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studyolic 
Really Senior Member I 
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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 Posted: 02-December-2006 at 22:53 |
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Thank you for the extremely detailed reply; I think I followed what you
were trying to get across! To translate this to my car, the immediate improvement in fuel consumption figures (albeit not quite to what I had 6 months ago) implies that the lambda sensor was indeed faulty. What you are saying is that the DME had adapted to the fault, so that the engine seemed to run normally, the only "give aways" being lack of punch under hard acceleration and poorer fuel consumption - but now, inspite of the new sensor, the DME still thinks it's compensating for a faulty one? So either; 1. the Indy deleted the adaptions, but it's going to take another 20-30 miles for things to settle, OR 2. He didn't delete the adaptions, and nothing's going to change on it's own? He's a BMW / Audi independant specialist; how do I ask him about deleting adaptions without coming across as a smart-a$$? What course of action should I follow? Give it a few more days to see if the performance improves? Or call him straightaway on Monday? Thanks again for your insight. 
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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bmwcare
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 02-June-2006 Location: Galway Status: Offline Points: 321 |
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Posted: 03-December-2006 at 04:41 |
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Firstly, find out what equipment he's using.
Secondly, ask for the figures for the following on datastream: Adaptive values Additive & Multiplicative - for both banks He probably won't give them and if he has the "proper" equipment he won't need to... An example of the values (using the E39, M52 523i mentioned earlier): ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- You need these values to evaluate fully - and also someone that knows what they're looking at. You also need 4 gas analysis and it really has to be looked at "live". Regards, BMWcare PS: If I was asked those questions I'd (politely) explain to the customer that it's more time, more expense (for me) and another charge... I'm only trying to help people understand that it's not a case of using an adjustable spanner, hammer and Vice-Grip to fix modern cars (and that's not as new as you think! MS40 in a 93 520i E34 had it, albeit an early version) Edited by bmwcare |
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BMW & Mercedes Specialist.
Galway & Surrounding Areas. www.bmwcare.com www.mercedescare.com All BMW models covered including E60/E90/F01/F10 with flash programming/CIP/coding as required |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 03-December-2006 at 09:20 |
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BMWcare, you're either up very late, or very early! If I may bother you one
more time. . . . I understand that this can be a complicated issues, requiring several diagnostic checks, and I am happy to pay for the guy's time. But if I ask him what equipment he's using and what the values are, the replies will probably mean nothing to me; how would I KNOW if he's using reputable equipment or not? Maybe I should just book in with my local BMW agent? I may not get to speak to the engineer personally, but at least they should have the right equipment and somebody who knows about this sort of thing? No? 
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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bmwcare
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 02-June-2006 Location: Galway Status: Offline Points: 321 |
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Posted: 03-December-2006 at 16:21 |
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It's like everything :(
You won't know... And most "diagnostic" guys are happy if it's 99%, and so are dealers. Plus - over here anyway - dealers don't want to be spending much time on an "old E39". Find out what equipment he's using - it will be a good guide. PM me when you get that info. Regards |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 03-December-2006 at 16:25 |
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thanks, will do.
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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Andrew Rolland
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Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Posted: 04-December-2006 at 08:37 |
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Hmm interesting post. I thought you had diagnosed a faulty lambda sensor about a year ago? Did you not get it replaced? You posted about your car revs dying when idling in car parks when turning (i.e. loading the engine with the power steering). I could be wrong, I can't quite remember when that was. Andrew |
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 04-December-2006 at 10:27 |
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Andrew,
you have a memory like an elephant! I bought the car just over 2 years ago, and had the stalling problem from day one if the aircon was off. I had it into the local BMW dealer for an inspection 2 about 2 years ago, and they replaced an oxygen sensor at that time. It has run pretty much faultlessly since, bar the stalling. I just leave the aircon on all the time. Just recently I noticed a rapid change in fuel consumption (only on the OBC, not at the pump), and a bit of a hole when flooring it. Otherwise it starts and runs fine. I've seen other stalling problems fixed by merely raising the idle speed to about 650 when the aircon is off. (Mine idles at about 450 with aircon off). I'll be interested to get to the bottom of this. Never heard of adaptions before, but it explains why the car was running pretty much normally except for fuel consumption. Will keep you posted. |
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 06-December-2006 at 16:35 |
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OK, booked in with BMW agent on Monday for an MOT and deletion of
engine and gearbox adaptions. Fingers crossed! |
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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Andrew Rolland
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Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Posted: 06-December-2006 at 19:13 |
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So I take it that BMW know what they are doing with these deletion of the adoptions? Hmm interesting to here the outcome. What about taking the battery out for a week! Haynes implies that the fault codes will be wiped if you disconnect the battery. Would that also wipe the adaption codes that the ecu has now got programmed into it? Andrew (who has a memory of an elephant!) |
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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studyolic
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Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 06-December-2006 at 21:28 |
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Booked with BMW under good advice; seems my indy doesn't have a reliable
diagnostic set-up. I had wondered about disconnecting the battery and touching the leads together. A contributor on another forum by the name of Hasso (swedish) has recommended this in the past as a "soft reset". I think that fault codes would probably be protected in some way. We shall see what transpires on monday. |
