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David Foster View Drop Down
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Joined: 13-October-2005
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Help required please! New 7 series engine
    Posted: 13-October-2005 at 02:27

I wonder if anyone can be of help to me please. My father runs '97 R plate 728i which is a little poorly. I understand that it has lost compression in a couple of the cyclinders owing to the wearing of the coating. Additionally, and I understand that it is a linked condition perhaps, it overheats and after having taken the car to a non franchised BMW specialist, has been advised that it needs a reconditioned or perhaps new engine. My father and I have started looking for engines using the internet etc and I suddenly thought of contacting the BMW Owners Club to see if anyone could point us in the right direction.

The car is still in quite nice nick and runs lovely. My parents also tow a rather heavy caravan which the car copes with admirably, so it seems very sad to me that poor old Dad is contemplating cutting his losses and has mentioned that he popped into the ..wait for it...Kia dealers the other day looking at a Sorrento...yes my thoughts exactly so if I can help him keep running the Beemer I'd be very happy indeed as it's such a lovely car.

Apparently a new engine could cost up to four grand with a re-con up to half that cost so I would be grateful if any member with useful advice could contact me so that I can help Dad keep a lovely motor on the drive and not spend many more thousands of pounds on a far eastern nondescript van with windows.

We are in Kettering in the Midlands and should anyone with to call me please do so on 01536 520491 or 07952 655322.

With many grateful thanks.

David Foster
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Philip View Drop Down
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E23 the forgotten 80s BMW

Joined: 28-January-2005
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Points: 1425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 03:46

if no-one here can help, try these dudes

http://www.bmw7resource.co.uk/forum/index.php
Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer
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7 series & e36 m3 registrar! (Madness)

Joined: 17-October-2002
Location: Good Old Hertfordshire
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Points: 1644 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 04:10
David
Sorry to hear it, this is a common problem that maybe you should approach BMW on.
The 2.8's of this era were fitted with an engine with the wrong 'coating' of nikasil to the bores, which over time was worn away by our petrol! The problems it causes is as your dad's car is suffering. BMW replaced a lot of engines under warranty and this included e36's and e38's.
Try them first, and if you get no joy, try the likes of FAB or some of the other well known BMW breakers. You'll get a better deal and an engine that will be garuanteed for a while.

AG
we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner.....
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E23 the forgotten 80s BMW

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Points: 1425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 04:12

AG,

I thought only early V8s had the Nikasil issue?

I thought 6 cyl engines (and V12's) were OK?

I'm more confused than ever now.

 
Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer
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7 series & e36 m3 registrar! (Madness)

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Points: 1644 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 04:13
FAB

These guys would be a good bet.

AG
we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner.....
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7 series & e36 m3 registrar! (Madness)

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Points: 1644 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 04:14
no, some of the straight 6's were affected as well.
I know of a few 728's that had to have the engine replaced due to this problem.
we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner.....
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Philip View Drop Down
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Points: 1425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 04:15

for once, I'm glad I can't afford an e38

how come this issue was not discovered during engine development?

surely they use normal retail petrol to test engines, or was UK petrol different to the German brew?

Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer
'85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ
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7 series & e36 m3 registrar! (Madness)

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Points: 1644 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 04:42
It was a UK only problem, as we appear to have a higher sulpher content I believe than other european countries.
Majority of the cars affected were sorted by BMW, but few slipped through the net (as per Dave's dads one!)
we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner.....
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Philip View Drop Down
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Points: 1425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 08:12

extra Nikasil info:

Was my car affected?

The cars/engines affected were:

E34 530i (V8)
E34 540i
E39 520i
E39 523i
E39 528i - Andy G was right!

All cars built from Week 10 (March 1998) had a new block and were not affected by Nikasil.

