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filipharvey View Drop Down
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: R12 Air Con woes!
    Posted: 09-September-2005 at 13:26

I have an E34 525iseA with R12 aircon that needs a recharge. I have seen drop-in substitutes about and was wondering if these were safe to use. BMW quoted me over a grand to convert to R134a and an Indy was around £300. (WAY to much!)

Even though (I think)  it is empty of the gas, shouldn't it still put some kind of strain on the engine at idle? Mine doesnt and was wondering if it may be an electrical fault as to why the aircon isn't working??? Possibly a relay but I have no idea which one is for the aircon!

HELP!!!!!!
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Brucey View Drop Down
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Points: 744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-September-2005 at 13:21

there is usually an elelctric clutch on the front of the compressor. You can see if this is engaging when you turn the AC on. If not, check its feed, then the fues, the relay etc etc.

You should be able to get your R12 system converted to a 'mixed gas' system for about 170 quid- irrc someone was quoted that by munich legends recently. This is cheap but not so good as the original R12, apparently.

cheers

 

~~~~~~~ Brucey   ~~~~~~
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Andy K

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Points: 874 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-September-2005 at 16:20

Hi fella, i have had an e34  converted from r12  to R134a it cost me £64 plus £20 for two new valves and i run that for a number of years with no problems not that there should be any, ive known a number of people who have had to replace there r12 with r134a but never have i heard of anyone paying that sort of money.

If your in the south i can recommend a company

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filipharvey View Drop Down
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-September-2005 at 16:25

Norfolk mate!

Was that including charge up?
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Brucey View Drop Down
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Points: 744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-September-2005 at 14:15

apparently not all compressors are definitely 143a compatible.

But if someone knows of a good source I am interested too... 

cheers

 

~~~~~~~ Brucey   ~~~~~~
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Andy K

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Points: 874 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-September-2005 at 14:17
Originally posted by filipharvey filipharvey wrote:

Norfolk mate!

Was that including charge up?

That included the convertion a full system check, drain old r12 supply and fit new valves and a refill with r134a.



Edited by b8alk
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filipharvey View Drop Down
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-September-2005 at 15:04
Anyone know of a company in norfolk/national who could do it for that sort of price?
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Brucey View Drop Down
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Points: 744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-September-2005 at 17:01

who done it then?

 

~~~~~~~ Brucey   ~~~~~~
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Nigel View Drop Down
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Points: 6941 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-September-2005 at 17:32

I'd be interested too !

I can see a convoy forming to this place, a BMWCC aircon meet !
Best Wishes

Nigel

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filipharvey View Drop Down
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-September-2005 at 17:38

Why did they have to go and make R12 illegal anyway?!?!?

A bit of CFC never hurt anyone!

Anyhow, theres no point having that button staring at you in the burning sunshine (lol) if it dont work!!!
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Andy K

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Points: 874 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-September-2005 at 14:45

I don`t know what would you fella`s do without me?

Clickety click     

Don`t answer that

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filipharvey View Drop Down
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2005 at 10:19
They said £120 + VAT. Cheers mate. Dunno if I will be able to get to kent for a while tho!
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Andy K

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Points: 874 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2005 at 12:33

Originally posted by filipharvey filipharvey wrote:

They said £120 + VAT. Cheers mate. Dunno if I will be able to get to kent for a while tho!

Was that including everthing? if so still a good price, just gone up a little since i last used them, but still better than paying silly money

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filipharvey View Drop Down
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2005 at 14:06
Complete conversion. Obviously more if any parts need replacing.
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BMW E34 525i SE (2.7 ETA Conversion w/Schrick Cam)
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Points: 1095 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-September-2005 at 17:08
I had replacement r12 gas put in me e23 and it was fine.  Not shoer what the gas is but the oil is slightly thicker, Are con gas shout be changed/serviced evry 2 years, as the oil can get low and doesn't protect the system.
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Points: 66 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-September-2005 at 17:30
Hi Guys,

The £300 retrofit should have been a strip down of the system, flush the old mineral oil out, replace the reciever drier, replenish with PAG lubricant, replace the service ports, vacuum the system and recharge the system, leaving a sticky label over the old green label stating the refrigerant type and quantity. The hoses and seals should be fine for R134a on a 1990 car as they anticipated the change in 1992 and so used compatible components. Replacement refrigerants such as R413a (Isceon 49) work fine on this era vehicle and should give little trouble. The problems arise when an R12 system is charged with R134a as the system is lubricated rather like a two stroke engine, the lubricant is carried by the refrigerant, unfortunately the mineral oil used in R12 systems is not miscible in R134a and so will not properly lubricate the compressor. Seventies and eighties cars have an added issue because the drier packs and seals were not compatible with R134a and so do need to be stripped and rebuilt.

Expect a 1990 E34 to need a new condenser.
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Points: 66 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-September-2005 at 03:44

Hi, I was reading through this thread and I don't think the original question was answered. Can "drop-in R12 replacement" be used?

I've got an '89 btw how do I tell if it has been converted or not?

Cheers
Cheers

Henrik Morsing
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Points: 66 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-September-2005 at 05:15
Sorry Volvo,

The short answer is yes, but I would regard it better to cary out a full retrofit, but when you are talking of hundreds of pounds on a fifteen year old car, then it depends on a lot of factors.

The replacement refrigerants are blends of a number of refrigerants, a large part of Isceon 49 (R413a) is R134a with a small amount of an other refrigerant to carry the lubricant and it works OK

The term "Retrofit" means many things to many men, to me a retrofit means strip the system, flush and rebuild, not cheap. Others will use replacement refrigerant and call that a retrofit, some will use retrofit kits which is an oil that is carried by R134a but it will leave the old oil in to slug round the system (The Yanks call 'em "Death kits") so do make sure what they are going to do before you hand over your car.

There is no real way to know for sure if your car has been retrofitted or how because few people do the job right, but a good auto ac engineer should have a refrigerant identifier and will be able to tell you what refrigerant you have in your system, if not, run away
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ally View Drop Down
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Points: 1529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-September-2005 at 16:34

You can tell what refrigerant it is by pressure & ambient temperature.

If a drop in is used, you should only have to change the oil, the drier core & expansion valve.

 
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Points: 66 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-October-2005 at 12:02
The theory is correct, but you must bear in mind that refrigerants used in automotive aplications generally are designed to have similar pressure charecteristics to each other to within a few pounds, is a set of gauges really that accurate?

Also half of the circuit is outside in ambient, half is inside at a different temperature, which temperature do you use?
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