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mikerd4 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-December-2005 at 07:49

Bloody hell never met a guy whos logged his fuel for that long!  You must do a lot of motorway miles cos around dublin Id be lucky to get those returns in a  323.

Its purely a wallet decision, if you can face up to paying the extra in tax and insurance for owning it.  My own personal opinion is if Im going to pay that I may aswell stump the extra and buy a earlier M3 thatsd been well looked after.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-December-2005 at 06:05

I've had my 328i for 18 months now. The main running worry for people is fuel and tax. Here's my fuel log for the time I've had it:

328i Miles Litres MPG
394 56.5 31.66
739 107.5 31.21
374 55 30.87
573 84 30.97
275 42 29.73
401 55 33.10
347 56.2 28.05
389 56.4 31.31
784 108 32.96
430 58.6 33.31
407 55.6 33.23
412 56 33.40
346 46.9 33.49
393 58 30.76
818 128 29.01
313 54 26.32
264 44.8 26.75
406 59 31.24
356 53 30.50
416 63.22 29.87
667 102 29.69
748 114 29.79
461 86.5 24.20
304 55 25.09
237 42 25.62
342 49 31.69
379 54.4 31.63
387 56.5 31.10
411 55.3 33.74
277 48 26.20
553 87 28.86
418 70 27.11
261 40.5 29.26
384 57 30.59
416 74 25.52
329 52 28.72
357 53 30.58
290 48 27.43
397 54 33.38
401 55 33.10
384 59 29.55
485 71 31.01
338 57 26.92
372 58 29.12
543 76 32.44
944 137.22 31.23
447 68 29.84
880 145 27.55
410 67 27.78
585 81 32.79
359 54 30.18
391 55 32.28
628 111 25.69
571 94 27.58
339 59 26.09
375 56 30.40
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24907 3799.11 29.76

In day to day running, a stock 323i is nearly the same car. But take  that attitude you may as well get a 318is - the returns always diminish the more horse/bigger engine you get - I think Martins points are particularly relevent here. You can bump the 323 up to 328 power as mentioned, but the same conversion will bump a 328 (rolling roaded at 200bhp+ in stock anyway) to 215+bhp. Add an exhaust and a chip to this and you're approaching 230bhp and more for some of the UK members. And buckets of torque giving it a slightly lazier drive for decent speed.

I've got a nice spec as it is a non-sport, but has full leather, and a factory-fit LSD. This transforms the car. And with the AC Schnitzer suspension it is like a M3-lite with less tax, insurance, and fuel bills. And damn near as quick around a circuit like Mondello.

In terms of resale, one of the earlier comments (by Dergside I think?) is spot on. Tis a sleeper at the mo, but a clean well-specced one will be a natural progression from E30 325i sports as they become more expensive and rarer. 



Edited by T.J.
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Formerly E39 TDS, E36 M3, E36 328i, E34 525i, E34 518i
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 16:24
Having owned a 328 and an M3, I'd go back to a 328 before an E36 M3 Evo.  As I said the E36 M3 Evo is a superb car but having had both on track and on the road, a 328 will give an M3 a run for its money.

It may not have it in top end or on a long straight but through the twisty bits its virtually as good.  I loved the M3 but to extract its true potential for track use would cost a mint and totally compromise it on the road.  On the road the 328 upset just as many scoobies, TTs etc etc as the M did and the overall cost of ownership was far lower on the 328.

I would buy another 328 but I don't think I'd buy another E36 M3 Evo (my one was a beauty as the lads can testify), I'd much prefer an E30 M3 as I reckon its a lot more fun. The M3 Evo was only starting to wind up on the wrong side of 100mph.

I can't comment on the non Vanos M3 but for regular road use in Ireland I'd personally go with the 325, 323 or 328.

If you don't want to modify to extract the power and want the best bang for your buck then I'd choose the 325, Older, cheaper, no engine mods to affect your insurance, virtually the same power as the 328 with the tax of the 323. Leaves money to get a LSD and totally upgrade the suspension and brakes.

Talk to TJ as he has added an LSD and trick suspension to his.


Edited by BM Fan
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1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 13:49

I have a 97 323i coupe sean.I find that it has plenty of grunt and it'll pull like a train once you're over 3k rpm.I hav'nt driven a 328i but i would imagine it's biggest advantage over the 323i would be slightly more grunt lower down in the revs.As the figures go the 323i has 170 bhp as standard,the 328i has 193.You can extract 200 plus bhp from the 323i easily and inexpensively enough:(bbtb,manifold,remap,exhaust,ca induction) .My 323i has been dyno'd at 185bhp with just the eisenmann cat-back exhaust.That's getting close to standard 328i power anyway.It's up to you at the end of the day.But if it were me id go for a non evo e36 m3 before id change my 323 for a 328 tbh.