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 12-December-2006 at 17:54 |
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OK, just got the car back. On the commute home I let the consumption
figure run on the OBC (scary on a V8!), and the figures were much improved over last week. Gave it some welly on the dual carriageway, and initially it hesitated, accelerating in short bursts. I backed off, waited until it was all clear around me, and wellied it again. This time it seemed better, no hesitations, so I'm assuming it's "re-learning" my driving style? The BMW guy said everything had been deleted, and they didn't find anything else on the diagnostic, and that it would take a short period of driving for the software to adjust. I'll give it to Friday! On a negative note, got them to do the MOPT as well, found a worn upper suspension arm (or something like that) and after replacing that had to re-set the tracking on the KDS. £££££££ 
Driving report to follow! |
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 18-December-2006 at 19:06 |
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BMWCARE;
thankyou for your excellent advice. The car did indeed take about 70 miles to re-learn how it should run, and now it takes off like a scalded cat! I'd forgotton how nippy it can be. Also, my old problem of stalling at traffic lights and roundabouts seems to have gone, too. I figured that, if the chip was re-learning everything, then I would drive about with the air-con off for a few days to see if it "learned" not to stall. Although the revs dipped precariously once or twice to start with, it never actually stalled, and now it seems perfectly stable. Andrew, if you're there, I wonder if we should add "delete adaptions on gearbox" to the advice "get your Steptronic serviced"?? |
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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Peter Fenwick
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Joined: 27-August-2003 Location: Lost somewhere in time... Status: Offline Points: 6484 |
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Posted: 19-December-2006 at 17:43 |
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Rich, glad to hear it's all sorted
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Exharper
Really Senior Member I
Dont let the misses drive it!! Joined: 19-January-2005 Location: Sawley, Long Eaton Status: Offline Points: 444 |
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Posted: 19-December-2006 at 23:13 |
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Could you tell me what you said to the suited and booted man/women behind the counter at the dealer when they they said what can i do for you?? I may try this too as my car is running fine but its got hellish fuel consumption. I do the same milege week in week out on the same roads and same traffic and im getting less miles per tank every time i fill. Im down to 380 miles a tank now when back in september i was on a steady 430. I had a crankshaft sensor fitted that was gone for a while and a fuel pressure regulator valve and maff about 3 weeks ago. Maybe i need to replace the o2 sensor??? Just wundered if BMW knew what you wanted straight away and if that was on a price scale. Same price as diagnostic? cheers |
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Beemer dan 523i SE 1997 (184K) Canyon Rot Red, auto. 330 CI Msport Convertible, blue 51K.
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 20-December-2006 at 12:41 |
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I sheepishly told them that I had had a new lambda sensor fitted recently
elsewhere, which had helped but not cured the consumption, and not helped the performance. I understood that it was necessary to also plug in the diagnostic socket after fitting any new parts, and delete all engine and gearbox adaptions (ie adaptions made by the software to try to compensate for the faulty part). Could they please carry out a diagnostic check and then delete all engine and gearbox adaptions? (And I had this written down on a piece of paper that I gave the service suit). They seemed to accept that people go to independant engineers sometimes, and go back to BMW to have something sorted out. It wasn't a problem. I wonder if disconnecting the battery and touching the leads together would delete fault codes and adaptions? I have seen this recommended elsewhere as a "soft" re-set. Haven't tried it myself ever. |
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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bmwcare
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Posted: 21-December-2006 at 02:55 |
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No, it won't... BMWcare |
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studyolic
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Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 21-December-2006 at 07:34 |
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Yes, I thought that fault codes and adaptions would be protected from this
sort of thing. Would be too simple otherwise for uninformed owners to stuff things up!
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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BeemaBoy
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Starting a Collection Joined: 25-October-2004 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Status: Offline Points: 927 |
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Posted: 21-December-2006 at 07:42 |
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So just for the record, once and for all, you have tried this on an E39 and it does NOT work? |
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87 E30 320I
95 E34 525I Auto, Executive Package, Arctic Silver 98 E38 740I Steptronic, Silver |
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Andrew Rolland
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Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Posted: 21-December-2006 at 08:31 |
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Hmm Interesting post and point. I presume your gearbox still changes as it did before then? It hasn't been reset, i.e. it was just the engine adaption codes you got reset? The BMW ECU does both engine and gearbox, other cars there is a separate ECU for the gearbox. So we need to make sure we get a full diagnostic check done and a complete reset of all fault codes and adaption codes done in the future when we have any form of "issue" with the car . Andrew |
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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studyolic
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 09-July-2004 Location: Inchture, Dundee, Scotland. Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Posted: 21-December-2006 at 18:36 |
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Beemaboy,
No, I have never tried disconnecting the battery, and I do not know if it will delete adaptions; however I respect bmwcare's experience, and believe him when he says it will not help with deleting adaptions. 
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Richard.
Current; 2000 316i Compact 1.9 previous; 1999 535i V8, 1995 316i Compact 1.6 |
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Diagnostic check.
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studyolic wrote: