A couple of gremlins |
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bulletproofbomb
Advanced Newbie Joined: 21-November-2008 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Mike,
Do you have ASC+T? If you do then the brake system is full hyraulic, with no vacuum assistance. I think the principle site for vacuum leaks will be the PCV assy, though there is also a line to the fuel pressure regulator on the end of the fuel rail (on the RHS of the vehicle, facing towards the firewall). I would have thought the manifold area would make more noise, but perhaps we need an audio clip... ? I'd nose around real oem a bit as it shows the various systems that have vacuum lines (several...) |
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e34 540iT 6-speed
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jetsetwilly2000
Really Senior Member II Joined: 10-December-2003 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 701 |
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An audio clip, excellent idea bpb.
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E90 M3 DCT, E46 330d Touring, VW T5 wannabecamper
Previous: Disco 3 TDV6, 2x E34 540i6, E34 535iS |
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540 V8
Bavarian-Board Contributor Lick my badge Joined: 07-December-2005 Location: Running the asylum Status: Offline Points: 2280 |
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Mine has ASC yes. I have come to teh conclusion that the pedal is harder so I have to apply more braking pressure so get the brakes to come on. I have had a few staps at emergency stop just to test them and they stop fine but I just have to put more effort in to it. When the engine is off the pedal is solid so there must be some type of assistance whether vacuum or something else? I've had the glovebox off and the hissing noise is louder but I stil cannot see any pipes! Mike |
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Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
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bulletproofbomb
Advanced Newbie Joined: 21-November-2008 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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This system has a "bomb" which you should find lurking behind the front left foglight. This is a pressure-accumulator that enables several applications of the brakes with full assistance, so you can stop safely in the event of engine failure or failure of the power-steering/ABS pump.
Does the hissing sound change when you close off the cabin ventilation? Just thinking along the lines of hearing an engine bay noise via some other route (like through the blower motor and all the glorious air-distribution pipes that run under the dash). Edited by bulletproofbomb |
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e34 540iT 6-speed
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540 V8
Bavarian-Board Contributor Lick my badge Joined: 07-December-2005 Location: Running the asylum Status: Offline Points: 2280 |
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The noise does not change when I have the flaps open or closed, the vents open or closed and the heater motor on or off, the noise remains constant. The only one factor that dissipates the sound is when I'm accelerating. It doesn't even go when I rev from idle, it still remains constant, it only seems to fade when I'm actually in gear, moving and as I said before, the further I floor it, the more the sound disappears. I'm still totally at a loss. I will try and get a sound recording tomorrow and maybe a picture to show where the sound is strongest. I just hope the manifold won't need stripping again Mike |
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Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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Bit of a long shot but the hiss isn't from an engine bay mounted compresser that supplies air to your shock absorbers? I've heard of some Touring BMWs being fitted with air shocks that are controlled from a compressor.
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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bulletproofbomb
Advanced Newbie Joined: 21-November-2008 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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e34s run hyrdaulic SLS, with the pump being intergral with the PS pump.
e39s use pneumatic rear suspension units, so they will have a compressor somewhere. |
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e34 540iT 6-speed
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
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interesting to read that, I've seen an air reservior in the spare wheel well in an E39 Touring right enough.
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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jetsetwilly2000
Really Senior Member II Joined: 10-December-2003 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 701 |
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I think it's just got to be a vacuum thing. When you're accelerating in gear the engine is working hard and the vacuum in the manifold decreases, so a leak would be louder with an unloaded engine. (I just edited this as I had it the wrong way round before! Doh). Alternatively, wonder if the new PSV is making a noise? Have you tried listening without the acoustic cover Mike?
