

I agree that the middle east has been a volatile region since biblical times but in recent times a lot of the problems have been down to Israel. The fact that America has provided Israel with unconditional support is why they are partly responsible.

lets just hope that things are sorted out soon. The creation of an independant Palestinian state is likely to help a lot. Also despite what anyone thinks about the war in Iraq, the fact that Sadam and his regime are gone can only be good for the region in the long term.

I agree with your comment re racial and religious intollerance.

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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 03:20
Originally posted by Horsetan Horsetan wrote:

Originally posted by e28silver528i e28silver528i wrote:

...I was lucky not to be in the forces under Blair.



It occurs to me that you might not be alive if you were....

...either that, or you would be facing a court-martial...

Have more Britsh soldiers been killed in Iraq than in the Falklands?

Wasn't it a conservative government that was in when we liberated Kuwait?

The court martial issue has more to do with the power of the media these days. If we never got to here about the things that happened then the likely hood of soldiers being court martialled would be a lot less. Having such wide spread media coverage of wars has it's downsides.

While I have sympathy for the any one in the military and supporting industries (my brother works for BAE Military aircraft division), since the end of the cold war we no longer have a need for such a large armed forces. The wars we will fight now and in the future are likley to be against terrorists and tin pot dictators like Sadam, who despite having an massive army was simply no match for us.

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Points: 1948 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 04:06
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

Wasn't it a conservative government that was in when we liberated Kuwait?


Er, yes, but (and this is a very big butt) there had been an actual invasion of Kuwait. This time around there was just a load of bogus "intelligence".
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Points: 1948 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 04:09
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

While I have sympathy for the any one in the military and supporting industries (my brother works for BAE Military aircraft division), since the end of the cold war we no longer have a need for such a large armed forces. The wars we will fight now and in the future are likley to be against terrorists and tin pot dictators like Sadam, who despite having an massive army was simply no match for us.


And why was he no match for us? Because, er... we have a large armed force? Mind you, not for much longer at the rate our Holy Trinity of Bliar, Brown and Hoon is going.
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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 05:02

Originally posted by spokey spokey wrote:



And why was he no match for us? Because, er... we have a large armed force? 

I have to disagree with that comment. We beat him because of the technical superiority of our forces not the size of them. The Iraqi T55, T62 and T72 tanks were woefully out classed by our Challenger 2s and the American M1 Abrams. Not only could our tanks engage the Iraqi armour at distances were they couldn't fire back, we could also fight at night and in poor visibility conditions. Even when the Iraqi tanks got in range their shells couldn't penetrate the armour of our tanks. In short our tanks were invunerable to theirs, a point which was shown by the fact that not one single tank of ours was lost to enemy tank fire.

 
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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 05:04

Originally posted by spokey spokey wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

Wasn't it a conservative government that was in when we liberated Kuwait?


Er, yes, but (and this is a very big butt) there had been an actual invasion of Kuwait. This time around there was just a load of bogus "intelligence".

True, but if they'd done a proper job an actually deposed Sadam then there would have been no Gulf war 2. Also if they had done it then there would have been a lot less condemnation than there was the second time around.

Although i didn't agree with the reasons for going to war I do think that in the end it will be good for the region and the loss of Sadam and his regime, which did support terrorism, is a good thing for the world as a whole.
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Points: 287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 07:01

Hi, Rubberknees50(Ian) but wendy left herself signed in and I can't be bothered to sign out/in again and back for one post.

Peter F, original comment wasn't that the US were 'partly' responsible, I'd have to agree with that, but the Russians did the same for some arab countries! Both of them used it as an opportunity to see how their weapons actually performed!

Praktish, Most of us can see why both sides are upset, the current mess goes back to the 1950's but like you say, 'God forbid' more US military action. Saddam going might be good in the long run but it was done hastily and maybe for the wrong reasons (WMD, 911) The US have tried peace moves, - the Kissinger years etc but I think the area needs less agression not more.

I'd have to agree it was technological superiority more so than numbers in Iraq, it took a Challenger 2 to knock another one out - as I heard it down to a problem with the comms that was known about the first time but not worth spending the money to sort out!

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PaulS View Drop Down
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Points: 2516 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2005 at 09:13

[/QUOTE]

It occurs to me that you might not be alive if you were....

...either that, or you would be facing a court-martial...[/QUOTE]

Why is that horsetan?

Paul


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Horsetan View Drop Down
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Points: 6381 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2005 at 17:55
Originally posted by e28silver528i e28silver528i wrote:

Quote It occurs to me that you might not be alive if you were.... ...either that, or you would be facing a court-martial...


Why is that horsetan?


Paul




Something to do with "friendly fire"?

Or not taking care to ensure that the fella you just shot was not in fact some "unarmed civilian"?

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Points: 5301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2005 at 17:58
Well I am postal voting this time around cos I can't vote in York due to the time constraints involved in getting onto the roll here, so the Izzle will be getting my vote and to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure which way I will go cos they are all lying bar stewards.
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