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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 07:10
Originally posted by pma1ums pma1ums wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

 I would like my 328 back

i thought you mite at least given the honda a few more months peter

sorry i just had to throw that one in

but yes you are indeed correct .you have got a lot of car for your money .yes an M3 would be better but in a real world we are limited to our budgets

I only said on some days. Normally when i'm stuck in traffic or driving on a motorway.

An M3 would have been better because it is a better compromise between performance and comfort. I could have stretched to an E36 3.2 Evo but the running costs would have killed me  

Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 07:16
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

Originally posted by spokey spokey wrote:

I think an E36 318i would step out a lot easier than a Ford Focus as well (having driven both.)

Are you sure. My 328 would only step out at the back if I got on the power mid bend. Otherwise it just tended to understeer. Also My wifes focus can be made to lift off oversteer, unlike my 328. In fact if the BMW ever did lose the back end mid corner, backing off brought it back again. I have read a lot of reviews about the lower powered 3 series models saying that you wouldn't know it was a rwd car by the way it drives.



Errrr .... every BMW I've ever driven would straighten out by backing off if the tail started sliding ... provided you started steering into the slide or caught it very early. Otherwise even a 318 would just slide (sideways) to a stop. I know, because they used to use E36 318's at the skidpan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 07:34
Originally posted by spokey spokey wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

Originally posted by spokey spokey wrote:

I think an E36 318i would step out a lot easier than a Ford Focus as well (having driven both.)

Are you sure. My 328 would only step out at the back if I got on the power mid bend. Otherwise it just tended to understeer. Also My wifes focus can be made to lift off oversteer, unlike my 328. In fact if the BMW ever did lose the back end mid corner, backing off brought it back again. I have read a lot of reviews about the lower powered 3 series models saying that you wouldn't know it was a rwd car by the way it drives.



Errrr .... every BMW I've ever driven would straighten out by backing off if the tail started sliding ... provided you started steering into the slide or caught it very early. Otherwise even a 318 would just slide (sideways) to a stop. I know, because they used to use E36 318's at the skidpan.

But a skid pan is designed to be very slippery. In normal dry conditions it is very difficult to get an e36 to step out at the back. If you go in too fast they simply understeer, You need to put enough power down when exiting to brake the rear wheel traction. Not very easy in a car with fat tyres and only a 1.8. BMW designed the e36 suspension to remove the tail happy nature that the E30 had. A skid pan is supposed to represnt road conditions at their worst. A focus can be made to lift off oversteer in any weather. A 318 will only power oversteer in very slippery conditions.

Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 07:39

& even @ that, it'll spin alot of power out the inside wheel, so you need to bung it in @ decent speed to get roll oversteer, and then continue it on with the power as long as possible. Limmos transform the BM's. Now if they made a RWD focus...  (only messin', before I get lynched!)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 08:56
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

You need to put enough power down when exiting to brake the rear wheel traction.


It's called "driving", Peter.

I've broken rear traction on dry roads in everything from 316i upwards. The only car I've found remotely challenging is the 116i, and with a little concentration, that becomes quite driveable, too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 09:47

Originally posted by spokey spokey wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

You need to put enough power down when exiting to brake the rear wheel traction.


It's called "driving", Peter.


Really!

I'm glad you pointed that out.

As TJ says without a LSD most BMs, when they break traction at the rear, will simply spin the power away through the inside wheel. My 328 certainly would. Even it would only really break away from the back end in wet conditions. In the dry you'd have to be driving like a madman, far to fast for public roads. 

If you genuninely can get an e36 316/318 to slide from the back on a roundabout in the dry then I take my hat off to you.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 11:43
OMG....ding-ding round 3

Ok lads so we've established that hondas are better than lexus??..no no sorry lexus are better than bmw's...no that wasn't it hondas are better than audis...ughhhh bmws are better than ferraris ????

Within a price range is a car that will suit its drivers needs, being a 118d to honda typeR or a bmw m3 to an audi RS6...All cars mentioned are to me of good build quality and drivability...Of course some do things better than others...but you get what you pay for and its no less fun being in either of them.

My argument is that there is no distinctive car manufacturer out there that can win hands down...bmw certainly can't...lexus not...mercedes nah..But what we are seeing is a trend of good concept and designing from all makes. Soon cars will be totally identical just rebadged...like we're seeing already



335d evolve 354bhp/742nm....M3 SEE YA!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 12:42
Originally posted by m3tiko m3tiko wrote:

Soon cars will be totally identical just rebadged...like we're seeing already

Sadly I think you may be right.

So many posts it's hard to keep up but here goes:-

I didn't say the NSX was soft, I said refined which, compared to a Ferrari, it was. Compared to contempory Ferraris it was a better handling car too. The F40 was pretty much a track tool. Even if you insist it wasn't, they don't get used very much on the road. The 348 on the other hand was considered an evil handing bit of kit.

There seems to be some misconceptions about the reasons for having rwd. It's not for "hanging the tail out". Oversteer is not the fastest way through a corner & is a lot harder to handle than understeer. Because of this all manufacturers design in a dose of understeer to their cars in order to protect themselves from lawsuits by cackhanded numptys who suddenly find themselves with a talent deficit & a wrecked car.

The fastest way to drive is to avoid throwing the car around. Keeping it smooth & stable covers ground much faster. My brother is a traffic cop who is now an instructor for the police. It's unbelievable how fast he can get my E30 316 Touring to go just by reading the road & picking the right lines & braking points!

Unfortunately, the majority of drivers barely have the talent (despite what they may think) to keep the car on the road let alone make the best use of it. This is also the reason for all the DSC's & what have you appearing. The Sunday Times Driving supplement just tried a group of people with modern cars in an E30 & they were all shocked at how useless they were without their electronic aids.

As far as the refined v raw argument goes, why stop at losing some sound proofing & a/c? Go the whole way - get a Caterham or if you're hard enough, a Morgan. My father-in-law has one & it's as raw & focused as you can get. No electronic aids, no suspension & no grip. One mistake with that & you're off the road no problem! A real drivers challenge.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 12:48
now you're getting there! blower bentley anyone???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 13:24
E21 Baur, anyone? 
Ciao,
Spokey

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 13:44
good god no! we aren't hairdressers here you know...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 13:52
Oi! 

The Baur isn't a hairdresser's car, the Z1 is!
Ciao,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:00

he he he!  no worries!!

E21 323i - the car for the man with side window wipers!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:17
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

he he he!  no worries!!

E21 323i - the car for the man with side window wipers!!



... and brown trousers.
Ciao,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 15:09

A Caterham is just a little bit too impractical for me. I think an elise would be about as minimalist as I'd be prepared to go. After all I need to drive my car every day. A caterham is a weekend car at best.

Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 15:30

Noble M400.

All the dangers....and enough power to REALLLLLLLY hurt when it all goes wrong!

The benefit is that you'd be protected by a tubular spaceframe that is about to make the M12 the first car to have it's roof chopped off.....and not need a single piece of extra strengthening.  As ridiculous as that sounds, it's true.  Not a single ounce of extra weight and the car will lap in the same time as the hardtop!!!!

I don't want one.  I do need one.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2006 at 20:42
Yes, but when a car is that light even one small pork pie will seriously affect your power/weight ratio!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-January-2006 at 03:43

... best to have that 'brown trouser' moment before you get in so, and thus be 'fully optimised' for lightweight motoring!!

If the Noble needs no extra strengthening, would it not be even a little bit lighter than its fixed roof brother? Or is the hood/targa arrangement around the same weight? I can't wait to read what that new Noble is like - expectations are high based on their current models.

Going back to the topic a mo, you're right AndyS the tail out isn't the fastest way. But as a fun thing to do tis great!  You don't really get the tail out on public roads anyway except on roundabouts, junctions, and the odd well sighted corner. And on the track getting the fastest possible lap is only half the story - if you're not specifically keeping up or trying to lose someone, then steering with the rear is primarily what you're at, and is a bit of a holy grail for alot of enthusiasts.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-January-2006 at 04:43
Yes, just in case that was aimed at me, I know it's not the fastest way of getting anywhere, but it does put the biggest smile on my face. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-January-2006 at 05:38

... and having a game of Simon says with brake pedal, key, TC button etc isn't exactly encouraging a bit of tailout, is it?!

So Shame On YOU, Lexus!  (thought I'd steer things back on topic there )

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