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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
Status: Offline
Points: 632
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 11:34 |
Check it out! wrote:
TPS on the motronic system is just a W.O.T. for
those who havnt looked into engine management.
This is basically a throttle on/off switch, it doesnt tell
the ecu where the throttle is merly if it is on or off of
idle.
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Nonsense! It also has a full load switch!
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
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Points: 632
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 11:42 |
dog man wrote:
Wasn't there a silver E28 with
a fitted E34 3.8 lump in TBMW a few years back??
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Yes indeed and therein lies the problem - spend
£3000+ building an M30 which might make 300 bhp
or spend half that on a 3.6 E34 M5 engine (£1500 is
plenty) which is guaranteed 300 bhp, perfect
driveability and reasonable(ish) mpg. Remove all the
air pump crap, ditch the catalyst and grind out all the
air injection stubs from the exhaust manifold. With a
chip it should be good for 325 bhp.
It also drops straight into where an M30 came from
because the blocks are similar. I'm sure even Andy
335 (thanks for the quality info mate!) would have
condidered this if he knew how far he'd be going!
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Check it out!
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 02-May-2004
Location: Bristol/ Glos
Status: Offline
Points: 373
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 11:51 |
Drew540i wrote:
Check it out! wrote:
TPS on the motronic system is just a W.O.T. for those who havnt looked into engine management. This is basically a throttle on/off switch, it doesnt tell the ecu where the throttle is merly if it is on or off of idle.
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Nonsense! It also has a full load switch! |
I would suggest taking the tps (w.o.t) apart and looking.
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www.335itc.co.uk
Its gonna be finished for summer!!! thats the plan!!!
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 16:52 |
Drew540i wrote:
spend
£3000+ building an M30 which might make 300 bhp
or spend half that on a 3.6 E34 M5 engine which is guaranteed 300 bhp, perfect
driveability and reasonable(ish) mpg.
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Exactly. Why try & reinvent the wheel?
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
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Points: 1365
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 16:55 |
Check it out! wrote:
I would suggest taking the tps (w.o.t) apart and looking. |
What's all these TLA's? Thought you said you didn't know much about Sixes?
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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Check it out!
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 02-May-2004
Location: Bristol/ Glos
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Points: 373
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 16:58 |
Its the same part as on the e30. a car i know a fair bit about.
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www.335itc.co.uk
Its gonna be finished for summer!!! thats the plan!!!
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Andy335Touring
Newbie
Joined: 26-June-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 20:40 |
Drew540i wrote:
It also drops straight into where an M30 came from because the blocks are similar. I'm sure even Andy 335 (thanks for the quality info mate!) would have condidered this if he knew how far he'd be going!
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I know what you mean mate, the M5 lump would make an excellent swap, though it's a more involved and expensive one to start off with.
The extra things over and above the M30 swap is the height of the M5 engine can cause problems so i've read,(custom ?)exhaust manifolds and swapping over to an old brake booster set up to allow enough room for the plenum or smaller servo and chop a small lump out of the plenum. Nothing to difficult though.
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 21:29 |
Well I suppose in comparison to squeezing an M70 in it isn't too difficult!
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 23:11 |
Check it out! wrote:
I would suggest taking the tps (w.o.t) apart and
looking. |
And I would suggest you actually know what it is
you're talking about. It's amazing how much of a fool
you look when you make a glib comment which is
oblivious to the facts!
A throttle position switch does three things:
1.) At rest, the tiny microswitch (often referred to as a
Burgess microswitch after the company that makes
it for Bosch) is depressed. This tells the ECU that
the engine is at idle.
2.) Just off idle, the microswitch is released which
then switches the ECU into part throttle mode,
accessing the part throttle maps.
3.) When the throttle switch is fully wound around,
two contacts are closed together which sends a
signal to the ECU to access the full throttle maps.
Maybe you'd care to argue with BMW and Robert
Bosch about this? If you like, I can photocopy and
send you the relevant pages from the BMW Motronic
service information manual?
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Location: The Mansfield Massive
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Posted: 29-June-2006 at 23:14 |
Check it out! wrote:
Its the same part as on the
e30. a car i know a fair bit about. |
Actually it's not the same. M20 and M30 throttle
position switches work the other way round from
each other and do not interchange..........
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Andy335Touring
Newbie
Joined: 26-June-2006
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Points: 7
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Posted: 30-June-2006 at 00:02 |
Just to expand a little and see if my understanding is correct or not ?
1.) At rest, the tiny microswitch (often referred to as a Burgess microswitch after the company that makes it for Bosch) is depressed. This tells the ECU that the engine is at idle.
At tick over the AFM flap is closed(?), the air by-passes the flap, the by-pass area is adjusted by the tick over mixture adjustment screw ?
2.) Just off idle, the microswitch is released which then switches the ECU into part throttle mode, accessing the part throttle maps.
Part throttle, the ECU referances the AFM(air flow),CPS(rpm), IAT and coolant temp sensor and works out the timing and the fueling from the part throttle maps, further adjustments are added on for IAT and coolant temp. Coolant temp needs a bigger adjustment than IAT ?
3.) When the throttle switch is fully wound around, two contacts are closed together which sends a signal to the ECU to access the full throttle maps.
WOT, the AFM flap is pinned open by he force of the air(depending on RPM ?), ECU ignores the AFM and reverts to an RPM based WOT map but will still be affected by IAT and coolant temp corrections ?
Of the E30 generation Motronic only the M3 had a baromic sensor which is located inside the ECU casing ???
As i said i'm just kind of testing out my understanding of Motronic management from the E30 era, have i got it right ?
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
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Posted: 30-June-2006 at 11:16 |
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
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Posted: 30-June-2006 at 11:24 |
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
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Posted: 30-June-2006 at 18:30 |
Yes Andy that's pretty much it but consider that the
ECU needs more 'instant info' - the air flow meter will
always be one step behind the throttle switch. Think
of the TPS as giving the ECU some groundwork for
the air flow meter to polish off. As a test, take the
throttle switch plug off and see how utterly fartless
the car is!
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AndyS
Really Senior Member II
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Joined: 21-August-2003
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Posted: 30-June-2006 at 19:56 |
Another area of the AFM which is a bit u/s is the routing of the "cold" air feed right above the exhaust manifold! Not only that, but it changes diameter a couple of times too.
James Sohl engineered a better system which proved it's worth on the TBMW rolling road day.
Why didn't the air feed come from the n/s of the engine bay? Surely it would have only entailed turning the AFM around 180 degrees.
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AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
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