Edited by jetsetwilly2000 |
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E90 M3 DCT, E46 330d Touring, VW T5 wannabecamper
Previous: Disco 3 TDV6, 2x E34 540i6, E34 535iS |
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Crispy-d
Senior Member I Joined: 07-May-2008 Location: Ipswich/Bristol Status: Offline Points: 130 |
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I'm convinced it's a vacuum leak near the rear left side of the manifold area - but the vacuum in the manifold definitely decreases as you open the throttle, as it allows more air in :) so the noise should get quieter. It could well be the PCV gasket, the crack in the manifold (hope not though) or any of the little vacuum pipes round there. As Jetset says, take the cover off and just have a damned good listen and spray brake cleaner or something around the area. I'm sure you'll find something. EDIT: Oh, sorry Jetset - just seen your edit! Edited by Crispy-d |
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BMW E39 M5 - 2002
Land Rover 110 4.0 V8 - 1986 BMW E39 530d Manual SE - 2001 BMW E34 540i 6 Speed Manual - 1995 Volvo S90 3.0 CD - 1997 Volvo 460 Si Turbo - 1995 Volvo 340 GL - 1989 |
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540 V8
Bavarian-Board Contributor Lick my badge Joined: 07-December-2005 Location: Running the asylum Status: Offline Points: 2280 |
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I haven't put the accoustic cover back on yet as I have unfinished business under it! I spoke to a mechanic at my place and he has said if there was a gap somewhere in the manifold, the sound of the engine would be louder like as if my exhaust was blowing a little and there would more likely be a loss of power when flooring it. He didn't totally rule it out but said it was unlikely. I am totally happy with the repair I made on the manifold. I used plastic resin glue which was like a soft paste when I applied it and I smoothed it along the crack right along the outside whcih totally sealed it. Then I squeezed a thin bead of black mastic (which is really thick, sticky glue/sealant that is used for many automotive applications as it's a lot like silicone but oil, fuel and heat resistant and once it's on you will never get it off!) and I used my finger to spread it along the inside many times so it gave an elastic seal from the inside. I also did the PCV valve up whith the manifold off so I could see if it moved when I tightened it and it didnt budge so I'm very confident on my repair. (Well, 99% lol!) I'm working tomorrow and I know the guy in charge in the workshop is our technical specialist who is also a good friend. I'll grovel to him to try and help me find the source of the problem and thrash out some theories with him. I'll also try the brake cleaner test too just to be sure! Cheers guys, I'll let you know what I find tomorrow, if anything! Mike |
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Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
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Crispy-d
Senior Member I Joined: 07-May-2008 Location: Ipswich/Bristol Status: Offline Points: 130 |
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Hmmm - well I hope he's talking about the exhaust manifold then because the inlet manifold is the one with the vacuum!! and is the one that will hiss when it has a leak. It's the exhaust manifold that will blow and be quite loud if it's leaking. Also, the problem with our engines is that they are so torquey and monstrous anyway that even if there is a problem and not running on full power it's actually quite hard to tell! The only time I've ever noticed a true difference in performane was when I renewed the spark plugs and it seemed like a different engine and felt so responsive and so much more potent at high revs. Back to topic though...! (Sorry) I'm sure that your seal is good, just throwing out possibilites! It could be something completely different, but just from everything you've described I think the first thing you should try is to test for leaks around that rear left area of the air intake manifold and all connected lines. Once that's done and you can be sure it isn't that, then it'll be easier to let it go and think of other things :) I'm still a bit concerned that you've been told by a mechanic that it's very unlikely, because most people will tell you that a hissing sound from the engine bay of a V8 BMW is MOST likely to be the inlet manifold gasket because they are prone to going. And considering that's just been tampered with it's the first thing I'd have thought he would think of!! Anyway, I hope you find something tomorrow - good luck! |
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BMW E39 M5 - 2002
Land Rover 110 4.0 V8 - 1986 BMW E39 530d Manual SE - 2001 BMW E34 540i 6 Speed Manual - 1995 Volvo S90 3.0 CD - 1997 Volvo 460 Si Turbo - 1995 Volvo 340 GL - 1989 |
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jetsetwilly2000
Really Senior Member II Joined: 10-December-2003 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 701 |
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Morning chaps!
