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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 09:44 |
yeah - the pants on his head and pencils up his nose.....
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 09:43 |
sleeper wrote:
poor old pete - never hear the end of the honda thing! |
People can say anything they like about my car. The fact of the matter is it's more performance focused than any car BMW have made in the last 10 years
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 09:41 |
bmw1066 wrote:
Say's he who drives a Honda,
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Which is relevant why? It wouldn't matter if I drove a Lada, my opinion is as relevant as the next person. I also chose to buy a Honda instead of a BMW for a reason..............
Edited by Peter Fenwick
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 09:29 |
poor old pete - never hear the end of the honda thing!
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bmw1066
Really Senior Member II
GOOD OLD E23
Joined: 16-January-2005
Location: West Sussex Nr Brighton
Status: Offline
Points: 1095
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 09:12 |
Peter Fenwick wrote:
Coasting wrote:
I don't think the A6 competes with the 5-series well at all, and sales back that up. I might not like the shape of the 5 (and prefer the A6) but it's a remarkably good all rounder.
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i wouldn't have either. The 5 is ugly and the A6 bland. If I was in the market for a car like that i'd get a Jag XJ and sod the residuals. It might not be as sporting as a 5 but who buys a car that big to be sporting?
Coasting wrote:
The new A4 is better than the 3-series by quite some way in my opinion.
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Again wouldn't buy either, I'd get an Accord. I do like the Audi though.
Coasting wrote:
However, I'd take a 1-series over an A3 for the sheer fun in the drive. The 6-series doesn't have an Audi equal (yet) and I think the 7 and A8 are evenly matched.
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Don't like the 1 or the A3. Why spend that much on a hatchback. I'd get a second hand focus and spend what I'd saved on something for the weekend
Coasting wrote:
The TT is dated and one of the most boring cars of it's type I have ever driven (including the 3.2 DSG). On that basis I'd take a Z4.
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I'd get either a 350z or a Boxster.
Coasting wrote:
Finally, M cars on the whole still hold one over RS's - but the competition is all set to heat up in that area anyway so it'll be ineteresting to see what happens.
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The E46 M3 is still the car I'd go for in that sector; although I'd proabably end up buying a second hand 911 instead. The new RS4 looks the part and is supposed to be very good, but as i said earlier, EVO still rated the E46 M3 CS higher. The M5, no thanks. I don't see the point in trying to make a car that big and heavy sporty. All the reviews I've read say that it struggles to hide its weight when pushed hard. If you want a 5 get a standard one and with the change get a real sports car.
The only have to go into a BMW showroom to realise a lot of buyers are only after the badge.
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Say's he who drives a Honda,
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Mark 735 se 1982
RED BARON A E23 is for life not just for x-mas
BMW e34 530 v8 Sport kit
Spelling always Bad
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 09:04 |
Coasting wrote:
I don't think the A6 competes with the 5-series well at all, and sales back that up. I might not like the shape of the 5 (and prefer the A6) but it's a remarkably good all rounder.
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i wouldn't have either. The 5 is ugly and the A6 bland. If I was in the market for a car like that i'd get a Jag XJ and sod the residuals. It might not be as sporting as a 5 but who buys a car that big to be sporting?
Coasting wrote:
The new A4 is better than the 3-series by quite some way in my opinion.
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Again wouldn't buy either, I'd get an Accord. I do like the Audi though.
Coasting wrote:
However, I'd take a 1-series over an A3 for the sheer fun in the drive. The 6-series doesn't have an Audi equal (yet) and I think the 7 and A8 are evenly matched.
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Don't like the 1 or the A3. Why spend that much on a hatchback. I'd get a second hand focus and spend what I'd saved on something for the weekend
Coasting wrote:
The TT is dated and one of the most boring cars of it's type I have ever driven (including the 3.2 DSG). On that basis I'd take a Z4.
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I'd get either a 350z or a Boxster.
Coasting wrote:
Finally, M cars on the whole still hold one over RS's - but the competition is all set to heat up in that area anyway so it'll be ineteresting to see what happens.
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The E46 M3 is still the car I'd go for in that sector; although I'd proabably end up buying a second hand 911 instead. The new RS4 looks the part and is supposed to be very good, but as i said earlier, EVO still rated the E46 M3 CS higher. The M5, no thanks. I don't see the point in trying to make a car that big and heavy sporty. All the reviews I've read say that it struggles to hide its weight when pushed hard. If you want a 5 get a standard one and with the change get a real sports car.
The only have to go into a BMW showroom to realise a lot of buyers are only after the badge.
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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pma1ums
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-October-2004
Location: central uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1148
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 06:31 |
sleeper wrote:
pma1ums wrote:
iam not saying audis are bad far from it ;there great cars to drive and to own but not really in the same driver/involvement as a RWD car
dare i say it but arnt audi drivers a little bit boring in the fact they dont want to enjoy the driver involvment of say a RWD car
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get a peach of a drift on and then let your grin do the talking!!