Note: American M52 Engines never suffered from the Nikasil issue (thanks to Shawn_D for clarifying that the M60 engines DID)

A detailed explanation of the Nikasil issue can be found HERE

A 30 second Nikasil check can be found HERE (Thanks to Russ for this information)

Another Link About Nikasil

 
Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer
'85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ
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Points: 1644 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 08:41
nice one Phil!
we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner.....
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E23 the forgotten 80s BMW

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Points: 1425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 08:43

can't think now why I thought it was a V8 only issue

4 pots & v12s seem to be in the clear though
Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer
'85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ
'86 E28 528iA SE - Dia Black - Helga
'86 E23 728iA SE - Polaris - The CHAV mobile
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Chas C View Drop Down
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Points: 1620 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 11:24

A lot depends on which part of the UK the car comes from.  Apparently, the sulphur content of petrol in the uk varies across regions with the midlands/north of engerland being the worst affected in the past.

The V8s seem to suffer more of it that the sixes for some reason which is why the problem is perceived to be limited to them.

I heard a real horor story recently from a BMW mechanic who was trying to MoT a 540.  The lambda sensors were coated with oil which played havoc with the emmissions.  The mechanic removed and cleaned the sensors just before the test but still had a problem.  He removed them again only to find them covered in oil again after just 5 minutes of running!!

My 2.8 has covered 135k miles and registered 0.01 ppm on emissions so I reckon it is still in rude health

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Joined: 21-October-2002
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Points: 599 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2005 at 15:46
Definately try a BM dealer for warranty replacement of the block. Read recently of an almost 10year old 5 series that had it's block replaced under waranty and it did not have FSH. BTW, I think the new EU ruling on 'block exemption' might be in your favour if the dealer rejects the claim. If they do, insist on a meeting with the BMW zone Technical Manager.
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Del64 View Drop Down
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Joined: 16-December-2002
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Points: 420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-October-2005 at 08:27
If the car has a full BMWMDSH they "can" still view the matter on the goodwill program. This is not an official activity and is taken on a case by case basis.
The Nikasil becomes a major hazard on cars that have lived in areas of high sulphur fuel content and also critically short motor runs when it is never given enough time to warm through properly. This factor alone has seen off more engines than the fuel incidentally.
On a brighter note the M52 short motor is £600 from the dealer where an M60 is about three thousand so if all else fails,,,
At times too I know of some members on the www.the7seriesregister.co.uk getting parts supplied and they pay labour on cars that fell outside the criteria of a full free replacement.
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Points: 4000 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-October-2005 at 08:42
Originally posted by Chas C Chas C wrote:

My 2.8 has covered 135k miles and registered 0.01 ppm on emissions so I reckon it is still in rude health

Chas, I seem to recall reading somewhere that Alpina's didn't use the nikasil blocks for some reason.  Not sure if its true but maybe someone else can confirm or deny!
Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

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Points: 1620 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-October-2005 at 12:42

The Alpina 3.0, 3.2 and 3.3 engines are based on the M52 block of the 2.8 engine (whereas the Alpina 2.8 used the M50 block).  Alpina replace the pistons with forged Mhale items but I don't know if they use different liners.  I don't recall reading that they do so it's feasible they could suffer the nikasil issue too?

I have seen quite a few adverts recently for 3.2 / 3.3 Alpinas which have had engine replacements due to oil consumption...

But don't quote me on it

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Points: 4000 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-October-2005 at 13:06
Originally posted by Chas C Chas C wrote:

 (whereas the Alpina 2.8 used the M50 block). 

That sounds more like what I read....  Thanks!
Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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Points: 420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-October-2005 at 14:04
The M52 block is only around £600 for the short motor from the dealer have you actually contacted them as that would be the easiest solution.
I myself are involved in (as an Admin on) www.the7seriesregister.co.uk however no 7 based forum is at the stage where we have M52 lumps floating round it's still too fresh only a place like FABdirect.co.uk or even Leicestershire BMW breakers can assist as luckily for you the lump is used in e36 and e39 as well so quite wide spread.

I hope this is of some real use to you to speed the search process
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Points: 1644 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2005 at 11:10
I believe Alpina used different liners on some of their engines, something to do with higher running temperatures etc (but don't quote me on it!) but I have heard of their later cars suffering from high oil usage (mainly the e46 B3.3's etc) and these engines have been changed either under warranty, or under the goodwill gesture often mentioned.
we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner.....
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Points: 632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2005 at 18:28
Alpina 3.0, 3.2 and 3.3's use the iron block bottom
end from the E36 M3.
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