Another note on the nikasil issue.The quality of fuel has improved a lot with regard to sulpher content since 1996(when the affected cars were produced)and it was'nt actually a design fault with the engines,it was caused by low grade fuel with high sulpher content reacting over time with material in the cylinder bores.I think that people are overreacting a bit on the nikasil thing.If a 323i or 328i is on it's original nikasil block and has 70k or more miles on it without having any symtoms of premature cyl-bore wear then it will prob.go on to do 200k or more with no nikasil issue because this problem normally appeared at lower milages(30-40k miles).And how many of thes cars are left that have less than 40k miles considering they were only produced up until 99.

My 323i is on it's original block afaik,has no nikasil issue,no excess oil use,no power loss(185bhp on dyno) and there is 91k miles on her now!.And im not planning to sell it any time soon.

E36 323i coupe,E30 325sport.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 13:38

follow your heart if you want it, your head if you dont lol

Im seriously thinking of getting a E90 and saying feck it all after seeing the pics of the essen show, now whos mad lol


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 12:38
Here you go - may be of some help

Don't all go downloading together and crash my server

E36 Coupe buying guide
Martin
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2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 11:04
The original E36 325 had 192 Bhp
328 launched in 1996 had 193bhp restricted for German tax purposes if I am correct
325 launched in 1996?? was restricted to 173bhp as per above not impact 328 sales

The 325 inlet manifold can be fitted to either engine (I believe) and with the BBTB shows a gain of 15 - 20 bhp in both cases.

BHP is one thing - torque is a bigger factor, some figures below, BTW most magazine test have the 328 at sub 7 secs 0-60

320i
1991cc, 150 bhp @ 5900 rpm
140 lbf.ft @ 4200 rpm
0-62 mph: 9.9 secs (10.6 auto)
Max speed: 134 mph (134)
Economy: 31.4 mpg (28)

323i
2494cc, 170 bhp @ 5500 rpm
181 lbf.ft @ 3950 rpm
0-62 mph: 8.0 secs (9.0)
Max speed: 141 mph (139)
Overall economy: 31.4 mpg (28)

325i
2494cc, 192 bhp @ 5900 rpm
181 lbf.ft @ 4700 rpm
0-62 mph: 7.9 secs (8.9)
Max speed: 145 mph (144)
Overall economy: 28.2 mpg (29.6)

328i
2793cc, 193 bhp @ 5300 rpm
206 lbf.ft @ 3950 rpm
0-62 mph: 7.3 secs (7.8)
Max speed: 147 mph (144)
Overall economy: 30.7 mpg (27.7)
Martin
In BMW exile at the moment (Shame on me for lurking!!!)
Previous Models
2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 10:38

Originally posted by Fey! Fey! wrote:

Saw your car passing me by earlier on, Sean.  Sounds and looks VERY nice!
cheers, have seen yours quite a bit lately aswell

I kind of have my mind made up, but mike has a good point that i could get a 95 M3 for about that money. To be honest id rather a 328i sport because of running costs and the fact it will be a newer car. An e36 M3evo is simply out of the question as the VRT is stupid money on these and we dont even have the 98octane petrol in this country that is recommended for these cars. One disadvantage of the 328i over the M3 is the LSD. Would this affect the driving experience at all???? I believe traction(ASC) is on the later models of the 328i...

And Mike my current 318is has 123k miles on it and still sweet as a nut. Mileage dosent bother me as long as i have a history!

 

 



Edited by seanf

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 09:44

My car had 87000 miles when I bought it which does put people off especially with dealers reluctant to drop prices, But after speaking to my firiends in teh trade they hate taking big engined cars part ex and will give rock bottom trade ins on them as they hate having to shift them on.  That aside I have a bbtb and manifold on the 323 with a gruppe m rep, dyno'd at 191.6, a remap and exhaust should seee me touching 200.  The 323 was heavily restricted by bmw to stop it encroaching on sales of its bigger and more expensive brothers.  I love my 323, its the perfect mix of power and sensibility.  Only E36 Id look at is the M3 now.

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 09:29
Saw your car passing me by earlier on, Sean.  Sounds and looks VERY nice!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 09:24
Talk to T.J.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 08:54
I would go for the 323 myself. As already stated the only increase in running costs would be tax and insurance.

The big killer for you would be when you go to shift it. As its a 2.8 it will be very hard shift. Plus if you look at the prices of e36 m3's at the moment you can find some which (albeit may need a small tidy) but are making the same money and in some cases less money than 328's. Last weeks autotrader had a 96 m3 for £3750. Im speaking from personal expierience here as I have shifted 8 bimmers in the last 2 years inc 2 m3's!!

