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Robbus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trouble starting cold 325TDS
    Posted: 02-June-2004 at 16:25
Hi All,

Been having some start up problems these last few days, nothing majorly serious, it's just taken 3 or 4 attempts to start the car each time to get it going. This is for the first cold start of the day. All other times in the day it starts up fine. Car was serviced last month, full inspection 2 jobby and apart from this it's been running faultlessly. Is this usual for a P reg with 86K or something obvious I can check out or what?

Slightly annoyed with it, must keep remembering the 400 miles I got to 3/4 of a tank... muussstttt remember!!

Thanks!
Rob
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dave 328 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 16:30
Were the glow plugs checked/replaced as these can hinder a cold start.

328 Coupe Sport, Digital climate, full leather, OBD computer, De-restricted with M50 manifold, big bore throttle, chippeduk remap, custom cold cone intake and X-brace
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Robbus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 16:45
hmmmm, couldn't tell you. If that's part of the inspection 2 service schedule then hopefully the answer is yes as it was serviced by a main dealer. Weird thing is it's literally just started acting up this weekend. Might be the starter motor but then why is it fine for the rest of the day? :S

Cheers,
Rob
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dave 328 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 17:08
Is it turning over properly? Coz if its turning over properly it won't be the starter.

I'm not sure if the glow plugs are in the inspection as they are not considered the same as spark plugs that are replaced at certain mileages. I'm sure it would say on the service receipt.

First morn start can be different to when you go home after work as the ambient temp will be warmer. Sometimes just a bit can make a difference.

328 Coupe Sport, Digital climate, full leather, OBD computer, De-restricted with M50 manifold, big bore throttle, chippeduk remap, custom cold cone intake and X-brace
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jonnie p View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 20:04

Sounds like is the glow plugs these are not a service item and should really be changed every 30k for it to start well every time if its not the glow plugs,it could be theglow plug relay,but have come across this problem more in the winter then spring,glow plugs are easy to do and only cost about 9 quid each.

 

jon

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 21:06
Cool, thanks guys. It gives me something to start looking at and I reckon I can stretch to 9 quid each ;)

Are they available outside the dealer network?

Cheers,
Rob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 21:22
Aha! http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/ came up with NGK Y-917U plugs at £6.80ea + DRAT.

Now then, do the fit just like spark plugs or is it strangely different with the need for specialist tools? BTW it's a 96 E36 model.

Cheers,
Rob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2004 at 11:57
They are similar to replace as sparkies. They normally have a a wire bolted on the top, but I suspect having never changed a glow plug before that they are quite straight forward.

328 Coupe Sport, Digital climate, full leather, OBD computer, De-restricted with M50 manifold, big bore throttle, chippeduk remap, custom cold cone intake and X-brace
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Robbus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2004 at 12:56
Uh Oh!!!

Just had a nosey in there and it looks pretty grim. What I suspect are the plugs are nicely buried beneath the inlet plenum so it's looking like I'll have to whip that off. I couldn't even get a good pic off the suspected plugs they're so awkward to get at!

Now then, removing the inlet plenum. Looks quite straight forward to me. Undo the 4 bolts on the shiny thing - circled red - and then the bolts that clamp the ends of the runners to the head. Question, is there any coolant passages around there that won't like being disturbed?


While we have a pic up, any ideas about the nice oily mess circled in blue?

Also where is the plug relay? I might as well check that while I'm in there. Here's the main fuse/relay box. Relays don't appear to be listed though, handy that!


Cheers,
Rob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2004 at 21:03

Right then rob,the oily mess in circled in blue is proberly your rocker cover gasket leaking which is a nice and easy job,

Right doing the glowplugs is a bit tricky but hey thats life mate i have been a mechanic for 16 years now and it STILL doesnt get any easy,cars are made to pi$$ mechanics off i can asure you,i will look tomorrow to see how long it says in the repair times manual to give you a guide of how long it should take you,where about do you live?

 

jon

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Robbus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2004 at 01:25
Thanks Jon, all input is greatly appreciated.

I'm in Macclesfield in the back end of Cheshire, shortly moving down to the back end of Cambridgeshire. Dunno what that says about me ;)

Something interesting to throw into the equation that occured to me today when the car started first time from cold (grrrr) is the weather. The days that it hasn't started up right have all been really hot, today on the other hand has been crappy, cold and rainy. Soooo, is there some cunning ambient temperature sensor that affects the fueling that may be screwed up?

Cheers,
Rob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2004 at 22:04

-sounds like you might be onto something with that observation. Given that changing the glow plugs is a PITA maybe you could check to see if you are getting volts on them or not during cold starts- it may well be a sensor problem.

-on petrol engined BMWs there is a temperature sensor that has the same effect as a 'choke' and there are several flavours of sensor for the same engine depending on the installation; if they get the sensor temperature rating wrong or it goes a bit flaky you get the same sort of problem i.e. it starts well from freezing cold but not so well from a 'tepid' state.   Your diesel may have a similar arrangement.

-there will also be a relay that drives the glow plugs, and this could be faulty too.

-also, do check the battery condition and earthing arrangements as well. If the volts are low the engine may still turn over but the engine management system will be rather confused. This does not tally with your hot/cold start observation though, so I don't think it is that likely. 

I hope this helps

cheers

 


~~~~~~~ Brucey   ~~~~~~
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Robbus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2004 at 15:52
Burger!

Well from that you may guess that things still aren't right. I went through the pleasure of swapping the plugs, which to be honest wasn't too bad a job just very fiddly once you're at the plugs and there's a couple of real sod nuts to get of at the back end of the inlet manifold. Anyway All the old plugs came out easy enough to reveal they were in pretty good nick, just a light coating of soot that was easily rubbed off with some kitchen paper. Hmmmmm! I swapped them all out anyway - clearly I have masochistic tendancies. Startup is still a bit hit and miss though, one plus point is the exhaust wasn't smoky.

Looking in the inlet runners they were all coated with oily soot, probably not too surprising for an 87k engine but maybe the fueling's slightly off all over and running too rich? Not too sure really as I'm not that clued up on diesels. Pretty good excuse to get it remapped though ;)

I also swapped the rocker cover gasket while I had the tools out. All in, both jobs took me around 3 hours. If I could've figured out how to get the box of wiring, at the top of the bulkhead, completely out of the way it would've been a bit easier to strip the large parts off.

Think it's time to habd over to a specialist - curses!

Cheers,
Rob
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