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Mike Fishwick 
Groupie 
Joined: 26-October-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 63 |
 Topic: British Justice?Posted: 22-February-2006 at 03:51 |
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Just heard of the car thief, who was without a licence, obviously had no insurance, and while driving the stolen car at 48 mph in a 30 mph zone managed to kill a small girl.
He kept going, ditched the car, and hid for a while before surrendering the the police. When he came to court in Burnely, Lancs, (magistrate's court - that means a mason!) he was charged with careless driving, and given 12 weeks in jail - yes, twelve weeks. The Magistrate complimented him for surrendering to the police, and pleading for guilty, factors which were used to justify the short sentence. Causing death by dangerous driving - the correct charge - can carry up to 14 years in jail - more like a correct sentance. Of course, the offender was of asian origin, so perhaps the Burnley Magistrate had been persuaded not to be seen to victimise an islamic person - or maybe he was just an idiot. Of course, maybe he was in the same lodge as the Magistrate. One thing is clear - the day of the honest hit man is over in the UK - machine guns are for small-time drug dealers intent on impressing their friends, whereas real murderers use cars. If caught, there will be plenty of extenuating circumstances to 'justify' a short sentance, and lots of support for him when released. |
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dirtybeemer
Really Senior Member II 
1996 P E39 523i se Joined: 29-January-2006 Status: Offline Points: 563 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 04:28 |
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Jesus goes to show what this country is coming to when this person can take a life like that and basically get a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again, where is the deterrant in that? who's to say he aint going to get out in twelve weeks time and do the same thing again, this really makes my blood boil and proves a couple of points i made in a previous post, about the justice system and life you dont know what can happen to you, but i aint going into that he should have been locked up and the key thrown away regardless of race religion etc. I went to my local club yesterday, and old lady called qwen came in know she lives on her own and relied a lot on her son, who was a manager of a casino in leeds and a few weeks ago he was stabbed to death for no reason in leeds, this was this old ladies only child and she was in a right state, apparently the Police have the lad who did it in prison on remand he is 27 year's old, and is due in court in june for his trial lets see if he gets slapped wrist's and told not to do it again. because the court dont take into account that the families of the innocent person have to face that they will never ever see that person again, and giving the guilty twelve weeks is just rubbing salt into there deep open wounds my heart goes out to them. Edited by dirtybeemer |
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Mike Fishwick
Groupie
Joined: 26-October-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 63 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 04:36 |
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This type of problem has been going on for too long. It's a pity that this kind of thing does not get all the newspapers worked up to mount a campaign which will influence our government, as they did in the case of the handgun legislation.
A change in the law could make driving a car which had been taken without the owner's consent a crime punishable at the same level as dangerous driving. In a case such as this, it would then automatically be death by dangerous driving. How anyone can feel anything but utter contempt for the British legal system is beyond me. |
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dirtybeemer
Really Senior Member II
1996 P E39 523i se Joined: 29-January-2006 Status: Offline Points: 563 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 04:52 |
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I dont feel contempt for the british legal system in fact i think it is a farce, they have may have passed law on hand guns but it dosent stop people from carring them and using them, the goverment pass these laws, but there is no one to enforce them. I agree with you mike i think it is high time the British legal system was reviewed and harsher punishments where handed out to these people who commit crime. |
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005 Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai Status: Offline Points: 1483 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 07:37 |
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What do you mean "of course...asian,". So in your eyes asians are getting away with murder? How many wee neds do you see in the streets causing disruption compared to asian lads. More importantly, what percentage of asian lads compared to non-blacks are banged up more frequently? fair dos, the boy did wrong and a heavier punishment should've been given...but lay off the "cos i'm black" rubbish. Someone I know did something terribly wrong.... Man charged over toddler's road death; [Final Edition] Evening Times. Glasgow (UK): Jun 14, 2005. pg. 2 People: McInnes, Melissa Section: News Text Word Count 160 Document URL: Abstract (Document Summary) A MAN has appeared in custody at Paisley Sheriff Court charged with causing the death of toddler Melissa McInnes by driving dangerously at the weekend. [Mohsin Raziq], who is also alleged to have been driving without a licence or insurance, in Renfrew Road, Paisley, on Sunday, was remanded in custody after his brief appearance in court. And he knows he did wrong and will pay the consequence for his actions...a life for a life. He's awaiting a trial date. Edited by m3tiko |
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 11:16 |
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The difficulty is that there is an offence of death by dangerous driving, but dangerous driving is very hard to prove. There is an offence of careless driving (which is comparatively easy to prove) but there is no offence of death by careless driving. Under the new road sfaety bill there will be new offences of death by careless driving death caused by a disqualified driver. death caused by unlicensed driver. These will hopefully bridge the gap in current legislation & provide a means to give more meaningful sentences where people take others lives through unlawful actions. |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 15:25 |
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Livvy I know you mean to help, and do what you can to justify the system, but today was a very black day for justice. On the same news bulletin that carried the driving story where an asian gets 12 weeks for killing a little girl, someone with a "white" sounding name gets remanded in custody awaiting sentance for cutting his girlfriends ponytail off. Is it me ? |
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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Nostrils
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 27-October-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 792 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 15:52 |
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I read the same story! Disgusting, although not totally surprised. This country has fast become PC Heaven. Anyone in any authority, be it the police, magistrates, teachers, and parents are too scared to give out suitable justice because of political correctness.
More and more people are serving their own justice when the police WONT do anything about localised crime, even with CCTV evidence, these no-marks get away with it! A relative has done it once and wont hesitate to do it again |
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Phil
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 16:01 |
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Nigel It is very easy to be critical of any sentencing where we don't know the full circumstances of each case, but instead just rely on the snippets that a partisan press decide to feed us for sensational headlines. In the driving case how much time did he spend on remand in the first place ? In the 2nd is there a history of violence & abuse ? Remember the 2nd was a deliberate act of violence, domestic mental abuse/cruelty has been held to be ABH before, whilst the driver in the fatal collision (whilst a scumbag no doubt) didn't intend to harm the girl, even if he was careless about such & acted as a despicable coward following the collision. I will agree with you that the law is woefully inadequate at present for deaths resulting from careless driving, but that is being addressed. You know what careless driving is like to prove & anybody invloved in a fatal collision when it is brought in, is going to find it very hard defending against that charge. As for the race of the accused remark, I find that a ridiculous allegation, given the relative ratios of prisoners from minority groups that currently inhabit our prisons. Edited by livvy |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 16:06 |
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I wish it was ridiculous Livvy, I really do, want an example ? I'll pm it if you prefer Edited by Nigel |
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor 
Joined: 27-August-2003 Location: Lost somewhere in time... Status: Offline Points: 6484 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 16:11 |
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I'm with you on this one Livvy. Don't turn this into a race thing. I can think of plenty of examples of this kind of thing where the defendant was white.
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 745 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 16:29 |
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Look at the stats Nigel. You are twice as likely to be remanded in custody before a court if you are black. You are about 6 times more likley to get stopped & searched etc etc. You can't say those are favourable odds if you happen to be from a minority background. Edited by livvy |
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone. |
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scarface
Really Senior Member I 
Joined: 16-June-2004 Location: Surrey, UK Status: Offline Points: 414 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 16:49 |
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I have to say that I'm with Livvy for once on this. But we don't know all the facts. Did the guy mount a pavement or did the girl run out in front of him? We never know the details, so we draw our own conclusions.
However, 12 weeks is a joke even for the theft and motoring offences without the manslaughter. I doubt he was on remand for years. It has to be said that going back to the age old speeding topic that if he had been travelling within the speed limit, he may well have still had no chance of avoiding her, but she would have had a greater chance of survival. Makes you think. |
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005 Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai Status: Offline Points: 1483 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 18:00 |
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Seems to me we have "secret handshake" boys on this forum...no names of course.
And on the topic of PC...respect is reciprocal. So what a certain british political party is doing by reprinting those islamic cartoons is politically correct?? Don't want to get carried away with this topic...just disgraceful attitudes IMO |
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Robmw
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 29-August-2005 Location: Epping Status: Offline Points: 311 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 18:12 |
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He ( the driver ) claims the little girl ran out into the road, regardless of this
He should not have been behind the wheel of the car as he was not licensed ( he had a provisional license) He was not insured The car was stolen He fled the scene of the accident ( Hit and Run ) It was his choice Regardless of race colour or gender whatever He then pleaded guilty to Careless Driving ! Whoever plea bargined this down to Careless driving is equally guilty as is the Judge for accepting the plea bargain As for the driver he also recieved a 5 yr driving ban. Having shown such contempt for the law I am sure he will ignore this ban as well. |
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Robert Born
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005 Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai Status: Offline Points: 1483 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 18:16 |
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You're probably right...and I totally agree he did wrong and sentencing was too light...read my earlier posts if you're having a go at me.
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Doive
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 18:27 |
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The guy deserves due and right punishment, regardless of what his race or religion is. I would sincerely hope that the judicial system in this country does not base decisions or sentences on the ethnic origins of the offenders - the idea that one group is given more lenient sentences than another makes me annoyed, and that goes for white, asian, african, whatever.
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk 
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005 Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai Status: Offline Points: 1483 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 18:31 |
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Well it seems that the general consensus in this post is in belief that this is the way our judicial system is operating.....
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bmwcrazy
Really Senior Member II
1995 M5,1995 318ISE,1997 325 Joined: 24-October-2005 Location: (glasgow the wee apple) big dazz Status: Offline Points: 661 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 19:02 |
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i:am with livvy on this too do the crime do the time no matter what u are glasgow is full of neds. its a hard one ,but saying its a black brown pink thing will not wash i work in a night club in glasgow at the weekend ,have so for ten years ,when i turn i white person away i get told i:am a w..k thats it but when i turn a african asian away i:am a racist , many off my work mates and family are mixed and from africa . we are all the same in the big mans eyes (god) but saying we cant call xmas ,xmas banning ba ba black sheep and all that guff when the goverment set the rules what do u expect . group hug come on !!!!!!!!!!!! dazz
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m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005 Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai Status: Offline Points: 1483 |
Posted: 22-February-2006 at 19:12 |
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Dazz...I know what Glasgow's like mate. I own a nightclub....all revellers think the management are out to get them
But my point pertains to this post.... is that some folk think that asians/blacks are let off too easy...are they?? Enough said...now we know who's for who !! |
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British Justice?
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Mike Fishwick wrote: