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Brucey
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 744
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Posted: 26-April-2006 at 17:28 |
Jimbob is right; my parts car ('81) has the one-piece manifold too; all motronic M30s have this type so far as I know and 6ers went motronic in 1980, with the original engine size. Ivan seems sure that the smaller engine came in may '82 but I have yet to see any evidence of this; there is little external difference between the E12 motronic lump and the E28 version that followed it.
cheers
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
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Posted: 26-April-2006 at 18:02 |
Brucey wrote:
....Ivan seems sure that the smaller engine came in may '82 but I have yet to see any evidence of this..... |
Here's some evidence. A contemporary road test report, dated "week ending 10th July 1982":
Any good?
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents!
Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
Status: Offline
Points: 632
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Posted: 26-April-2006 at 19:00 |
Jimbob wrote:
Don't mean to contradict, coz I
know you know your stuff, but my '81 635 with the
3453cc block has the '3.2/3.5' marked inlet
manifold.
Did I miss read your post? |
Not at all. My 635CSi - RUT377W - (the same colour
as yours) had the bunch of bananas inlet manifold
and Motronic. So did an X plate 732i I had a couple of
years ago
Early Motronic M30's such as the 732i have this
arrangement. It may be that BMW started using the
later 745i manifolds as standard from mid 1981
when the E28 came out. I've never seen an E28 with
the old manifold.
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
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Posted: 26-April-2006 at 19:06 |
Drew540i wrote:
The one piece manifold
with '3.2/3.5' is from the 745i Turbo and was first
used on a Euro M30 with the 3430 motor, same part.
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Yes, I see what you mean now. You're right, I'm
indeed wrong. I meant 3453cc.
BTW what was the cause of your starting problem
Jim?
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Drew21
Groupie
Joined: 14-October-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 51
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 03:51 |
good article Ivan, but it doesn't say when the various changes took place. It says that the new engine is smaller capacity and higher compression and has digitally controlled injection and ignition (motronic) but it doesn't say whether all of these changes were introduced at the same time or seperately.
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Jimbob
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-July-2005
Location: Live: West Sussex - Work: Islington
Status: Offline
Points: 190
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 04:02 |
Oh yes, the starting problem - NOT related to getting low on fuel at all in the end; distributor and rotor arms (1981 originals) had given up. All wonderful again now new replacements fitted.
Cheers for the advise though (and for asking)
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And so says Jimbob.
1981 635csi 81k miles. Will be fixed, but not by me.
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
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Points: 6381
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 04:59 |
Drew21 wrote:
good article Ivan, but it doesn't say when the various changes took place. .....it doesn't say whether all of these changes were introduced at the same time or seperately. |
2nd paragraph: "similarly updated 635 and 628CSi coupes...began to appear in ....showrooms last month....."
That means June 1982.
Edited by Horsetan
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Drew21
Groupie
Joined: 14-October-2005
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 05:33 |
ok, I missed that bit.....
d'oh
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005
Location: North London
Status: Offline
Points: 331
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 15:51 |
Whats that bit about shutting the fuel above 1200 RPM when you have your foot off the gas in that article?
When they say 'shuts the fuel supply', I take it it just means the throttle is as closed as much as possible.... which is what would normally happen? or am I wrong.
What is the difference in economy between the two cars (E12/E24 based 6) - I would say engines, but 5's 6's and 7's all have different weights, and thus fuel economies.
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's
1998 Z3 2.8i
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Brucey
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 744
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 16:38 |
Thanks Ivan, v interesting.
Also interesting re. motronic lumps with 'banana' manifolds, never seen one myself, live and learn etc....
motronic cars are meant to be more economic because of the improved over-run fuel cut-off and a lower idling speed. E28 base E24s are lighter in weight and many are taller geared too. Both these help fuel economy considerably. However the biggest change comes with the 4-speed auto vs the earlier 3 speed (although not strictly an E28 thing). E12 base cars with the auto box struggle to do better than 20mpg round town and 25mpg everywhere else...
cheers
Edited by Brucey
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Location: The Mansfield Massive
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 16:40 |
Easy - second generation Motronic and 3 generation
L Jetronic (called LE for economy) have an overrun
fuel cutoff which actually occurs above 1600 rpm on
some cars, mainly early LE Jetronic stuff like
628CSi's. It just means that when you back off the
throttle on the motoprway for example at 3000 rpm,
the throttle switch tells the ECU to cut the fuel. When
it gets down to either 1600 or 1200 rpm the coil
pulses tell the ECU to fire the fuel in again. It saves
fuel and works very well.
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005
Location: North London
Status: Offline
Points: 331
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Posted: 27-April-2006 at 19:21 |
come to think of it, that makes perfect sense so as far as the consumption dial behaviour is concerned; i.e touch the gas and the econometer goes east.
Another point in this department - if BMW designed what was a pretty clever piece of electronics for the early 80's, they also designed a fairly poor cruise control system, since the economy loss is huge when on cruise, as it seems to be pretty heavy on the gas to maintain speed. It is a shame that the cruise does not have a setting to not have to change to 3rd to speed up, rather instead gently use 4th to gather speed, and thus save some fuel that way.
