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thepits 
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
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Points: 10000473
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 Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:40 |
 livvy wrote:
thepits wrote:
[QUOTE] Do you NEVER break ANY law EVER??? |
I don't think so, certainly not knowingly.
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:43 |
Floody wrote:
I'm with Thepits all the way on his posts,Livvy, are you
saying you have never been on a totaly empty m/way and gone over 70???
and on a rainy/thick fog/ thick traffic you would stay at 70??
Me (could get busted for this)!!! m/way dry, 4am 100 +
M/way thick fog,/ thick rain/snow/ice /heavy traffic,or road work's I'm the guy in the in side lane 
speed limit's should be down to condition's not the road |
Where is everybody getting that I am saying you should always be driving at the limit irrespective of conditions ?
I am saying you shouldn't be above it irrespective of conditions.
You shoudl only be driving at a speed safe for the circumstances up to
it. So in thick fog you certainly wouldn't be driving at the limit if
vision didn't allow it. You should always be able to stop in the
distance you can see to be clear on yoru side of the road.
If you drive at 100mph on the motorway at whatever time or conditions,
then you are risking your licence & livelyhood if you rely on it.
For me that would be madness.
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:45 |
livvy wrote:
Things have changed since they were introduced, far more cars on the
road, far less tolerance, far more aggressiveness, far more road rage,
far less patience, far less courtesy. |
Why are these things not targeted? Why are people allowed to park in
the middle lane for 50 miles down a motorway? Why aren't people at
least lambasted for driving stupidly? How often do you see people who
aren't even aware that an emergency vehicle with blues and two's is
trying to get past them? Or anyone else for that matter?
You are correct: less tolerance, less courtesy, more aggro, less
patience. Why? Because driving is deeply unpleasant: you pay the earth
for rubbish roads and advertising campaigns that demonise you. You are
monitored for a trivial infraction and penalised blindly and
arbitrarily. No sign of any improvement in your lot appears anywhere.
Lots of talk from politicians about making it even more draconian.
But it's OK. Stick up some more cameras. People will drive more slowly. That will fix everything.
(I'm hoping that if I say it enough I might start to believe it.)
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Ciao,
Spokey
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:45 |
livvy wrote:
I drive over quite a bit of the country, I've been driving 22 years. I see very few Police doing any speed enforcement at all. I do see Camera Partnerships, but not regular Police. I do see them running around to other stuff & dealing with collisions though.
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:46 |
Livvy
We need correct, applicable, and well placed sinage.
We do not have this in all cases now, we also have a lot of pc sinage, I often drive in wales, and welsh police officers I know recognise this problem, you have welsh/englsih, them english/welsh, then the two side by side variants.
You have a lot of incorrect sinage, speed limit signs with no background, with yellow , green, and even blue ( on A roads !)
You have speed limit signs which aren't speed limit signs, they look real but have black borders, after the area they are dealing with has finished, you then don't have another correct limit sign, how many people here know what a speed limit sign with a black border means ?
You have the highways agency at the end of speed limit roadworks putting road works end signs, but not returning you to the correct speed limit, when challenged they say you should know that the speed limit has changed as the road works have ended, then on another stretch of road you have a quarter of a mile after the road works have ended sign a speed limit sign returning you to nsl, and inbetween the two is a speed camera.
The big problem here is we have a lot of drivers who haven't kept themselves to at least dsa pass level, instead of addressing this in the correct way, they are attempting to dumb down the rest of us to that level via restrictions, .........we don't like it.
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:47 |
livvy wrote:
If you drive at 100mph on the motorway at whatever time or conditions, then you are risking your licence & livelyhood if you rely on it. For me that would be madness.
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Even though the law is an ass?
Edited by thepits
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Cats know your every thought.
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:48 |
thepits wrote:
Thanks Floody!
I've said it before - so I'll say it (yet!) again
Speed does NOT kill!
Inappropriate USE of speed DOES! |
I agree and haven't said otherwise.
It is inappropriate speed that kills not speed itself.
But that doesn't mean you can decide on the appropraiteness of speed
above our limits. Well actually you can because of persoanl choice, but
in doing so you have to accept that you render yourself open to
prosecution if caught & in knowing that it would be nobodies fault
but your own if you were prosecuted.
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Floody
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 14-April-2004
Location: U.K Darlington (Croft)!!
Status: Offline
Points: 1339
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:48 |
thepits wrote:
Floody wrote:
I'm with Thepits all the way on his posts, Livvy, are you saying you have never been on a totaly empty m/way and gone over 70??? and on a rainy/thick fog/ thick traffic you would stay at 70?? Me (could get busted for this)!!! m/way dry, 4am 100 + M/way thick fog,/ thick rain/snow/ice /heavy traffic,or road work's I'm the guy in the slow lane speed limit's should be down to condition's not the road |
Thanks Floody!
I've said it before - so I'll say it (yet!) again
Speed does NOT kill!
Inappropriate USE of speed DOES! |
That " My Honour" is the case for the "Defence"  Over to the prosecution?? and more money in the bank??????????
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Mark E30 M3 RHD!!! now sold !!! still crying!!!!
E36 318 is in technoviolet, for sale
Thank's for the photo Coasting, Flood's on tour!
 
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:49 |
thepits wrote:
livvy wrote:
If you drive at 100mph on the motorway at whatever time
or conditions, then you are risking your licence & livelyhood if
you rely on it. For me that would be madness.
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Even though the law is an ass? |
In your opinion, not in mine.
As I said you OR I can take the chance, but then we are the asses if we don't want to get caught.
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:55 |
We will never agree on this!
The current speed limits as applied are stupid and a hang-over from bygone days.
Never-the-less they are the law, so the name of the game is.....
Don't get caught! 
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Cats know your every thought.
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Floody
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 14-April-2004
Location: U.K Darlington (Croft)!!
Status: Offline
Points: 1339
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:57 |
Come on livvy, lets get in the real word. I go down to Southampton from Durhan 5/6 time's a year to see my daughter. Sometimes I get away at 4/5am, in the summer me 100+,hit traffic down to 40/50, or even 30, if the nutter's are on the road, then if it's empty back to 100+, I like it think im a good driver. Speed limits should change according to conditons 4 am 100 4pm 40, let's get real
Edited by Floody
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Mark E30 M3 RHD!!! now sold !!! still crying!!!!
E36 318 is in technoviolet, for sale
Thank's for the photo Coasting, Flood's on tour!
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 19:59 |
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We need a tierd system of limits, depending on what licence you hold
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:02 |
Unfortunately Floody that is so right.
In the "good old days" if caught speeding (100mph at 3am on the M1) by a real Policeman there was a chance he would have used his discretion.
Cameras? no chance!
Computers??? Pah!!!!!!!!!! 
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Cats know your every thought.
But don't care.
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:03 |
Nigel wrote:
Livvy
We need correct, applicable, and well placed sinage.
We do not have this in all cases now, we also have a lot of pc
sinage, I often drive in wales, and welsh police officers I know
recognise this problem, you have welsh/englsih, them english/welsh,
then the two side by side variants.
You have a lot of incorrect sinage, speed limit signs with no background, with yellow , green, and even blue ( on A roads !)
You have speed limit signs which aren't speed limit signs, they look
real but have black borders, after the area they are dealing with has
finished, you then don't have another correct limit sign, how many
people here know what a speed limit sign with a black border means ?
You have the highways agency at the end of speed limit roadworks
putting road works end signs, but not returning you to the correct
speed limit, when challenged they say you should know that the speed
limit has changed as the road works have ended, then on another stretch
of road you have a quarter of a mile after the road works have ended
sign a speed limit sign returning you to nsl, and inbetween the two is
a speed camera.
The big problem here is we have a lot of drivers who haven't kept
themselves to at least dsa pass level, instead of addressing this in
the correct way, they are attempting to dumb down the rest of us to
that level via restrictions, .........we don't like it. |
If the signs are not to spec they are not enforceable so you have an
outer if prosecuted, but even if they aren't to spec don't dismiss them
they may hold valueable information to build into your driving plane.
Yes it is dumbing down, but you say yourself that peopel don't keep
their skills upto date. Better than that we account for it with our
limits.
Setting higher limits just means that those you have identified will
drive at them because they don't think they are poor & that will
increase danger. Better to have limits that all should be able to cope
with hazards in rather than have them that only the best can &
encourage those with less skill to travel at.
Speed may not be the major factor in most collisions, but reducing it
could be a major factor in reducing collisions, because it gives people
that golden nugget *time*. Time to cover their other inadequacies &
aboid the collision. Speed just serves to exaggerate those inadequacies
instead.
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:04 |
Nigel wrote:
We need a tiered system of limits, depending on what licence you hold |
Elucidate oh wise one!
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Cats know your every thought.
But don't care.
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:05 |
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So taitors to those of us that bother to keep our skills up then ?
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:05 |
thepits wrote:
Unfortunately Floody that is so right.
In the "good old days" if caught speeding (100mph at 3am on the M1)
by a real Policeman there was a chance he would have used his
discretion.
Cameras? no chance!
Computers??? Pah!!!!!!!!!! |
Cameras are actually set in line with ACPO guidelines, so they are
infact set to prosecute at speeds which the Assosciation Of Chief
Police Officers decree is the minimum for which action should be taken.
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:05 |
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Cameras are not set in line with apco guidelines....do you have access to the IAM forum Livvy ?
Edited by Nigel
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:06 |
Nigel wrote:
So taitors to those of us that bother to keep our skills up then ? |
No, you will benefit from the extra safety zone that your skills create for you. Those skills don't mean that you can speed.
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thepits
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-July-2003
Location: far far away
Status: Offline
Points: 10000473
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Posted: 12-November-2005 at 20:07 |
livvy wrote:
people don't keep their skills up to date. Better than that we account for it with our limits.
Setting higher limits just means that those you have identified will drive at them because they don't think they are poor & that will increase danger. Better to have limits that all should be able to cope with hazards in rather than have them that only the best can & encourage those with less skill to travel at. |
Wrong - better to make people improve there skills, why do we always want to dumb down??
livvy wrote:
Speed may not be the major factor in most collisions, but reducing it could be a major factor in reducing collisions, because it gives people that golden nugget *time*. Time to cover their other inadequacies & aboid the collision. Speed just serves to exaggerate those inadequacies instead.
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could be ??
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Cats know your every thought.
But don't care.
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