BIG Brother Has arrived--NOW

livvy wrote: Your right you don't have the option of tearing them down, unless you want a criminal conviction. But of course no government will have them if they think that their proposed introduction would mean them not getting elected.

Therein lies the rub. People are led so gently up the garden path, they don't realise the negative consequences of things until it's too late. It also helps if you have some terrible threat (like, say, a terrorist attack) that you can use to justify it. When the terror is over, no-one will remember to offer those freedoms back to us.

You don't have the police saying things like: "with this technology we can see where every motorist has been, so that we can spy on lawful motorists." You hear them say things like: "we can use this to eliminate criminals from the road" or "we can monitor suspected terrorists much more easily" or even " Well they can stick one up outside my house, I'm all for it. Benefits outweigh any disadvantages in my book & I'll smile as I pass them all."

So that's alright, then.

livvy wrote: And why would the Police want to spy on lawful motorists ? What will they gain from spying on lawful motorists ? What do you think they are going to do with the information that I went to the supermarket at 3pm yesterday ? Do you really think they are putting up cameras to get that information ?

I don't know why they are putting them up. It's all very conveniently being rushed through without any kind of review or debate. That, in itself, is worrying.

All I know is: as a citizen of the UK, and a taxpayer, I resent people who are supposed to serve me being able to spy on me and making me pay for the privilege. Anything untoward that they do with it is even more of an insult.

They'll be too busy with the people they are really looking for to worry about my shopping habits.

It's not your shopping habits that they will be worried about. By then, Tesco will be 80% of the market, and they'll just nationalise it. Your entire loyalty card history will tell them exactly what they want to know. If Tesco doesn't share that with them already, in the name of national security.

It's going to be used to check on your associations, where you travel, do you stray over the speed limit, do you stay within the lines, do you overtake? Are you a risk taker? Perhaps you need to be watched!

(And if you think I'm being ridiculous about Tesco sharing your loyalty card details in the interests of national security, reflect on this: many components of home-made explosive devices are readily available in supermarkets. Just think about the government mining your shopping patterns to see if you [and any of your associates] have bought one or more components of a home-made bomb. Then just wait for the knock on the door. )

spokey wrote: spokey wrote: What do you think they are going to do with the information that I went to the supermarket at 3pm yesterday ? What are they going to do with the information that you went to the supermarket at the same time as a known Al-Qaeda operative? That you were both in the soap aisle at the same time? That you were just one queue away from him at checkout?

Why do you assume that the innocent are going to be targeted & not criminals ?
What purpose does that serve ?
Don't say look at speed cameras, because they don't target the innocent, they target those who are committing offences.

If they want to spy on you (as you call it) they can already within the law, so cameras don't change that. Why don't they spy on you in particular now ?
Because they aren't interested in you that's why.
Why do you think that with a limited amount of time & resources you are going to become a more interesting target because of cameras ?

For one , I don't have a loyalty card for Tesco's so that's put the brakes on that & if I did it would only show that I don't purchase the constituants or bomb making materials in the massive quantities that they do. Also I am rather reassured that they know where the terrorists are & the fact that I (along with many many other people) am in an aisle next to them means exactly what ?
What are they going to be able to deduce from the fact I was in an aisle next to a terrorist on one day, what evidence is that going to give them ?
There were people on the tube next to terrorists & on the bus next to terrorists in July & those people were victims. That's what I'd rather not be thanks & if cameras help in preventing that then good.

Lets not forget that it's not all about terrorism, their main benefit will be in helping the Police catch criminals, as I've already said the average arrest rate of ANPR officers is ten times that of other officers. Most things it will highlight is to help in catching people in stolen cars, who had jumped bail etc etc.


Edited by livvy

I'm dubious about these cameras Livvy, if everything is so good and above board, why, with all this technology, are they still sending out incorrect nips ?

livvy wrote: Lets not forget that it's not all about terrorism, their main benefit will be in helping the Police catch criminals, as I've already said the average arrest rate of ANPR officers is ten times that of other officers. Most things it will highlight is to help in catching people in stolen cars, who had jumped bail etc etc.

Yeah, sure. Cameras did a bang up job proving what happened with Jean de Menezes, didn't they?

livvy wrote: Nigel wrote: I'm dubious about these cameras Livvy, if everything is so good and above board, why, with all this technology, are they still sending out incorrect nips ? What exactly are you referring to Nigel & how will this technology affect that ? This technology is different & very simple in that it records,logs & checks indexes against a register highlighting those that are marked of interest already. There will of course be other search facilities for the past movements of vehicles that are of particular interest.

What I'm referring to Livvy, is the scamera agencies lack of ability to even look at the pictures before they send them out : http://www.traffic-answers.com/forum/index.php?topic=2768.0

To be honest, its just not good enough, and I couldn't imagine a police officer, on speed trap duty, making that mistake.

I'm not sure, ( as others have also stated), that I want my movements tracked.

I have absolutely no problem with rank and file police officers knowing anything about me, wonderful people that have my full support.

I don't trust their bosses though, or worse still, their bosses bosses.

It goes deeper than that Livvy, I remember a Russian lady who defected to the West, then went back again because she was actually more controlled in the West than the East.

Apart from the liberty issues, it will also allow this scum of a government to charge us per mile ,speed limt some of our cars etc, its all the same technology

 

spokey wrote: livvy wrote: Do you really think the Police have the time to look at the movements of people who they are not interested in to start with ? I work with, among other things, geospatial databases. The police have already said that they will be using these ANPR databases to monitor cars that travel in convoy with "dodgy" vehicles. It is the difference between SELECT * FROM movement_record WHERE registration_no = "L1VVY"; and SELECT * FROM movement_record WHERE within_distance("100 yards") AND registration_no =  "L1VVY"; All of a sudden, the police are interested in you.

And what in the absence of anything else will they find ?

That you on one day were travelling close to a car they were interseted in.........end of.

As I say that is something that could (& may have already happened to you) without your knowledge on many days & has it caused you any problems so far ?

 This new system is just the start--as the more aware on this website know,others of a naive belief - accept what they are told, without question.

This has resulted in some questions on our Freedom from state interference of which the Naive answer--the govt wouldnt risk upsetting the VOTING public-would they ??.Did YOU notice any items on these subjects in a Recent manifesto.?? IF they can lie, steal and cheat about Everything else-do you think they have even thought about the freedom of choice of the People.??? Its what They THINK they can get away with--before a peasant uprising-- BUT--they can check the camera,s first ----eh!!

The proposed road tolling system, using  chip inbedded number plates, which is already going/is being used in Germany in lorries, and with France will be spread to cars, as soon as they can manage the greater increase in system recording.ALL encouraged by the EEC as increasing income for member states.

The similar system is the one that has already been announced by Comrade darling for implementing within the next 5 years.This braindead excuse of govt slime, cannot get Anything right in whatever subject you wish to think of since election--so needing a subject  to say how clever they have "Solved" the gridlock no mobility conditions-they will give the Whole organisation of "Freedom with Toll Driving" to private orgs--who will do all the collection of £££,s and the private enforcement when the drivers dont pay by Automatic DD. You can rest assured of the SECURITY of your personal details--just like Father Christmas.

 When do YOU the Driver----decide to accept that "YOU know it makes Sense" is a defeatest brainwash--you can say NO--BUT--time is running out.

 

 

 

Edited by B 7 VP