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now your talking
ive yet to experiance the pleasure of getting a four wheel drive car sliding about on a race track ;untill then il just drift beemers about on them
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its a dogs world out there
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 05:02 |
pma1ums wrote:
iam not saying audis are bad far from it ;there great cars to drive and to own but not really in the same driver/involvement as a RWD car
dare i say it but arnt audi drivers a little bit boring in the fact they dont want to enjoy the driver involvment of say a RWD car
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get a peach of a drift on and then let your grin do the talking!!
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:59 |
pma1ums wrote:
lets face it chaps audis arnt really a drivers car[apart from RS types] theres very litlle driving experiance/feel in any audi that i have had the great pleasure in driving
even the latest RS types offer nothing more than a solid and a planted to the road feeling type of driving experiance;to me thats nothing but boring
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Was still surprises me is the difference between the standard FWD and the quattro with sport susp. & seats. If you drove the two blindfold () you could be forgiven for thinking they were from different manufacturers.
The A4 I use has the above sport bits, and there is more communication from the front wheels than my E36! (probably the weakest BMW in this area I know).
Having driven most models, I wouldn't buy one that wasn't sport equipped, if I had the money - RS6 all the way (& E34 & E39 M5, alpina B10 V8s, B10 Bi-Turbo, UR-Quattro, etc. etc.)
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pma1ums
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-October-2004
Location: central uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1148
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 03:59 |
lets face it chaps audis arnt really a drivers car[apart from RS types] theres very litlle driving experiance/feel in any audi that i have had the great pleasure in driving
even the latest RS types offer nothing more than a solid and a planted to the road feeling type of driving experiance;to me thats nothing but boring
on the other hand take all the driving aids off an e46 m3 and floor the thing hard around a race track then see what makes a car great rather than good
iam not saying audis are bad far from it ;there great cars to drive and to own but not really in the same driver/involvement as a RWD car
dare i say it but arnt audi drivers a little bit boring in the fact they dont want to enjoy the driver involvment of say a RWD car
Edited by pma1ums
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its a dogs world out there
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 10:49 |
Maybe I've just got used to seeing M3s - they don't seem to stand out
the way they did when they first came out - maybe it's all the replicas!
The S4 does stand out with those wheels. The slammed ride height is a
bit of a give away too. The standard car rode like a cart so gawd knows
what the S4's like.
I haven't driven the latest A4 or 3-series but on past experience I've no doubt the status quo remains unchanged.
I suppose I have "loyalties" to both but for different reasons. Which
you prefer is down to what your priorities are. Each to their own etc
but either is better than a C Class
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 09:43 |
AndyS wrote:
Like an S4 is any more understated than an M3! |
I think an S4 is significantly more understated than an M3, by a huge margin in fact!
It is very easy to mistake an S4 for any A4 if you don't catch sight of the rear tailpipes. An M3 is much more discernable as an M3 car with it's flared arches, bonnet, wing grilles, wheels etc etc.
Indeed, most S4 owners I know (and I know a good few) will say that and the V8 are the primary reasons for not buying an M3. In their opinion (not mine) the M3 is far too 'in your face'.
The new RS4 is a somewhat different animal of course, because that makes even an M3 look timid with it's stance. The flared arches are huge.
Ultimately, I'm not loyal to either. I'll buy whatever I think is the best car when I come to purchase it. If it's a BMW, I'll buy one. If it's an Audi, so be it.
As things stand right now we're not too far off changing my wifes 320d SE....and what will replace that is anyones guess! She changes her mind every day.
Edited by Coasting
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 07:54 |
There are indeed "badge buyers" on both sides.
As for Audi owners being more knowledgeable than BMW owners - give
over! A quick look over the internet will turn up far more sites for
BMW than Audi. Look at the number of books available for the two brands
- far more for BMW.
As for brand image, the power of advertising! Since Audi couldn't compete with BMW's sporting image they came up with the "I'm understated" image. Like an S4 is any more understated than an M3!
The main Unique Selling Point for buying an Audi seems to be (and this goes for Saab buyers too) is "Look!, I didn't buy a BMW".
I like Audis but they simply aren't as nice to drive as an equivelant BMW and I certainly don't drive as hard as some of you.
Also, why buy an A4 when a Passat is a cheaper stretched version or a
Skoda Superb is stretched again with even more kit? Such platform
sharing may make economic sense but it dilutes the brand too much. When
I had my A6 my Merc owning brother used to refer to it as a blinged up
Passat.
At least with a BMW I can retort that BMW don't make vans, buses, taxis & trucks!
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005
Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 07-January-2006 at 17:21 |
I agree with Coasting in saying that Audi owners like to be understated....I for one was and am a great believer in driving something that is somewhat unique. Most importantly, if funds allow
To me the 'M' is all too common now and lost its appeal to me,well the e46 anyway. I'm not faulting my car as it outpaces, outdrives and thumps some of the bigger toys. I guess it's a matter of personal taste as well loving the brand image that keeps me in it and probably good majority of 'm' drivers.
So is there a manufacturer that take me out this seat and into another....none so far.
Well....thats a lie. RR sport due in Mar/Apr and H.Fairbairns waiting/wishing list for the new M3/4??
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335d evolve 354bhp/742nm....M3 SEE YA!!
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
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Posted: 07-January-2006 at 14:08 |
Hmm, well I can't agree that Audi owners want people to know they can afford their cars.
If anything I'd say it's very much the opposite. From the people I know on TSN they'll all very quickly say it is the image of BMW that puts them off more than anything - they want the more anonymous or understated image of Audi.
I'd also disagree regarding the Audi brand appealing to people with no real interest in cars - in fact I think that too is more applicable to BMW owners, many of whom buy the badge.
In my experience Audi owners tend to know a great deal more about their cars than your average BMW owner.
I don't think the A4 is comprehensively beaten by the 3-series either, not by a very long way. I'd pick an A4 over a new 3-series every time as things stand right now.
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
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Posted: 07-January-2006 at 10:40 |
When it comes to the big 3, Mercedes have the image but have lost the
build quality card to Audi. BMW have the sporting credentials but it's
a moot point whether a lot of owners ever take up on this (how many 4x4
owners take their tractor off road?).
IMO Audi & Mercedes appeal to people who have no real interest in
cars but want a quality product &, more importantly, want people to
know they have the money to buy it (as opposed to a Golf etc).
Many people want a BMW for the sporting image & don't give a toss
about rwd balance etc. When their cars come up for sale they're the
ones with kerbed wheels, parking dents & tatty interiors, ie.
unloved.
While I thought my 80 was the business, I was disappointed with my A6.
Not because of it's poor ride & handling but because I just
respected it rather than loved it. Maybe it was because my E34 was a
hard act to follow although on paper the A6 was better in almost every
area. I don't miss the A6 but I do still miss the E34.
Audi have come a long way but the last stretch, comprehensively beating
BMW, is proving a tough hurdle. The A4 & A6 are still well beaten
by the 3 & 5-series in all areas except percieved build quality.
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
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Posted: 07-January-2006 at 07:32 |
I'd still give BMW the nod on the basis that their engines across the range still make Audi's seem poor by comparison.
I don't think the A6 competes with the 5-series well at all, and sales back that up. I might not like the shape of the 5 (and prefer the A6) but it's a remarkably good all rounder.
The new A4 is better than the 3-series by quite some way in my opinion. However, I'd take a 1-series over an A3 for the sheer fun in the drive. The 6-series doesn't have an Audi equal (yet) and I think the 7 and A8 are evenly matched.
The TT is dated and one of the most boring cars of it's type I have ever driven (including the 3.2 DSG). On that basis I'd take a Z4.
Finally, M cars on the whole still hold one over RS's - but the competition is all set to heat up in that area anyway so it'll be ineteresting to see what happens.
If there was one thing I wish BMW would bring up to Audi standards it is the paintwork - they're miles behind Audi in respect of the quality of finish. BMW paintwork also chips an awful lot easier in my experience.
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005
Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 07-January-2006 at 04:24 |
Audi has IMO got the best saloon, comp exec car out there in the A6 and A4 respectively....so if the argument is Audi vs BMW now, then my vote goes to Audi.
My S4 had everything and a bit more....why then defect to BMW you may ask? No reasons, actually one. Got rid of the other half...so 2 door happy
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335d evolve 354bhp/742nm....M3 SEE YA!!
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
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Posted: 06-January-2006 at 14:59 |
My comments on Audi servicing are made on the basis of hundreds of posts I see regularly from other owners (TSN). Their major gripe is VAG Customer Care.
In respect of what I said about servicing costs, well I can give a very relevant example:
My wifes 54 plate 320d SE - First Oil Service - £174.
My 54 plate A4 Avant TDi 130 S - First Oil Service - £278.
Most people complain about the cost of oil at £11 per litre too.
Of course this is all really a matter for personal experience, and different people will report different things. It doesn't help when the head of the VAG group comes out and says he doesn't know why everybody wants a VW or Audi instead of a Skoda "because all we do is put a different badge on, use a few different materials, and hike the price up by a much bigger margin".
Gee, that was a clever thing to say!!!!
Edited by Coasting
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
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Posted: 06-January-2006 at 13:31 |
I had a '91 Audi 80 2.0 which I really liked. I followed it with an E34 520 which was a real step up.
Next was a '98 A6 2.4 auto. In the showroom with build quality
& on the toys count it was great. Driving it was another matter. It
was crap. Poor ride, sloppy handling, it just couldn't cut it.
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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