What hasn't been mentioned so far is the power. Power wise the 323 has 170bhp but is restricted. The 328 is 190 and is also restricted. But put the manifold and throttle bodies from an early e36 25 on and your up at 190bhp!! I think Adrian Healy did this on this e39 523. Its a popular mod that has been discussed and done plenty of times by people on this forum (do a search on the 3 series forum and you'll see what I mean!

Whatever you decide - best of luck!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 07:38

Originally posted by mikerd4 mikerd4 wrote:

My car was at the garage a long time beore I bought it and hence why I got a fair whack knocked off

Mike

If I recall correctly, your car also had an above average mileage when you bought it.  That will stop the phone ringing in this country.  In the UK, it simply gets factored in to the price and away you go.  Here people will ignore a leggy car, almost regardless of condition or price (unless the price is on the floor, but dealers aren't good about adjusting for mileage).

Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
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e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 03:56
When pricing insurance over the last few years I have noticed that there isn't much difference between a 2.5L and a 2.8L. In fact I could nearly go up to 4L without much, if any, change in price.
Tax though...
Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2005 at 02:35

I cant see there being a big leap in running costs between a 323 and 328 apart from tax and insurance and if you are willing to pay that then do it.

On the selling point, the market is very limited as it is on a lot of bigger engined cars in Ireland.  People struggle selling the bigger 6 cylinder versions but the 4 cylinder models go like hot cakes.  My car was at the garage a long time beore I bought it and hence why I got a fair whack knocked off, there is a mint 323 in my village that the lad couldnt shift for months even though the price was very good yet his friends 318 (lower spec same year) went within 3 days of being advertised! Very much horses for courses as a lot of people dont want to pay a grand in road tax (lets wait and see what myr Cowen announces!), but if you want it why worry about resale now?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-November-2005 at 19:07

Good luck with the buying, Sean.  Have to say, your current e36 looked great the other night!

KDevitt has an e46 328 - he should be able to give you an idea of running costs.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-November-2005 at 17:57

Sean

I have an e46 3233ci and sometime I have to admit I wish it had more power - go for the 328.

John

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-November-2005 at 17:49

Sean

One thought in regard to nikasil.  There are plenty of nikasil cars that have had the engine done by BMW and can be very good value if the overall mileage is reasonable and condition OK.  As you said, there is a big drop in VRT between '99 and '98.  Likewise there is a biggish drop to '97 as well.

If you went that route, you'd have to have a good paper record of the engine work done for the history file.  The sort of buyers for a car like this down the road will almost certainly be aware of "the nikasil issue" even if they don't know the full detail of what is affected and what's not.

Its justa pity that the M52TU engine didn't go in to the end of line e36's.  Now, that would have been X-tra nice!



Edited by Dergside
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-November-2005 at 17:35

the vrt on a 99 one is 3000, but a 98 is 2270 so in the new year the 99 will go down to around 2300 vrt. this aint bad considering and is cheaper than the non-sport model. i think ill go for the 328, because ill have it for a year or two and really do want it over the 323. i dont think the petrol/running costs will be much more than the 323 and i guess ill have to wait and see when i go to sell it. im only getting onw with a great history and it has to be mint so that will prob stand to it when selling time comes...

oh and guess whats the reason i want a 99??? nikasil



Edited by seanf

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-November-2005 at 17:07

Sean

Before I bought the current e36, my choices were going to be either the '93 or '94 (vanos but pre nikasil) 325i coupe or a late Sport.  I bought the 325i only because I would have wanted a post nikasil 328i (i.e. late '98 or '99).  These are relatively scarce in the UK and by the time it was landed and the dreaded VRT paid it would have cost twice the price of my car.  I may go the Sport route next time.  Curiously, VRT on a Sport is actually a little bit less than a regular coupe.  Go figure!

As regards resale, I think this one could be a sleeper over the next couple of years.  As e30 Sports get harder to come by in top condition (and get more expensive), there will be a move towards the e36.  These people will already be used to the road tax and insurance. 

There IS a market for cars like these but it is small, so condition and history is the key for a quick sale and a good price.  People will pay good money if the car is right.  My last e30 is an example, it was low owners with a full history and well above average condition.  It sold quickly and for a little more than I paid for it after 12 months and 8k miles (despite being rear ended shortly after buying it, otherwise I could have done even better).

There aren't too many 328i's about, Sport or otherwise, but in the long run a Sport will be more desirable in the same way that an e30 Sport is preferred to an SE, but its probably still a couple of years away before the difference between an e36 Sport and regular 328i coupe is significant here (the Sport being a little more expensive in the UK).

Does anyone know if the insurance co's load the Sport over a non-Sport 328i coupe (that might account for the VRT difference)?

Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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