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flying dutchman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13-August-2009 at 22:03

As promissed here is the latest update on my Z3 upgrade.

Remap done this morning, not very impressed with Dashfixer no tyres pressure check nothing. Drove car in straight on rolling road for warm up run. Remap written and installed. first run not to bad but Power and Torque lines all over the shop.

First run results are:Power 206.7 bhp @ 5,594 rpm Torque 206.7 lbft @ 4,279 rpm. Remap changed after first run.

Second run:Power 208.7 bhp @ 5,560 rpm Torque 211.3 lbft @4.268 rpm.

Power and torque lines are now as smooth as a babies bum, with no peaks at all drives very nice and power is so nice without any flat spots. However using Shell V power fuel will improve power even more, also checked tyre pressure when I got home and back tyres where down to 27 psi so have put them up to 31 psi.

See you all on Saturday Onno



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-August-2009 at 08:11
Just out of interest what are the manufacturers figures for your car when new?  Just so we have something to compare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3 Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-August-2009 at 09:20

Have you put the M50 manifold and BBTB on yet?or are you still running the restricted one on the car?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flying dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-August-2009 at 12:38

I still use the origional manifold and throttle body. I believe that the figures are inthe region off just over 190 bhp. However when we did the rolling road in March the figure i made was 185.5 bhp @ 5250 rpm.

Onno

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigSix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-August-2009 at 12:51

Onno

Is that flywheel power or at the wheels, if flywheel what was your power at the wheels

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-August-2009 at 13:45
Originally posted by M3 Cliff M3 Cliff wrote:

Have you put the M50 manifold and BBTB on yet?or are you still running the restricted one on the car?



The M52 manifold may be "restricted" compared to the M50 but that extra top end power comes at a price - you lose out lower down the rev range. On the road, low & mid-range power is more important than (frankly acedemic) top end power.

It's all very well being able to say "I've now got xx bhp @ 6000 rpm instead of yy bhp @ 5700 rpm" but that figure is only at those rpm. Further down the rev range the engine isn't making anything like those peak figures.

Far more relevant is the improvement in the torque curve between 2000 & 4500 rpm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3 Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-August-2009 at 17:13

Yes my friend this is true but from what i am gathering the man is after power, and by adding a free flowing exhaust and less rectrictive air filter will also do no wonders for his torque figures but aid his power figures and help the engine breathe better.

Have you done this m50 inlet manifold and BBTB conversion to a car of your own?

how many cars make good power between 2k and 4k? if onno was after power in that region he should have looked into buying a turbo diesel instead.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-August-2009 at 10:22
Power & torque are not seperate entities. In fact "power" is derived from torque so, gaining more power is done through increasing torque which means a capacity increase. If the capacity remains the same then more "power" is achieved by moving the power band up the rev range. This gives a steeper power curve & a narrower power band rather than a flat curve with a wide power band.

I haven't done the M50 conversion partly because my 328 is an auto, partly because most of my driving is done where low end power is more important than top end & because I'd like to see exactly what the differences are - nobody seems to have done a before & after dyno run on the the M50 conversion.

Top end power is fine on the track where you can keep the revs up, less so on public roads. That's why a chipped 335d would be all over your M3 on the road & you'd only be able to take advantage on the track.

Plenty of cars "make good power between 2k & 4K". That's the main operating range so that's where engine designers concentrate the power. When people say they want more power that's where they want it.

If Onno wants more top end power then a set of wilder cams (with accompanying mods to make use of the extra breathing) is the way forward. See how Alpina did it. Capacity increase + better breathing = 245/260 bhp. There's also an aftermarket induction kit whch gives seperate throttles for each cylinder (like the M3). This is a ground up design rather than the M50 setup which is a bit of a workaround bodge but it does cost £1500.

You could use forced induction which works well with the M52/M54.

Neither route is cheap but as Carroll Shelby said, "Speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flying dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2009 at 16:40

Gents

I was in Gaydon this weekend and spoke with a guy called jason from bm tuning who was kind enough to have a look at the remap done on Thursday he found that some of the changes made where done incorrectly and told me to come back in about 30 minutes. As you know Iam not a believer in doing anything without a r@r but this guy has done wonders ( previous power was all at the top end ) now it is through the whole power band. Driving along the M6 on our way back the nose off the car coming up at every level when you put the foot down even in 5th gear at lower revs it just kept coming up no down shift required. result great. Maybe go and see Duncan tomorrow and do a run at the rolling road.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3 Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2009 at 16:42

Yes andy as i said Onno is after more "power" buy making his engine less restrictive and moving his power further up his rev range. (After 2-4k) All i was saying was buy adding a well proven product( search it on e36coupe .com)  this will aid him in his journey.

I personally carried out the m50 conversion on a past car of my own and believe me its well worth the money, not that its that expensive to start with.

Yes a chipped, twin turbo, three litre diesel three series would stick with an M3 on the motorway theres no doubt about it but they are two different cars with different design aspects. One with all its "power" between 2and 4k and the other doing nothing till 5k plus. 

Are you honestlly telling me re-mapers and tuners and engine designers for petrol engines concentrate all there time in making sure their engines produce peak power between 2-4k?????????

If i wanted all my power in that band what would the car be like after 4k?????   Fall on its nose like my turbo diesel company car?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flying dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2009 at 16:55

Cliff

As you know I have done the M50 engine as well. with ported head, cam change, 6 branch manifold, SS complete system, induction kit, opened up throttle body, changed airmass to airflow meter etc etc. So if i wanted to go that way again I would just fit an M3 engine into my Z3. Iam just having some fun at very little expence.See you soon mate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigSix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2009 at 18:43

Onno

The car sounded and looked good at the M6 toll, just hope the car is not going thru more fuel  as we seen you pull off from the pack, hope you get a better result at the RR 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3 Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2009 at 15:32

Onno do the e30 325 and the e36 325 share the same top end and inlet manifold??

I thought they were different?     

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flying dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2009 at 15:40

Cliff

Haven,t realy looked into it but I would think that I need a manifold and throttle body from the m50 e36 325 i guess. Neeed to get some help and info on this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3 Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2009 at 16:07

Yes onno its a worthwhile modification to do on your 2.8 as your currentlly running a 320 inlet manifold and throttle body. Read into this conversion on the e36coupe forum.

Cheers Cliff       

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