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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 635CSI Highline Values
    Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:45

Hi, can anyone give a general guide to realistic values for the 635. I'm particularly interested in the highline. Sorry if this is done to death, I've not seen anything on here.

Basically I bought one for a particular price and as you would expect it needs certain things done. So what I am trying to work out is if I spend x sorting it out will I cover my outlay if I need to sell it.

Price points could work downwards from the best, e.g.

  • Perfect, Concourse example, no work required.
  • Mint with minor blemishes/signs of age and NO RUST
  • Minor rust (treatable) but mechanically/electrically sound
  • Minor rust, a few mechanical/electrical issues but runs fine.
  • Rust (new panels required) mech/elec issues but runs.
  • Resonable condition (rust) but with issues that prevent running at this time.
  • Restoration job
  • Scrap
  • Chicken Coup

Basically my car falls into the minor rust/few elec/mech issues - runs fine. It is very clean and tidy, especially inside (lotus white) and has had quite a bit spent on bushes/mounts, etc. I drive it everyday but there are outstanding jobs that need done.

Is it realistic to judge prices in this way? I imagine particularly that no rust must have a distinct price point.

Thoughts?

Thanks

What fuel crisis?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:49
A UK car with no rust is highly unlikely IMHO! In general I mean!!
My 635's.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:00
A very tidy 635 on 'The Old Colonel' site for 5K

http://www.oldcolonelcars.co.uk./

http://www.bmwcarshowroom.com/

http://www.the80semporium.co.uk/home/

So work out repair costs and probably add 50% and see what your car stands you in at.

Edited by nero
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:21

re: Rust in the UK. Yes I agree, but what about a car with all rust sorted?

Shem

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 13:54

I would say that unless you do the work yourself you are extremely unlikely to recoup the costs of restoration work when it comes time to sell. This just isn't how the World works..... The only big exceptions to this happen when the market for the car changes over time, but remember most cars go down, not up....

At the moment a vaguely working 635 Highline is worth precisely what anyone will pay for it; on this forum we've seen them change hands for 750 quid with not much work required, and clean ones go for ten times as much.

cheers

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 14:19
Top of the market would probably be Munich Legends who would ask 11 - 12k for a really mint Highline with around 60 - 70k miles. While their prices offend some people they have no problem selling their stock.

Further down the price range we have see private example with around 100k miles change hands for around 9k

Something with higher miles and/or lower condition would fetch 5 - 7k but this is a dangerous ground. There are many shiny turds around at this price range.

Further down the price range you're looking at 3-5k for rougher and/or higher mileage cars. I'd go for a high mileage but well cared for car over a lower mileage rough one any day eg. Dave's 200k miler. At this price you could get a bargain or a money pit but the the odds are starting to stack up against you.

There's no such thing as a cheap Six!
AndyS
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 23:51

-well, there is a 69000miles highline in Cirrusblau, ex-munich legends car, in the latest BMWCC mag.

5K is a good price for this car, but too much IMHO for another in the same issue with twice the mileage.

6ers are rare cars and will probably become collector's items, but it hasn't quite happened yet...

cheers

 

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 03:55

I agree, and until the 6 does become a real classic* we need to keep thowing time and money into our cars in order to keep them up to our own standards - not to make a profit - as there are going to be far easier ways of making money.

* So what is a classic? I'd say anything 'of an age' which could be perhaps as young as 10 years, that is in generally excellent condition - and here's the important part - is currently valued at MORE than its original cost. Our cars were very expensive when new, so this is really going to take a while for my 'old car' to become a 'classic BMW'...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 05:18

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in it for the money!

The Cirrus blue car looks quite nice and if 5K is realistic then this is good. Looking at the pictures and spec I think I could bring my car to this level for the difference in what I paid, even without me doing all the work.

Classic for me means:

  • A car that has passed out of mainsteam circulation and starts to become attractive again in its own right
  • A car that that doesn't look like you only drive it because you cannot afford something newer
  • Has stopped depreciating and is valued mainly on condition rather than age/mileage
  • A car that makes others feel good when they see one

I think that if a car is valued more than its original cost then yes it is certainly a classic but we are too late to own one!

As a matter of interest, say you spend 12K on a 'Munich Legends' car, will it be perfect? or is there no such thing unless you buy a museum peice for 25K (which will have a host of other problems related to lack of use)?

I really like the 6, it looks fantastic inside and out and I think its image in verging on supercool assuming its in original spec. I'd love to run one day in and out with the reliability of my 323 Sport Touring (which my wife has nicked) but is this realistic? Or will it be a never ending list of issues regardless of how much you spend on them?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 12:26

Its an interesting point: I use my 6 every day, and its 25 years old now, and whilst there IS a "never ending list of issues" they are mostly easily dealt with, at not massive cost. Its as reliable and as quick, and a whole more better than the V6 Vectra SRI it replaced.

I certainly get a lot more out of my car than I would a new mondeo for example, and in all it costs less when you take depreciation into account. But, part of my worry is that its not impossible that something fairly routine can make these cars uneconomical to repair, especially where rust is concearned, but that just comes with the teritory.

If I wanted an absolutely perfect 6, then a museum quality car or total rebuild is about 20k - but how long will it stay perfect? I'm personally better off with a car thats "pretty good" IMHO, that cost very little, but needs fair bit spending. 

And so says Jimbob.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 13:31

yes I agree, if you get to the point where you worry about using it normally its not a 'car' any more, its something else. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

I like driving mine....

cheers

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 14:21
In Autotrader currently is a 635CSI (its shown as an M635 but this is a mistake) 1989 76000miles, 7500
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 18:57

Originally posted by AndyS AndyS wrote:

....Something with higher miles and/or lower condition would fetch 5 - 7k but this is a dangerous ground. There are many shiny turds around at this price range.....

Oh thanks a lot.....



Edited by Horsetan

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 20:12

you dont need many jobs to spend a couple of grand! So due to the high maintenance and parts costs, there is very little in the way of guide prices, which is what I gather this post has uncovered...

What you think your car is worth, and what someone will pay for it are completey different (usually)... It's a buyers market more than ever.

I think that the economic situation with oil (i.e its bloody expensive now) has stifled the true classic status of the 6.

Although, it's as much a classic as any 1980's sports car in my oppinion. (I know it was originally made in the '70s).


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2006 at 20:22
You're supposed to be asleep, Ben. It's 1.22am!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2006 at 07:28
Prices for 6-series have been rising.

Remember the 5th Gear article (2002/2003?) when Quentin Willson urged us to "buy a proper Six for 3 - 3500" ?

Well the car he was looking at would be at least double that now if not more.

The trouble is, buyers look at cars for sale & see a price range from 2k to 10k & say what's the difference? Surely the cheaper can can be as good as the more expensive one with a little attention. We all know from the tales on the forum how expensive that "little" attention can be. But because that cheap car can still look nice & shiny, people are tempted to buy cheap as they think they're getting a bargain.

With the cost of parts & labour being what they are it doesn't make financial sense to try & save a poor Six. It's cheaper & less hassle to buy a better car in the first place. The problem lies with the mid priced cars. We all agree that we need to keep on top of our cars to avoid deterioration but what if those costs start to outway the possible resale value of the car?

I think the middle ground cars will start to polarise with the cared for examples seeing values rise while the neglected cars will drop down to join the rougher cars. At some point they'll be worth more as spares than a whole car.

With the youngest cars now 16 years old the next 5 years could see a Darwinian evolution - the survival of the fittest & a culling of the sick & weak.  I believe a recent post claimed the DVLC had only 1000 6-series still registered!

The future of the UK 6-series is in your hansd!!! 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2006 at 05:10

On the other hand, what would happen if Gordon Brown became primeminister? Horsepower tax? Displacement tax? Uneconomical car tax levies? The list is endless.

These possibilities would certainly do us no favours.

I really hope that Andy is right, as this is what should happen. A1 class cars will always fetch good money, and the ones at the bottom will be broken up to to save better cars, thats supply and demand economics.

I am pretty sure that every single six on the road, when sold, will at best cover the last 5 years or so restoration/ repairs, but not a lot more. So from that point of view resale values are still poor. However the amount of enjoyment our cars gives us is worth it!

Personally, I dont care about the resale value of my car, as I am unlikely to ever sell it. I can let you all know that my 1985 635 auto was boughy in 1993 by my father for 4500, and I would suppose its worth about that now, or maybe even less. The values have been at rock-bottom for about 10 years now, and I think that some noticable rises for the deecent examples are just ablut visible now.

On a slightly different note - the Jag XJS is worth nothing (unless A1), and the Merc SEC's are in a similar position to the 6's.

I oppolagise for bringing politics in at the beginning.

-Ben

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2006 at 10:32

In most cases its rarity and desirability that dictates the value of a classic car not how much someone has spent on them. I 've heard many Ferrari 400i owners have learnt this the hard way

Therefore if there is only 1000 sixes registered then thats good news for value. That leaves desirabilty. One could presume that anyone reading this forumn strongly believes that a 6 is desirable and will become more desirable when people realise how great they are .

