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spokey 
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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 Posted: 22-January-2006 at 06:50 |
 livvy wrote:
If you want to encourage compliance at the times
no marked car is visible (& because of limited coverage this is
going to be the vast majority of the time) it will have to be by the
possibility that an unmarked car is around and will spot any rule
breaking.
After all the idea is to encourage compliance all of the time, not just when a marked Police car is around.
Of course if you don't braek the law, marked car OR unmarked car is of no consequence or concern to you.
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Of course, if you want to live in a country where you fear the police and you want to feel threatened by them, you can always move to Britain.
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Ciao,
Spokey
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 22-January-2006 at 06:01 |
whitey wrote:
TRACKPIG wrote:
a marked car stops the speeding in the first place. an unmaked car rakes the cash in.
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My initial point exactly. |
If you agree that marked Police cars can influence behaviour, equally not having a marked car present can mean compliance with rules is less likely. How does a marked car encourage compliance ? It's because people are worried about being caught. If you want to encourage compliance at the times no marked car is visible (& because of limited coverage this is going to be the vast majority of the time) it will have to be by the possibility that an unmarked car is around and will spot any rule breaking. After all the idea is to encourage compliance all of the time, not just when a marked Police car is around. Of course if you don't braek the law, marked car OR unmarked car is of no consequence or concern to you.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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whitey
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 15-May-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 450
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Posted: 22-January-2006 at 05:45 |
TRACKPIG wrote:
a marked car stops the speeding in the first place. an unmaked car rakes the cash in.
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My initial point exactly.
Edited by whitey
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2000 e39 523i with full factory sport kit.
1989 e30 325i Convertible
1999 Golf GTI 1.8T
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 19:39 |
livvy wrote:
Yes they will help, as will unmarked cars for the reasons I outlined earlier.
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livvy wrote:
You need the invisible threat to make people moderate their driving because they fear that an unmarked car could be amongst them.
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That's what the police want, is it? To threaten us and to inspire fear?
Yes, I can see how that would be a good thing.
Edited by spokey
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Ciao,
Spokey
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 19:25 |
dutch wrote:
Impairment - Fatigue is one of them.
It does not figure in the top ten causation factors in fatal collisions
how is this worked out if the driver is killed when he fell asleep at the wheel.
back to the thread. one third down to speed !
surely marked police cars would deter a majority of the 2 thirds you site that are not speed related? |
Yes they will help, as will unmarked cars for the reasons I outlined earlier. Impairment - fatigue doesn't figure in the top ten of non fatal collisions either.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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dutch
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 17-December-2005
Location: lakeside Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 438
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 19:20 |
Impairment - Fatigue is one of them.
It does not figure in the top ten causation factors in fatal collisions
how is this worked out if the driver is killed when he fell asleep at the wheel.
back to the thread. one third down to speed !
surely marked police cars would deter a majority of the 2 thirds you site that are not speed related?
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e39,1200 bandit
cooper S, Z3 topazbleu
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 18:58 |
Rhys wrote:
Where would tiredness come? There are always warning of taking breaks etc. There have been cases where I've had to pull off the road to have a break (I always try to plan these in advance when traveling any distance and have a rest every hour or so even if I'm not). |
There are 54 seperate listed causation factors. Impairment - Fatigue is one of them. It does not figure in the top ten causation factors in fatal collisions.
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 18:42 |
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Where would tiredness come? There are always warning of taking breaks etc. There have been cases where I've had to pull off the road to have a break (I always try to plan these in advance when traveling any distance and have a rest every hour or so even if I'm not).
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate
J Reg Saab 900i 16v
'63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe
R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 18:36 |
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Interesting, thanks.
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate
J Reg Saab 900i 16v
'63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe
R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 18:23 |
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Between 1999-2002
In fatal collisions the following are the top ten main contributory factors.
Excessive speed 28%
Behaviour careless/thoughtless/reckless 21%
Inattention 18%
Lack of judgement of own path 17%
Failed to judge other persons path or speed 16%
Looked but did not see 14%
Impairment - Alcohol 14%
Failed to look 10%
Behaviour - In a hurry 7%
Aggressive driving 6%
The 5 main precipitating factors in excessive speed accidents
Loss of control resulted in 49%
Failed to avoid vehicle or object in the road in 23%
Failed to give way in 6%
Poor turn or manoeuvre in 5%
Sudden braking in 4%
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 18:09 |
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Collisions can have more then one factor in their cause.
Excessive speed is the most frequently recorded factor in fatal collisions.
Also about 25% of fatalities result from single vehicle accidents. No other vehicles or pedestrian involvement at all. Just one vehicle going off road or hitting street furnitures for example.
Rhys I do have some details, I'll dig them out.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 17:57 |
Livvy, do you have a list of reasons for fatalities on the roads - speed is one third, what are the others?
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate
J Reg Saab 900i 16v
'63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe
R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 17:51 |
dutch wrote:
livvy wrote:
The number of fatal accidents on our roads are a fact.
Every fatal accident is recorded & investigated after all. |
How many are attributed to speed?
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The reports say speed is a factor in about one third.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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dutch
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 17-December-2005
Location: lakeside Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 438
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 17:39 |
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[QUOTE=livvy]
The number of fatal accidents on our roads are a fact.
Every fatal accident is recorded & investigated after all.
How many are attributed to speed?
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e39,1200 bandit
cooper S, Z3 topazbleu
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Fey!
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Funs over, Scotty; beam down my clothes!
Joined: 28-February-2005
Location: Galway
Status: Offline
Points: 4161
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 14:17 |
Nigel - I'm not a statistician, nor am I, or have I ever been, involved in the emergency services; I'm one of the lucky ones who rarely has to see the carnage. The driving I witness day to day is on Irish roads, with Irish drivers. The roads are nothing short of brutal in a lot of cases, and the driving is as described earlier in this post.
Spokey - I only refered to that as you mentioned your displeasure at doing 30mph on the Motorway. Seeing as this thread started of as traffic police bashing, I thought that it was appropriate. Obviously I was wrong.
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 13:08 |
Fey! wrote:
Spokey - I'm not a massive fan of police procedures
and response times, but I think you're being very unreasonable.
The 30mph average on the motorway is more likely the fault of
shortsighted infrastructure planning and bad motorists than the police,
imho. |
This is entirely off-topic and doesn't match what I said, I do not hold the police responsible for my journey times.
There are inconsistencies in the arguments put forward by the only
police officer in this conversation (that I know of, anyway!) On the
one hand, we are told that reducing deaths (improved road safety) is a
major objective, on the other, we are told it is better to drive
relatively unsafely than to break the speed limit.
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Ciao,
Spokey
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 12:21 |
dutch wrote:
1 death is 1 to many if the goverment wanted to reduce this then they should make the ADT the only test for new drivers. on a foot note it may seem callous question but how are the stats worked out for the 3500 you quote? |
The number of fatal accidents on our roads are a fact. Every fatal accident is recorded & investigated after all. Last year there were 3,221 road deaths, the lowest since records began in 1926. There were the lowest number of injury accidents recorded for 47 years as well.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 12:18 |
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And with all that Fey, would you believe the Britsh have the safest roads ?
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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Fey!
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Funs over, Scotty; beam down my clothes!
Joined: 28-February-2005
Location: Galway
Status: Offline
Points: 4161
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 11:47 |
Nigel/Livvy - in my experience of the police, not too many of them are crooked (maybe I'm either naive or lucky).
Spokey - I'm not a massive fan of police procedures and response times, but I think you're being very unreasonable. The 30mph average on the motorway is more likely the fault of shortsighted infrastructure planning and bad motorists than the police, imho.
Dutch - I agree with the ADT test as the only test. My brother in law is German, and they have to undergo a set number of instruction hours on private ground before they're let loose on public roads. In Switzerland, afaik, if you fail your test 3 times, you have to get a psychiatric evaluation to say whether or not you should be let on the road
Do any of you ever watch Britains Worst Driver? All the people on that had passed their tests, but shouldn't be let on the roads!
As for the use of the WRX (and the unmarked Volvo T6 estates) - aren't these cars primarily used for fast response/support units (I can't remember the proper term for these units) which also police really bad driving rather than being used as static speed traps? From what I gather, they also deal a lot with drugs culture.
Maybe I'm off the reservation with that.
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dutch
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 17-December-2005
Location: lakeside Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 438
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Posted: 21-January-2006 at 11:25 |
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1 death is 1 to many if the goverment wanted to reduce this then they should make the ADT the only test for new drivers. on a foot note it may seem callous question but how are the stats worked out for the 3500 you quote?
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e39,1200 bandit
cooper S, Z3 topazbleu
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WARNING! Unmarked Subaru on M23
