M52 Water pump pulley bolts |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 16-January-2006 at 03:40 |
Well..... Dragged myself out of bed at 9 am, went out to the car just after 9 am to commence battle with the viscous fan coupling nut. Armed with my new Draper tool, (working from the engine compartment, car on its wheels with me facing the fan) I got it located on two water pump pulley bolts at the 3 o'clock position and put the viscous coupling spanner on the nut from the 9 o'clock position and with a big heave with both arms upwards, I shot backwards away from the car..... Thinking I had just had one of the tools slipped off I went back for another look at to my surprise I had loosened the nut. It just came of with a heave, no hammers or anything! I was back in the house for a cup of tea by 10 past 9! I had done it in less than 5 minutes, what me and the old boy had tried to do in 1.5 hours a week ago. Fan came off, fan cowling came off. Had to de-ice the car so ran the engine before driving her up on the ramps and water was also coming out the stat O ring and dripping onto the crank angle sensor. Not good. Drained the radiator with the heater fan on to try and pump out as much old coolant from the heater matrix. Removed the water pump by jacking it out from the block with 2 M6 bolts as per Haynes Comic Book followed by about 3.5 litres of coolant from the top of the block and head! Thermostat housing came out and I saw that the seal had well and truly failed, no wonder I was loosing water! I had to prise the thermostat out. The stat was rather worryingly coated in wax. The thing must have started to leak out its wax which would explain why I thought I had a bit of a lazy stat, i.e. opening too early and not getting enough heat into the heater. I put a smear of petroleum jelly on the rubber seals of the water pump, thermostat housing seal and the stat O ring before re-assembly. I then noticed how easy the radiator would come out so that was removed from the car and back flushed with a garden hose, bit of sludge came out but I was more concerned with the build up of leaves and muck in the radiator fins so I brushed that clean under running water. All went back together with no problems. I filled the system with the heater on to try and avoid air locks. I filled it thru the bleed screw on the stat housing rather than the expansion tank cap. I used 50-50 mix antifreeze, Mobil 1 stuff that was recently buy 2 and get 1 free from Halfrauds. Meets all the right numbers and standards that BMW say in the cars handbook. All back together and ready to start her up. Turned key and nothing.... I had sodding well drained the battery with having the heater on to power the auxiliary pump in an effort to avoid air locks. After all that I couldn't start it! D'oh. Jump start later and no leaks anywhere, no air could be bled out the bleed screws and the heater is now seriously hot when set at 32 deg! Nice and warm on the way to work this morning. Heater is now hot enough for me at 24 deg instead of the more recent 28 deg! Problem solved. I am happy (and warm) now. Just the front brakes to do and get a new battery! Thanks for all your tips and suggestions guys. Andrew |
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Dave E
Senior Member II Joined: 27-November-2002 Location: Worcestershire Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: 14-January-2006 at 15:50 |
No luck with Robert Stern - I will take my e-mail in with me on my next visit to find out why.
Anyway, problem solved. I borrowed a TIS CD; it fully explained the procedure on the "snap on" hose connectors - quite clever really. The CD also explained the impeller pump or as they called it the 'Auxiliary Water Pump'. When refilling the system the instruction is to turn on the iginition to cause it to operate (including setting heater controls and blower on low of course). I don't like the design of the thermostat with housing unit. It has to be purchsed as a complete unit because the thermostat is set into the housing with two flimsy plastic retainers. My thermostat hadn't failed, these plastic retainers had broken off and unseated the thermostat. Dave E 1999 520i SE A Edited by Dave E |
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Dave E
Senior Member II Joined: 27-November-2002 Location: Worcestershire Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: 13-January-2006 at 14:19 |
Hi Andrew. Are you going to carry out the work from beneath the car? I tried both but found it easier to work from above with the tools in a "V" formation, ie the pulley holding tool positioned at 11.0 clock and the spanner at 2.o clock. The spanner sticks up about 1inch above the shroud but sufficient to receive the blows of the hammer with the right hand whilst gripping the holding tool in the left hand ready to withstand the force of backlash of the blows from the hammer. The pulley restraint tool has a loose hinged part that depends on natural gravity to let it drop around the nut of the pulley. Trying to do it from beneath prevented this. It is impossible to put your hand up in the space to position it by hand.
Anyway best of luck. I will be working on the hose connectors tomorrow. I am awaiting advice from Robert Stern who have been servicing my cars for about 7 years so a liitle bit of free advice should not come amiss - hopefully. Dave E 1999 520i SE A |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:11 |
Thanks Dave. I'll try out my tool and let you know how I get on. I'm thinking trolley jack and a piece of timber to apply hydraulic pressure so it a constant force on the spanner handle. Sounds complicated but I have a picture of how I'm going to do it my head! Your car, being a year newer may make all the difference between a seized nut and one that will come off more easily! Andrew PS the weather looked good and the fiancé even said she would come out 'to hold something' if required! |
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Dave E
Senior Member II Joined: 27-November-2002 Location: Worcestershire Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: 13-January-2006 at 09:49 |
The Draper Viscous Fan Holding Tool together with the Draper 32mm Fan Hub wrench worked a treat. I sprayed some release fluid down a tube to reach the nut for starters but I still had to belt the end of the wrench with a 4lb lump hammer three times. As soon as it gave way the nut came off easily. My biggest worry (and still is) was disconnecting the so called "quick release" hose connectors. The main hose was easy enough, it was the two sets of smaller hoses that connect into, and out of, what seems to be an impeller pump at the bottom of the fan shroud. I have left the fan shroud sticking halfway out of the engine bay for today until I can fathom a way of pulling off these seized hoses without having to cut them loose.
The engine is a M52TV with more projections interfering with access than I have seen on any engine I have worked on. Dave E 1999 520iSE (E39) |
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bmwcrazy
Really Senior Member II 1995 M5,1995 318ISE,1997 325 Joined: 24-October-2005 Location: (glasgow the wee apple) big dazz Status: Offline Points: 661 |
Posted: 13-January-2006 at 09:13 |
good luck hope the rain stays off for u
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 13-January-2006 at 08:37 |
Psyching myself up for tomorrows assault on the viscous fan nut! Wish me luck! Andrew Edited by Andrew Rolland |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 12-January-2006 at 03:09 |
Thanks for that Bill. I did wonder about wafting a heat source over it. I would be tempted to do this if I was replacing the viscous coupling so if I damaged it, there wouldn't be a problem. However Mister Postman delivered this yesterday so I may be able to try it before the next assault on the nut this Saturday! Andrew Edited by Andrew Rolland |
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Bill-
Really Senior Member I Joined: 06-July-2005 Location: 5 miles from Brands Hatch Status: Offline Points: 434 |
Posted: 11-January-2006 at 13:25 |
How about heating the nut up briefly with a butane blowtorch or similar, just to allow the nut to swell a little. If your careful, kind of wave the flame about quite a bit it should be ok (not setting fire to your beloved car I mean) |
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Hayabusa
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 11-January-2006 at 03:16 |
Doubt it. The previous owner was religious in getting everything done at BMW, even tyres. I have all the receipts for everything and they are all BMW and none of them are for work which would have required removal of the fan. I would like to assume that if BMW had a shot at removing it they would have done it correctly. Emm maybe not going by my experience of my Local Main $tealer! I think with nearly 8 years of 6 cylinder heat the nut has welded itself to the pulley spindle. It will of course not been greased when it was assembled by BMW. Had the nut been greased then I bet there would not be this problem. Any nut or bolt I remove from any car gets greased before it gets put back. Andrew Edited by Andrew Rolland |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 11-January-2006 at 03:12 |
I have now bought this tool to use next Saturday morning. Is this what you were referring to Nick? I just need to wait and see when Mister Postman delivers it! If this one fails I think I might have to end up buying this tool which you can get from good old ECP even cheaper than on here. Andrew PS if the second one fails I think I mights have to end up buying another E39 at this rate! |
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II Original and STILL best Joined: 26-March-2004 Location: East Sussex/Kent border Status: Offline Points: 2098 |
Posted: 09-January-2006 at 12:18 |
easily done though chas, especially working from below.... |
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Chas C
Really Senior Member II Nothing new under the sun Joined: 15-December-2004 Location: Aberdeenshire Status: Offline Points: 1620 |
Posted: 09-January-2006 at 12:16 |
Makes you wonder if someone previously tried to remove it assuming it was a normal thread...
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II Original and STILL best Joined: 26-March-2004 Location: East Sussex/Kent border Status: Offline Points: 2098 |
Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:44 |
try some 'plus-gas' disassembly spray, works on everything... |
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Nick
Bavarian-Board Contributor BMWCC Area Organiser Yorks & Humber Joined: 21-October-2002 Location: God’s own county... Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1319 |
Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:29 |
I agree these are nasty when they are tight.. you end up thinking am I whacking away with the lump hammer in the wrong direction.. so you reverse what you are doing and end up tightening the thing even more.
You can buy the correct tool that locks on to the bolts which is what I shall do if it ever needs doing again. Nick |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 08-January-2006 at 20:56 |
You can't get to the water pump to block bolts as these are hidden behind the water pump pulley. You can't remove the water pump pulley without first removing the viscous fan coupling I'm afraid. In other words Have a look at your 1989 525i E34 and you will see what I mean. It will be of similar construction I would think to my M52 lump on my E39. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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gilescooperuk
Groupie Joined: 29-December-2005 Location: Peterborough Status: Offline Points: 56 |
Posted: 08-January-2006 at 18:04 |
I don't have one of these cars but....
why not undo the pump bolts and remove the pump and the fan at the same time, then with the now scrap pump on the bench separate it by clamping the impeller in a vice so it can't twist. Just seems that if you are taking the pump off why fuss with trying to remove the fan in the engine bay. Giles |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 08-January-2006 at 16:02 |
Thanks guys, I was hitting it in the correct direction, Left hand thread and all that, me and the old boy, striking the end of the viscous spanner with a 2lbs hammer and nowt. Stuck fast. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II Original and STILL best Joined: 26-March-2004 Location: East Sussex/Kent border Status: Offline Points: 2098 |
Posted: 08-January-2006 at 14:18 |
andrew, I have done 8 of these waterpumps and only had one difficult one - I guess you are unlucky! the sink spanner is gound down to about 4 mm thick, which allows me to get a big flathead screwdriver on the pulley bolts. Believe me, use the biggest hammer you have got! If its really tricky, get an assistant if you can, and one that has hand insurance! pity you are right up the other end of the UK - email me if you need more help.... |
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gtmoore
Advanced Newbie Joined: 08-June-2005 Location: Croydon, Surrey Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: 08-January-2006 at 12:12 |
I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with this. I've only ever
changed them using this method and I've done a few. It does need quite
a belt though and a heavy hammer is best.
It's a stupid question cos I think on earlier postings you've said you were aware of it being a reverse thread but you're definitely hitting it the right way? (clockwise when facing the engine) Perhaps it's just a tight one and you do need to make up a tool to stop the pump pulley turning - it's never a nice feeling using a hammer on a piece of precision engineering! I think I'll probably do that in future if the 'whack it hard' method isn't 100% successful as I thought it was before this |
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Gavin
Current: E39 525iSE Auto 2001 Previous: E34 530iV8 Auto 1994 E34 520iSE Auto 1994 E34 520iSE Manual 1990 |
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