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M3Nally View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: cold start trouble E30 M3
    Posted: 26-November-2003 at 11:35
Bloody car wouldn't start last night 100 miles from home.

Had to call the AA man out, he put foor flat to the floor then feathered the throttle to get it going. Apparently foot to the floor cuts off the injectors and allows the engine to get rid of excess fuel as it was flooded.

Tries starting it again this morning and it went but runs like a pig until up to normal operating temp with an uneven hunting idle and need to rev it to get going.

I was reading a thread where a chap with E36 M3 had same cold start problem and some people said it could be coolant sensor as the injection won't know if it's hot or cold.

Any ideas? Could it just be damp in the rotor cap etc?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2003 at 15:48
Inlet gaskets could be your problem. As they warm they expand, sealing of the vacuum leaks thereby producing better runnuing conditions. Hunting idle is normally a pretty good sign of intake gasket problems. Also the small plenum support could be shafted, which pulls the plenum away from the intakes.
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David 87M3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2003 at 17:44
Could be intake gaskets, But I'd expect the car to "splutter" ( ie attempt to start whilst being cranked by the starter).

I'd reccomend replacing the coolant sensor. There are 2 of them on our cars. To find out the DME one next time the engine is running unplug them 1 at a time and the engine revs will rise (Plug it strait back in) thats the one to replace, the other is for the temp gauge on the instrument cluster. (Someone here will know what one is what but I cant remember)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2003 at 19:55
David

Thanks for the info,I don't think it is the inlet gaskets.

Can anyone tell me me where the coolant sensors are then?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2003 at 20:04
get your self a can of carb cleaner , start the car and spray all around the inlet manifold , give it a good old spray and if the engine note changes you'll know the inlet blocks need changing ..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2003 at 20:14
Originally posted by M3Nally M3Nally wrote:

David

Thanks for the info,I don't think it is the inlet gaskets.

Can anyone tell me me where the coolant sensors are then?



Have a look here This maybe helpfull, then again maybe not
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2003 at 21:15
here some notes from the US board: (it's the blue sensor)

...on the coolant pipe. It should read 300 to 360 ohms at operating temperature (temp gauge centered). Any higher reading is telling the ECU that the engine is cold, enriching the mixture. Also check the wiring to the sensor. Terminal 13 of the harness connector to the ECU is the correct one. Resistance from terminal 13 to ground should match the resistance of the blue sensor (with the wires plugged to the sensor, of course).
Another common cause of rich running is a sticking injector. Check the plugs. If one of them is more fouled than the rest, you may have found the faulty injector. Tap on the suspected injector with the engine running and see if the engine smooths out.
John
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M3Nally View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 09:52
Uwe,

Is the default reading to tell the ECU that the engine is hot or cold. If the default is hot then the ECU won't richen up when cold, which may be the problem. If the default is cold then it can't be the coolant sensor.

You may remember me posting that I have a cracked exhaust (across one of the crossover pipes) which is patched up temporarily. If this is blowing would that affect cold starting?

I'll have a spray with carb cleaner, check the plugs, rotor cap and arm and get a multimeter out. Then I'll go down the pub which is a much better thing to do on a Saturday afternoon.

Thanks lads
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David 87M3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 10:55
I'd reckon the lower the resistance the colder the engine. When I unplugged my temp sensor the engine revvs rise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 11:54
m3nally

you probably already know this but dont crank the car over too much as it can burn out the plugs!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 13:49
Eamo

I am still learning all the foibles of the E30 M3 and until I have had everything blow up on me (touch a huge piece of wood) and had to rebuild it I will continue learning.

This forum really is superb when you get grief, even if it is only minor.

I didn't know about the plugs.

Cheers
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 13:52
Chaps

I'm pretty sure the idle air valve needs looking at aswell cos it idles at 1000 rpm.

Is there an owmners repair manual anywhere about to buy, like the Haynes jobbies for E30 M3?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 18:58
If it has a air leak it will run faster. And you will find that if the engine is getting more air than what the mass air flow sensor is telling the ecu it will not run correct. I would go with the carb cleaner. Hope it might be some help.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2003 at 19:58

Is there an owmners repair manual anywhere about to buy, like the Haynes jobbies for E30 M3?

 

You could try Chilton's Repair Manual (No. 8427). This is for the American market but it does cover the E30 M3. I can't remember the price - maybe about £15?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2003 at 09:27
I'd say this forum is the best manual in the UK.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2003 at 13:33

Originally posted by M3Nally M3Nally wrote:

David

Thanks for the info,I don't think it is the inlet gaskets.

Can anyone tell me me where the coolant sensors are then?

Hmm, why do you think it's not the inlet gaskets. A hunting and rough idle is THE syptom of the gaskets going. Check that out also.

Other problems can be a sticking injector or the AFM going south. This wouldn't be as temperature related as you describe however... Or maybe it's the ICV, or...

So please do the carb cleaner thing and report back...

HTH,

Adwo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2003 at 13:35

Originally posted by M3Nally M3Nally wrote:

Bloody car wouldn't start last night 100 miles from home. 

Apparently foot to the floor cuts off the injectors and allows the engine to get rid of excess fuel as it was flooded. 

did he tell you that? What a load of BS... Think about it: put the pedal to the metal and the injectors will be cut off? How would you ever accelerate that way?

Adwo

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David 87M3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2003 at 14:44
Fully opening the throttle on a flooded engine is the way to get it going. I guess it allwos max air into the engine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2003 at 14:54

It could be leaking fuel injectors. Have had a poor running problem on my car after starting that clears itself after it has been running for about 5 seconds, or the revs have been raised to about 2000rpm. Was diagnosed by ML who state that the injectors trickle fuel into the piston and slowly flood the engine. If they leak a little bit like mine it is not to much to worry about, but they have told me that if the starting of the car deteriorates i need to invest in a new set of injectors. They cost about £50 each and the fitting is about 1.5 hours on a 635. So about £400 on my car and i would emagine £300 on a four cylinder M3. Worth having it checked out by someone mind you.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2003 at 16:26

Originally posted by David 87M3 David 87M3 wrote:

Fully opening the throttle on a flooded engine is the way to get it going. I guess it allwos max air into the engine.

At WOT the car will also receive the biggest amount of fuel. Once an E30 M3 is flooded the only solution is removing the plugs and drying them. So keep an extra set in your car...

Regards,

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