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PatchRick View Drop Down
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Points: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PatchRick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 18" Alloys -Vs- 17" Alloys
    Posted: 11-March-2009 at 14:43
Hi All,
Just back today from a pre-NCT check with the wizards at Wyse's Garage in Clogheen.  I had to get a steering mount replaced on the passenger side due to wear.  I was told that the 18" Alloys are very hard on the car and I know this is the case cos I feel every pebble I go over! Would it be worth replacing them with 17" alloys?  Would there be much difference in ride comfort etc?
Ta.
PatchRick

Current: 2001 E46 318 Ci
Previous: 1994 E36 318 iS
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Dergside View Drop Down
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Joined: 16-May-2004
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Points: 4000 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-March-2009 at 15:22

Mrs D had a 318Ci when I got my 330Ci.  Her's had 45 profile 17's while the 330 has 50's on 17's.  Otherwise the suspension is pretty similar and the difference in ride comfort was noticable, 330 being more comfortable, but maybe feeling a tad less sporty, although no noticable effect on grip, etc. 

Going from 18's to 17's would also bring a profile change so it should be quite noticable.
Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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b318isp View Drop Down
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Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b318isp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2009 at 10:37
A drop in size would have a number of potential benefits due lighter rims (possibly), less of a flywheel effect and increased tyre wall height - improved ride, better braking, better low speed acceleration, better steering reponse, more controlled breakaway on the limit and cheaper tyres.

You might guess that I'm not a fan of large rims

Edited by b318isp

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PatchRick View Drop Down
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Points: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PatchRick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2009 at 11:45
Thanks for the replies guys.  Next thing is where do I get a set of 17" OEM alloys?  I like the 5 x twin spoke type. Obviously I would want to trade my own against them.
PatchRick

Current: 2001 E46 318 Ci
Previous: 1994 E36 318 iS
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larzyh View Drop Down
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Points: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larzyh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2009 at 21:20

b318isp - I am not sure why you think the taller tyre would give better steering response or better braking. I certainly would not put 18's on an e30 but for an e46 coupe the main drawback is a harsher ride. BTW hello from over at the Cloney forum; it's interesting when people use the same username for different fora.

I changed from 16" to 18" and while the ride definitely got harder, I also got several improvements including steering response.

PatchRick - why not change the whole car for something softer? I hear the French make really comfortable cars...

 
Larzyh.
Previously or currently, in the family: '77 E21 320, '78 E21 320, '79 E21 320, '87 E28 520i, '88 E30 325iC, '95 E34 525i, '98 E39 528i, '98 Z3 2.5, '98 E38 740iL, '95 E36 Compact, '99 E36 318iT, '02 E46 318iT, '96 E34 525tdsT, '98 E38 740iL...
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Points: 4000 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2009 at 22:51

I'm sure Brendan can speak for himself but I suspect that what he's getting at is the distinction between grip and handling.  The grip levels that the lower profile tyres give is unquestioned.  It would take a lot of hooliganism to lose an e46 on 17's or 18's.

Handling is a more subtle blend of grip, flexibility (side wall give), steering fluidity and balance from on and off throttle balancing that means that my 325i on 15" 60 profiles can do point A to point B cross country runs at no disadvantage to the 330 with more power and lower profile tyres.
Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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Points: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larzyh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2009 at 23:07

I accept that larger wheels don't neccessarily make for better handling but it is no coincidence that higher performance cars tend to have less air between wheel and road...

I can see no reason why your e46 330i shouldn't be quicker than your e36 325i in all circumstances; there isn't a massive weight difference (is there?) and in my 46 is, easily, better handling than my previous 36 (though they were both Tourings, as opposed to your Coupes).



Edited by larzyh
Larzyh.
Previously or currently, in the family: '77 E21 320, '78 E21 320, '79 E21 320, '87 E28 520i, '88 E30 325iC, '95 E34 525i, '98 E39 528i, '98 Z3 2.5, '98 E38 740iL, '95 E36 Compact, '99 E36 318iT, '02 E46 318iT, '96 E34 525tdsT, '98 E38 740iL...
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Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b318isp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-March-2009 at 09:40
It's to do with the flywheel or gyroscopic effect of larger rims. The wheel is harder to slow down and accelerate or change its direction (this is a very minor effect though).

Expensive cars tend to have expensive wheels which tend to have lighter weights, offsetting the flywheel effects.

F1 wheels are 13" diameter! They are only regulated in width and overall (tyre) diameter, yet the teams pick 13". I think Indy cars are no larger than 15".

P.S. Hello from HiFi world too!

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Points: 4000 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-March-2009 at 11:23

Originally posted by larzyh larzyh wrote:

I can see no reason why your e46 330i shouldn't be quicker than your e36 325i in all circumstances;

In terms of outright speed the 330 will beat the 325 in all situations.  The 330 is hugely competent but ultimately a little sterile or soul-less in communicating to the driver exactly what is happening beneath the wheels.  On the other hand, with the 325 I know exactly what's happening.  I can feel more through the steering, I can feel and manage the progression from understeer to oversteer, and vice versa, do more steering with the throttle, etc. than I can with the 330.  This ultimately means that I have a greater level of confidence that I know what's happening and am managing what's happening.  The last 1% of grip that the 330 has on 17's doesn't compensate for this.

The same leap  in terms of handling can be made with the e30/e36 comparison.  My only reservation with the e30 (and ultimately why I personally prefer the e36 handling) is that its easier to make a big mess if you overcook an e30 (for example if you have to back off mid way through a corner that you have committed to).  It bites if you overstep the limit rather than give you a gentle dig in the ribs to let you know that you are approaching it.
Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b318isp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-March-2009 at 13:13
Originally posted by Dergside Dergside wrote:

The same leap  in terms of handling can be made with the e30/e36 comparison.  My only reservation with the e30 (and ultimately why I personally prefer the e36 handling) is that its easier to make a big mess if you overcook an e30 (for example if you have to back off mid way through a corner that you have committed to).  It bites if you overstep the limit rather than give you a gentle dig in the ribs to let you know that you are approaching it.


This seems to be the handling trade off. The E30 is very adjustable on the throttle, however few people are capable of controlling this fully. For increasing stability, the obvious flipside is less control (especially in absence of additional power).

One thing that is often overlooked is feedback. The E30 blares it at you like a foghorn. There is a very signifcant difference in feel to the car between, say wet and dry surfaces - even well before grip limits are approached.

I think it is a by product of the more sensitive and direct set up of the E30 (and its lower grip) and it is increasingly masked by the E36 and E46.

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