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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Low range voltmeter
    Posted: 15-April-2005 at 08:56

I am finding it a little tricky to find a 12v voltmeter (as in the main operating voltage) that measures from 0v to about 2.0 or 3.0v (preferably digital display)

I am looking to accurately measure the AFR.

Anyone know of a supplier? Nigel?

Thanks.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-April-2005 at 06:36

I'd use a modified multimeter, and in the long run power it via a few zener diodes to drop the voltage down to what the meter wants. It'll only draw a few mA current when measuring volts. A cheap multimeter can be had for about a fiver (e.g. maplins)

cheers

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-April-2005 at 08:12
Get a good multimeter, the Academy ones are quality products and they can be had for about 25 quid. These will measure down to 3DP at 3V and should give you the sensitivity you require. Cheap ones in my experience are fine for testing that a voltage is present on a line, but absolutely pants when it comes to actually measuring it with any degree of accuracy. What is the resolution of the AFR?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2005 at 05:55

Originally posted by Doive Doive wrote:

Get a good multimeter, the Academy ones are quality products and they can be had for about 25 quid. These will measure down to 3DP at 3V and should give you the sensitivity you require. Cheap ones in my experience are fine for testing that a voltage is present on a line, but absolutely pants when it comes to actually measuring it with any degree of accuracy. What is the resolution of the AFR?

Thanks Brucey - I am a bit of numnuts with electric stuff, how would I step down the voltage with Zener(?) diodes?

Hi Doive - if I understand what you mean, as far as I am aware the O2 sensor works from 1.00 to 0.00V, I need to check my info again to make sure which way the system works as in 1.00 = rich 0.00 = lean.

If either of you guys could PM me a diagram with component descriptions so I can build this, i would be eternally grateful!!

Cheers Gents

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2005 at 11:20
A resolution of a Volt should be absolutely no problems to a decent multimeter, most of the better models go to 3 decimal places in their lower ranges. For better accuracy I'm afraid you will have to beg, steal or borrow something like an Agilent multimeter which provides readings down to six decimal places for certain applications. I can't see how anything on a car could require this sort of accuracy, so I'd recommend a good multimeter. If the full range of the o2 sensor is a volt then it will likely increment in steps bigger than 0.001V, so accuracy below this would be wasted.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2005 at 12:34

I agree! That would be way off for the 02 sensor anyway, i don't think they are that accurate!

I think in the interim I will get a jump off the sensor wiring and into the car (the switch blanks in front of the gear lever) with some sort of terminal I can stick my multimeter probes into.

cheers for your help - now you have expressed leccy wisdom, you can be my guru!!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2005 at 16:35

The idea for the zener diode was to allow the meter to be powered up off the 12V in the car rather than the 9V (or whatever) battery inside a multimeter. You'll only need to do this if you are running around for weeks and weeks with a meter in the car. For a 9V meter, a 5V zener diode would be about right. This is a bit of a bodge, but it would hold the voltage between about seven and nine volts to power the meter. If you buy such a thing from RS you can also get an applications data sheet that will explain how to use it.

Incidentally I bought a cheapo multimeter from maplins recently (£4.99 in a sale) just to have one in the beemer (18 year old electrics not 100% reliable). Out of curiosity I checked it against a properly calibrated instrument and it was fine.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2005 at 16:48

What you want is a Digital Engine Analyser from Maplin.co.uk

£19.99

does 0-12v and will measure resistance, dwell etc and has settings for 4,6,8 cyl engines. 

This months performance bmw with the blue M3 on cover has a picture and more details on page 22.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2005 at 20:45
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

cheers for your help - now you have expressed leccy wisdom, you can be my guru!!

Oh dear, what have I let myself in for??

Well I am a leccy engineer, so if I didn't know this kind of stuff it would be a bad thing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-April-2005 at 07:43
I have a cheap digital meter, Metex. Can't remember where it came from but it has  200mV, 2V, 20V ranges. I won't have paid more than £20 for it.
Cheers, Neil
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-April-2005 at 08:11

Thanks for the amount of input guys!

I have looked at maplin - no spec as yet for the analyser...

Originally posted by Doive Doive wrote:

Oh dear, what have I let myself in for??

He he he!

Shows what a pillock I am, talking right out of my bottom:

http://www.picotech.com/auto/lambda_sensor.html

I would assume from this that my multimeter (machine mart - £40) would be 10k ohn device, is this an industry or other standard for multimeters?

Doive (here we go!), on page 4 there is a caution statement about zirconium sensors (how would I tell?) and 'jumping' the sensors leads (what and how is this?)

Sorry to be a pain in  the backside!!

Cheers

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-April-2005 at 15:27
It should say somewhere on your meter what the input impedance is - for £40 I'd expect it to make tea for me as well.

I have no idea if your car will be fitted with a zirconia o2 sensor, they appear to be fairly widespread and I would follow their guidelines carefully. The sensor only becomes operational above 300 degC, below this the resistance is quite high. Most multimeters measure resistance by squirting a low current into a device and measuring the voltage that appears between the leads - voltage = current x resistance. From this the same low current passed into the zirconia sensor at room temperature will produce a high voltage (>>1V) across the sensor and so damaging it.

'Jumping' leads just means don't connect any of them directly to 12V or earth. As far as I know (could be wrong) most of these sensors work on TTL voltages less than 5V, and so punting 12V into them would knacker them. Hope this helps, or at least makes some of it a bit clearer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-April-2005 at 18:09

I tend to use Flukes, very accurate, but I think they run out at around £150 - £250, depending on what spec you want, and what calibration cert etc.

As for the 9v PP3 battery, they last about a year.

I also use a textronics hand held scope, which includes a very accurate voltmeter, but now your talking around £1000, great for setting sensors up though.

You do tend to get what you pay for, and to be honest £15 - £20 should get you a cracker for occasional use.

I dont like that pico stuff, I have tried it, its update time is too slow for me, and I have known people to damage their laptops with it, albeit by their own stupidity, but its still an expensive repair.

Best Wishes

Nigel

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-April-2005 at 10:48

When you say Pico stuff, do you mean the info link I posted?

got a bit confused there!

anyway, I'll have a crack this weekend at running some pick-up contacts into the cabin for me to wack the meter on, ohms permitting!

If it works I'll get a cheapie(!) and use that.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-April-2005 at 11:29

Yes thats the stuff, picoscope, and the rest of the instruments they do.

Its dam good software, but as its running on a computer its update is quite slow, and of course, the interfacing problems.

But it is cheap, so use it carefully and you could get some good results.

Best Wishes

Nigel

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-April-2005 at 04:26

What a weekend, absolutely no time to myself!

I hope y'alls were better...

I checked my current multimeters (clarke CDM45 http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010910069) instruction manual, and there is no mention of its Ohm rating???

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-April-2005 at 06:39
I wouldn't worry with a meter such as that one, good quality unit that should perform well for a sensor test. (*Disclaimer* Doive accepts no responsibility for damage resulting from the meters use!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-April-2005 at 08:14

what no warranty!?!

thanks for your patience guys.

I had a look at the pico website and the kit seems to do a lot. One thing that puzzled me was there was no mention of hardware to connect to the car, although you could download a trial of the software for free?!?

Must be something for you wiseguys!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2005 at 16:44

Hi Sleeper and all,

I assume you are trying to monitor the oxygen sensor signal on your car, and your car is fitted with a Zirconia sensor. 

The first thing that you should be aware of is that the sensor should very rarely show a steady voltage. A zirconia sensor should switch between about .2 and .8 volts when the mixture is correct. This switching should happen at a rate of about 1 hertz (once per second), very often much quicker. No cheap multimeter will be capable of displaying this, they are much too slow. The Pico is a great tool to use for something like this as it is so fast. The only reason it is so cheap is that you use a lappy or desktop iin place of the usual hardware you would need to buy in a dedicated scope.

The O2 sensor (oxygen sensor) measures the amount of oxygen in the exhaust gases. This is directly related to the mixture (air/fuel) being burned in the combustion chamber. The min and max signal voltage as well as the frequency of the switching rate are all very important to the ECM (engine control module) as it uses this to choose the level of fueling required by the engine. 

This is quite a complex subject (and i am just in from the pub :) ), but if you have any specific questions, please ask and I will be happy to try and answer them.

regards

Alan 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 18:05

Any decent digital multimeter would be able to measure an oxygen sensor oscilliating, but would not show very accurately as it would not react quick enough.

The only way you would see exactly what was happening, is with an oscilliscope.

A cheap one would cost you around £100, but would be pointless to check a lambda probe every now and again if this is all you want to do.

Easiest solution is to buy a lambda probe tester from the likes of Euro car parts.

Think these were around £15 mark.

Very basic, black plastic box with led on it and a few wires coming out.

Connect to lambda signal wire and red led flashes everytime signal oscilliates.

Would tell you if  sensor was working or not, but thats about it.

Cheaper solution still would be to get local Mot station to carry out emissions test on gas analyser.

If passes, then lambda probe, cat and various other sensors are doing there job.

If you do not know what you are doing, I would stay well away from the engine management system with a multimeter.

If you happen to connect the meter to any wire in the system when set to measure resistance, then if the componant is still connected to the ecu, then you will cause serious damage.

Check my sig

regards,

 

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