Didn't know the inlet manifold gaskets were prone to go - must file that away with the wobbling pulley nugget! My twopennorth is still that having done inlet work and then got a hissing sound that decreases under load, the simplest explanation by a country mile is a vacuum leak. Occam's razor and all that... It needn't be the manifold itself tho, it might be a pipe or something, maybe one of the blanking plugs on the PCV, etc. But my first act would be the brake cleaner test. If it makes the rev rise then you know 100% that you're looking for a vacuum leak. |
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E90 M3 DCT, E46 330d Touring, VW T5 wannabecamper
Previous: Disco 3 TDV6, 2x E34 540i6, E34 535iS |
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540 V8
Bavarian-Board Contributor Lick my badge Joined: 07-December-2005 Location: Running the asylum Status: Offline Points: 2280 |
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I have heard vehicles run with inlet manifolds off and the engine is a lot louder. If you look on realoem.com, the intake is actually called the intake 'muffler' it smoothes the airflow going into the cylinders and also covers the actual part the air is sucked in past the valves. This process is quite loud and the intake manifold does muffle the sound. If there was a significant leak, the engine would be louder and I'd be losing a lot of vacuum causing all sorts of fuelling issues. This is why my thoughts are simliar to jetset's, I'm thinking either a vacuum pipe is leaking (though I did renew some of these when replacing the PCV) or a pipe is possibly trapped. One thought that just ocurred to me now.... there are two pipes coming off the PCV valve. One one the drivers side that goes onto a fuel pressure valve on the rail and on the passenger side it goes off down under the nearside somewhere (passenger footwell area) The pipe on the passenger side was totallyperished and would not have survived being re-attached so I took a normal length of vacuum pipe and used that. When I took the old pipe off, it looked like there was a tiny little piece of plastic tubing half way down the pipe with an internal diameter of about 2-3mm. The mechanic said it looked like a joiner which must have been used previously and had broken off leaving a piece in the pipe. My thought now is, could this have been some type of restrictor that was meant to be there? if the vacuum has to suck through a smaller gap, it makes it more powerful does it not? My theory is, could this be causing the vacuum to be sucking too much and causing an imbalance? It's only an aside theory but wondered if anyone else noticed this in their pipe? Didn't manage to look on Saturday. I have been using a work van so not had the car either. I'll do the brake cleaner test tomorrow. Mike |
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Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
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bulletproofbomb
Advanced Newbie Joined: 21-November-2008 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Hi Mike,
The manifold is the bit that distributes the air from the single intake point to the multiple cylinders, so nothing runs without a manifold unless it has individual throttle bodies for each cylinder. You're right that the air filter and main intake box thing has a bit called the intake silencer- This is shaped and sized to reduce the intake resonances that would be unbecomming to a luxury motor car :-) You could remove everything up to the AFM (well that as well on ours) and it would still run. Anything that didn't go back as you found it (bar failed parts of course) is a suspect. I am not sure which pipe this is, but its bore without the joiner will be larger, so the restiction will be reduced. To clarify, the "vacuum" we are talking about is actually the lower-than-ambient pressure in the intake manifold. If there is a greater restriction then the pressure will be lower. I think your thinking is correct but I am afraid I am a pedantic engineer.... :-) The flowrate through the pipe (assuming manifold dperession the same as before) will be greater and could make a louder noise at the end of the pipe (if it is open somewhere in the cabin), and it may also result in more of the intake manifold noise being transmitted to the end of the pipe (where you would hear it). I have the pleasure of driving mine today, and planned to be under the bonnet at lunchtime, so I wil have a look around. |
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e34 540iT 6-speed
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Crispy-d
Senior Member I Joined: 07-May-2008 Location: Ipswich/Bristol Status: Offline Points: 130 |
