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215DMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 215DMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ring regulars - insurance
    Posted: 05-October-2006 at 15:47
This is from another site (northloop.co.uk)

Thought it should be aired !

QUOTE:
Called various insurance companies, firstly
Adrian Flux. I asked about cover for both road and
track cars. The very helpful young lady read me out a
very beautifully worded message drom her screen
that stated that the Ring is not covered both
'generally' and 'specifically'. I asked her what that
meant (reminded her the Ring is a public toll road,
not a track day, it has speed limits etc).

Her response was (along the lines of):

"General exlusions sir, they include items such as
you not being covered if you crash your vehicle whilst
under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Whereby we
would pay for any damage to the third party we would
not in any way cover you or your vehicle against
personal injury or damage. The clause relating to the
Nurburgring exists also within our General
exclusions - however as well as being a 'general
exclusion' it is now also a 'specific exclusion'. A
specific exclusion is unique to your policy, for
example if you were Third Party Fire + Theft a specific
exclusion will be no windscreen cover. A general
exclusion applies to ALL of our policy holders and
must be accepted before agreeing to take out
insurance with us. A specific exclusion is as I
outlined earlier".

I told her that I knew of some people that drive the
Ring and are insured with them (don't worry
everybody I had given her none of my personal
details so she had no idea who I was). She stated,
in no uncertain terms that there insurance does NOT
(in ANY way) cover use on the Nordschleife as it is
both generally and specifically excluded. If a person
had an incident neither that person, nor the third
party would be covered. The third parties own
insurance company would have to foot the bill for
physical or personal injury - however they would then
sue the non insured driver.
Now, imagine if you had an off, that resulted in
damage to someones expensive car and they
suffered injury that affected ther capacity to work in
either the short or long term.....

END QUOTE


This has me a bit worried now. I'm with Adrian Flux,
and there is no mention of anything to do with toll
roads unrestricted or otherwise or any mention of the
Ring on any documentation I have from them.
When I first got insurance with them about early
2005 i did ask about any restrictions in driving in
Europe, none were given. Nor on my renewal this
year either. So to hear they have issued restrictions
without informing me is VERY worrying indeed !

How/ Where are you supposed to find out about
these general/ specific restrictions if they don't tell
you, I can't find anything on there website either

Dave




Edited by 215DMX
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215DMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 215DMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2006 at 16:39
IF loads of people ring there insurance company to
ask we are all buggered ! catch 22?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevesingo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2006 at 17:03
Dave, you need to read your policy details AND the general policy/assumptions of the insurer. If there is no referance then you have a strong legal argument for the case that you are insured. I guess you have done this already.

Secondly, Adrian Fu**s (They screwed me proper once) are only a broker and therefor are not responsible for the terms of your cover, they mearly sell you the product. I find it difficult to believe that they can dictate terms to you outside of the underwriters terms.

Steve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UweM3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2006 at 20:20
--YOU are going on a race track.
--YOU are going to push things to the limit
--YOU might overdo it
--YOU decide how fast you drive

so why should everybody else pay for it???

Unless you make a SPECIFIC track insurance with an appropriate fee, I can't see why the insurance should cough up!

You should take it like a man when you stuff it in the armco. Like the poor fella who wrote the M5 off this weekend. He didn't moan for a second. Respect!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2006 at 20:49
I agree with Uwe regarding "real" track days in the UK and also about Mark who didn't complain once during the trip back to Calais about the loss of his M5.

Please just read, very carefully, the wording in the insurance docs but "even more pleading here" please, please, please, please do not phone them up and ask if they will cover you for a 20km piece of road that has the highest accident record in the region.

I recommend End of Topic on this now...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote texas2201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2006 at 21:07

Which Mark was that - not Mr Safe I hope?

My thoughts are with him - I am assuming nobody was hurt....

Martin - www.iconicmotorcars.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dannyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 05:02
I have my insurance through adrian flux and I disceussed track days with
them at the time of taking it out. I seem to remember that they said my
policy did not cover it as standard but extra cover was only about £80
with excess being 10% of the agreed value. Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoofty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 07:21

Did they mention whether that was £80 for a full year, or £80 for each specific day?

It's by no means cheap (esp if you spend a lot of time there!) but you can cover 90% of the value of your car at the 'Ring with Competition Car Insurance. They'll relieve you of £110 per day for the trouble, but if you absolutely need to be sure then it might be worth looking into.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UweM3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 08:33
Originally posted by Hoofty Hoofty wrote:

Did they mention whether that was £80 for a full year, or £80 for each specific day?


It's by no means cheap (esp if you spend a lot of time there!) but you can cover 90% of the value of your car at the 'Ring with Competition Car Insurance. They'll relieve you of £110 per day for the trouble, but if you absolutely need to be sure then it might be worth looking into.



That's £110 well spend if you thrash something round there worth £25+......
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 08:41
Originally posted by texas2201 texas2201 wrote:

Which Mark was that - not Mr Safe I hope?

My thoughts are with him - I am assuming nobody was hurt....



Eek! Who was it? Anyone we know??
Ciao,
Spokey

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rattusM3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 08:47

Of course you can get insurance for track days (separate payment per event) due to its controlled environment BUT you mention the Ring and I think you may be in trouble, also I have heard (but do not quote me on this) that you will be FLAGGED as a potential risk even by just querying the Ring.

Track Days, yes I will pay for extra cover if I feel it was necessary.
The Ring, I would NOT even bring it up in any conversation with my insurer AT ALL.

As already mentioned, we all know the risks, just get an ADAC card, I will be next year. Need to ask Kevin about this actually.

Kevin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyingalexf68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by UweM3 UweM3 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoofty Hoofty wrote:

Did they mention whether that was £80 for a full year, or £80 for each specific day?


It's by no means cheap (esp if you spend a lot of time there!) but you can cover 90% of the value of your car at the 'Ring with Competition Car Insurance. They'll relieve you of £110 per day for the trouble, but if you absolutely need to be sure then it might be worth looking into.



That's £110 well spend if you thrash something round there worth £25+......

Like an M5. £110 very well spent if you're doing a full day on the 'Ring. Might not be worth it if you're just doing one ar two laps on a busy day. Good to know it's available though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote korky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 09:41

From my couple of ring trips, the things to remember are, its a long way home, and if you dont have a trailer you need to drive it. Its unbelievably busy. There are cars and bikes taking all kinds of lines. There is very little room for error if you are at 10/10ths. Its a fantastic circuit! But I try to keep within my limits and remember the above (must admit the occasional red mist moment or 3)

 I try and treat it as a great weekend away, a nice social as well as some fantastic driving. I am amazed that, with very few rules, and a lot of very tasty machinery, there is not far more carnage.

 I am sure others treat it differently, but I assume I am not insured if it all goes belly up, so this approach works for me...

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UweM3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 09:45
and it's not only your own damage you have to pay for.
Armco repair, closure of the track, cleaning, towing fee....
That adds all up to several THOUSAND Euros in an blink of an eye.
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonners Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 11:20
I know this will sound boring and some of you won't like it but as I've said before if you take a naive approach on matters relating to insurance you will be crucified and hung out to dry.

Insurance law is unusual and the usual rules do not apply.

You have got to do your homework and you should never assume anything.

For example, someone suggested above that you can assume that you are insured for something if it doesn't say you are not. In other words if the policy is silent you reckon you're okay. That is nonsense, extremely dangerous and very very naive.

Let's imagine you're trying to claim for £25k self inflicted damage at the 'Ring. Or even worse - let's imagine that you've run into someone and rendered them a lifelong tetraplegic.

Now try convincing your insurer that even though the policy is silent you should be able to claim cover because the 'Ring is a toll road...

Guys - I'm not revelling in bad news - just telling you what you need to know

Edited by Jonners
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 215DMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 14:03
I think some of you are getting confused with TRACK
DAYS and road insurance and how it applies in this
instance.

The ring IS a public road during TF. BUT if you have
an accident and someone else is badly hurt and
couldn't work for 6 months. Their 3rd party cover
would cover any damage but YOU would be sued for
tens of thousands by thier insurance company as
you were driving without valid insurance!!! could you
afford that risk !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonners Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2006 at 16:34
Originally posted by 215DMX 215DMX wrote:

I think some of you are getting confused with TRACK
DAYS and road insurance and how it applies in this
instance.


Forgive me for being a pedant but even that comment adds to the confusion...

The confusion revolves around whether you are or are not covered under a road policy for losses incurred whilst driving on the 'Ring.

The policy may or may not make it clear whether cover for track days is included but a day at the 'Ring is not considered to be a track day by almost all insurers.

If your policy includes cover for track days do not assume that this includes driving on the 'Ring.

Again, sorry to be so pedantic but there is no substitute for absolute clarity in insurance matters

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 215DMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-October-2006 at 08:46
I think i was quite clear actually.

There is a EU directive which states all member
countries have to, by LAW, provide the minimum 3rd
party cover for you or anybody else.

However it seems if you call your insurance
company and ask them about driving on the ring
most will now say you are NOT covered. A note will
be made on your file.
This 'could' be a loophole for the insurance
companies to get out of this EU directive...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UweM3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-October-2006 at 09:51
Originally posted by 215DMX 215DMX wrote:

I think i was quite clear actually.

There is a EU directive which states all member
countries have to, by LAW, provide the minimum 3rd
party cover for you or anybody else.

However it seems if you call your insurance
company and ask them about driving on the ring
most will now say you are NOT covered. A note will
be made on your file.
This 'could' be a loophole for the insurance
companies to get out of this EU directive...


I would still try to claim for 3rd party stuff. Equal rights? How can I be excluded (only for the fact I have asked) and somebody else is not?
So what's the view on Armco damage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b7 eater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2006 at 12:38

Spokey and Martin      Can report that it was definately not Mr Safe!

 

Hope it wasnt anyone else we know.

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