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's
1998 Z3 2.8i
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
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Points: 1365
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Posted: 28-April-2006 at 04:44 |
I'm surprised you car drops to 3rd when resuming speed. It takes quite a determined prod on the gas at motorway speeds to force a down change.
My '98 Audi A6 2.4 auto was also pretty heavy footed when resuming - maybe this is how cruise control works.
Must admit, I miss not having it on th Six. Very handy for sneaking past Gatsos.
If anyone comes across an '89 635 scrapper with cruise I'd appreciate a pm.
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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Brucey
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 744
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Posted: 28-April-2006 at 13:50 |
phb10186 wrote:
come to think of it, that makes perfect sense so as far as the consumption dial behaviour is concerned; i.e touch the gas and the econometer goes east.
Another point in this department - if BMW designed what was a pretty clever piece of electronics for the early 80's, they also designed a fairly poor cruise control system, since the economy loss is huge when on cruise, as it seems to be pretty heavy on the gas to maintain speed. It is a shame that the cruise does not have a setting to not have to change to 3rd to speed up, rather instead gently use 4th to gather speed, and thus save some fuel that way.
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in 'E' you should be able to use about 1/3rd throttle above 62mph without provoking a downshift from 4th. If your does anything different I suspect the most likely cause is a worn throttle potentiometer- this is used as one of the signals for the gearbox computer and is a commonly faulty part on older cars.
cheers
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005
Location: North London
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Points: 331
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Posted: 29-April-2006 at 09:49 |
No it is like you have described - and the cruise is working as it should be, clearly the emphasis was never on economy, which I knew anyway.
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's
1998 Z3 2.8i
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Brucey
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 744
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Posted: 29-April-2006 at 12:53 |
-eh? your (and my) model 6er have the tallest gearing going, for economy. Mine does 30mpg on a run which is pretty good for this size engine. On the motorway it accellerates in top gear quite adequately without kicking down into third; once above an indicated 70mph it takes more than 3/4 throttle to get it to kick down. I don't have cruise on mine, but on other vehicles I have owned it was very rare for the cruise control to apply more than half throttle under accelleration. I can't help but think there might be something amiss if yours tends to kick down when you don't want it to when driving at speed.
cheers
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
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Points: 1365
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Posted: 29-April-2006 at 13:59 |
Agree with Brucey on this.
If you don't want the cruise, pull it out & I'll buy the bits!
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005
Location: North London
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Points: 331
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Posted: 29-April-2006 at 14:15 |
Well - my car is defo in need of a tune up, something which I havn't had the time to get round to due to work pressures. I get about 25 mpg tops - even though the econometer suggests 30 or so, the pumps tell me its about 25.
I have never driven another BMW with cruise, and so could not compare it to mine - in any case I hardly ever use my CC due to the fact that the roads in this country are too busy most of the time. I tend to use it when my foot gets tired!
As far as the down change goes, this happens when the CC stalk is pushed forward. It accels for about 5 secs in top, and then seems to change down in to 3rd and keep on. However the 10 or so times I have used the accel function have been at about 60 mph - so that could explain this - at 80 i suspect it wouldnt change down.
I used to own a Honda Accord with a vacuum operated CC system, with buttons on the sterring wheel - although mechanically different, in practice it did the same thing as the 6 does, and was also never as economical when running on cruise. Incedently the Accord did not have an econometer at all, so I went by the fuel gauge on a common journey I used to do!
This was an '87 Saloon 2.0 EXi with a 12 valve engine - and it never did more than 30 mpg on the motorway either. Although on the combined cycle I did fare much better than the 6, which does about 12-15mpg in urban conditions as far as my experience goes.
Actually, now that I remember the Honda, the vacuum system moved the accelerator pedal, which you could feel and see, whereas the BMW system does not have that feature.
I just wonder how the manual 6's fare on motorway economy compared to the autos.
Edited by phb10186
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's
1998 Z3 2.8i
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Brucey
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 744
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Posted: 30-April-2006 at 07:32 |
phb10186 wrote:
This was an '87 Saloon 2.0 EXi with a 12 valve engine - and it never did more than 30 mpg on the motorway either.
I just wonder how the manual 6's fare on motorway economy compared to the autos.
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I had an aerodeck with the same engine; 30mpg was average, did nearer 35 when driven at 70-75mph on cruise.
Manual 6ers with the same 3,07 diffs and the overdrive box do the same or better than the 4 speed auto cars (although the top gear ratio is slightly lower). With the dogleg manual box, shorter diff ratios, or the three speed auto the fuel consumption is significantly worse.
cheers
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
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Posted: 01-May-2006 at 03:40 |
phb10186 wrote:
the econometer suggests 30 or so |
The "clapometer" tells more lies than a Labour politician! It's probably the most useless addition BMW has ever made to it's cars. Personally, I'd rather have oil temp/pressure showing than that wildly swinging needle! Believe the M3 had this.
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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