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Ah right, I see you are talking about something completely different - the intake manifold is not a muffler but simply (actually quite complicatedly!) directs the airflow into each intake port. As said, without this the engine would simply not run - if it was the intake manifold (and not the silencer or air filter housing) that was removed from the engine that you heard then it was either a diesel or it had individual throttle housings (an M5 perhaps...?) or individual carburettors. The only additional noises you will get with an open intake system are a slight sucking/hissing noise from the throttle valve and induction noise when at half throttle or more. My old motorbike used to give off a little valve-tap as well but I don't think that would be noticeable on a car. My thoughts are are also similar to Jetset's still and all of the vacuum lines around that area become very week after 15 years of service. Let us know how the brake cleaner test goes. |
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BMW E39 M5 - 2002
Land Rover 110 4.0 V8 - 1986 BMW E39 530d Manual SE - 2001 BMW E34 540i 6 Speed Manual - 1995 Volvo S90 3.0 CD - 1997 Volvo 460 Si Turbo - 1995 Volvo 340 GL - 1989 |
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jetsetwilly2000
Really Senior Member II Joined: 10-December-2003 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 701 |
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Your wee pipe sounds like a likely culprit Mike. Sometimes I slag them off but BMW don't do many things by accident, so if that pipe looked OE then more than likely the plastic insert was indeed a restrictor. Have you binned the old pipe? Could you stick it back on and see if the hissing goes?
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E90 M3 DCT, E46 330d Touring, VW T5 wannabecamper
Previous: Disco 3 TDV6, 2x E34 540i6, E34 535iS |
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bulletproofbomb
Advanced Newbie Joined: 21-November-2008 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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I have had a check on mine just now.
The PCV backplate has one small pipe stub blanked off, one large pipe stub blanked off, one small pipe to the fuel pressure regulator, and one large pipe going off under the manifold to the cylone etc. The small pipe stub points straight back at the firewall. The large pipe stub points towards the lefthand side of the engine bay. I think my heater circulator pump is leaking very slightly, as some crustyness under it- joy of joys! |
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e34 540iT 6-speed
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540 V8
Bavarian-Board Contributor Lick my badge Joined: 07-December-2005 Location: Running the asylum Status: Offline Points: 2280 |
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I have 2 small pipes, one goes to the fuel valve, the other off and down to the passenger side, I too also have the larger blanked off one and also the one that runs under the nearside of the manifold which comes from the crankcase to the PCV valve. Along with a mechanic, we have both inspected all vacuum pipes and sprayed liberal amounts of brake cleaner all along them as well as around and across the entire manifold but it didn't cause any difference in the running. My mechanic seems to think the hissing pipe goes under the carpet and disappears along with the wiring loom towards the back of the car and cannot see any connection with the strange feling on the brake pedal. Just to eliminate it, I have fully bled the brakes also replacing the fluid which has made no difference. There is a pipe that runs along the front of the engine which is a pre-formed plasic pipe. This was disconnected during the manifold removal. As it's plastic and some of it is hard to se, I'm going to remove it tomorrow and inspect it to ascertain whether it may have a hairline fracture along it which may be causing the issue. Not sure if it works with petrols but I know the guys have run some of the vans at work after an engine re-build with the intakes completely off as it's easier to detect any running issues before the final parts are re-assembled so I was just going on this theory about the noise as these run much louder with the intakes off. Having said that, I am now confident after the brake cleaner test that I have no intake leaks. Mike Edited by 540 V8 |
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Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
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jetsetwilly2000
Really Senior Member II Joined: 10-December-2003 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 701 |
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OK, so now you have the hissing and you have a pipe that goes off into somewhere, and you have the old pipe that had a much smaller bore (and therefore might be expected to not hiss as much). Mystery (partially) solved maybe? It would be nice to know where the pipe goes! I'm trying to think what a vacuum could be used for on these apart from engine regulation, and not really getting anywhere.
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E90 M3 DCT, E46 330d Touring, VW T5 wannabecamper
Previous: Disco 3 TDV6, 2x E34 540i6, E34 535iS |
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