But here lies the problem with all potential classics, the people entrusted to save the 6 are those who may be least realistic in their expectations of their value. We have all heard the horror stories of the man who spent 30K restoring something milding interesting to find out that absolute top dollar from a equally nutty, if well healed, collector was half that.

I don't want to sound mercinary or that I'm in it for the money or anything, I'm not but I do have a wife and family to pay for as well. I get away with have some 'unsual' cars on the basis that I don't lose too much money in the process (the wife is ever watchful).

For me part of the fun is buying and running something 'interesting' for 'dull and predictable' money. If its a unreliable money pit that will not recoup any money spent then you may as well buy a new car and at least have the reliability.

I also agree with the other factors mentioned already, re: fuel, tax and the green issue. This IS effecting desirability of a number of these types of cars. I know LPG has already been covered but I personally feel it would increase value.

It looks like the answer to the original question is annoying vague and simple, they are worth what someone is prepared to pay.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2006 at 12:10
There's much talk about 10 grand 635CSi's - but
what would you get for them in a 5 day Ebay auction?
Not ten grand that's for sure. As ever, an old car is
worth what someone will pay for it and how badly
they want one. I remember the V12 XJS as being a
more impressive bit of kit when new (I had a couple)
and the object of lust back then was the 560SEC
Merc.
Not too long ago (2003) somebody I know well
bought a Diamond black 1988 Highline (manual) off
Ebay. 123'000 miles, lots of history, perfect body
(wings had been replaced in 1999) and not a bad
set of Metrics either. The car was a nice runner but
had been stood for nearly 3 years in the guy's garage
and by that I mean the one of the side of his house
as opposed to a damp lock up.

With the tyres inflated and the levels checked it was
driven home on trade plates to my house and left for
a couple of days - no problems. It had a pretty good
history having been serviced by North Oxford Garage
until 1997 and there were plenty of large invoices.

Price paid 680, and I was there when he collected
it. In the end I think it needed a good valet and
service plus a set of brake hoses. It was such a
lovely straight thing as well - just shows what you
can buy if you don't feel inclined to spend
megadollars on a 15-16 year old BMW but matey
was very lucky because it's a 4000 car all day long
(or 8000 from ML!). This one stood him at 1100 all
done. I've had a few 6 Series over the years - proper
ones, not rubbish - and I know full well the difference
between something that's nice and proper and tarted
up scrap. The last one I had was a white 1984 B
plate 635CSi Automatic who first owner was Tom
Jones. Absolutely mint and level, no problems,
78'000 miles and working air con - 2200 from
Blackbushe classic car auction about 3-4 years ago.
I doubt it's worth any more now than the 3500 I sold
it for. The Munchin' LegEnds 10'000 syndrome is
just like the 100'000 mile E30 M3 timing chain -
spread it about a bit and it becomes folklore.

As for SEC's, I saw a very tidy black one (500SEC) on
the F plate in Gloucester yesterday for 1100.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2006 at 13:13
Originally posted by Drew540i Drew540i wrote:

The Munchin' LegEnds 10'000 syndrome is
just like the 100'000 mile E30 M3 timing chain -
spread it about a bit and it becomes folklore.

As for SEC's, I saw a very tidy black one (500SEC) on
the F plate in Gloucester yesterday for 1100.


The other side of the coin is the 1100 635 minter - equally folklore. Every buyer of such so-called bargains has become a major poster on these forums searching for help & bemoaning the immovable moneypit they've just saddled themselves with.

True, a 10k car from ML wouldn't sell for that on eBay but then people who buy 10k 635's from ML are buying them to keep for a while, not off load as soon as some expensive repair rears it's head.

As for the 500 SEC - the last issue of Mercede Enthusiast had a buying guide on them & stated that prices had polarised into the cheap rough'n'ready cars & the minters at up to 15k. Of which a couple were advertised at.

If you're going to quote prices at one end of the scale at least accept that the other end of the scale exists & is just as valid.

You may be lucky enough to find these "mint" cars for the price of an EasyJet flight but most of us aren't. Maybe you're just in the right place, maybe you're just being "economical" with the facts. Whatever, it's possible to buy a Six for buttons & it's possible to pay thousands so just because you can get X amount of car for Y doesn't mean that dictates the market price.

In my experience, you don't always get what you pay for but equally, you never get more than you pay for.
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