Hi,

I've just had the 2nd inspection II carried out on my 97 M3 Evo at a BMW main dealer. I have a concern regarding the type of engine oil they've used in my car, Castrol GTX Magnetec.

I believe BMW recommend a 5w-40 grade fully synthetic lubricant for the S52 engine. Since Castrol GTX Magnetec is 10w-40 semi synthetic I'm not entirely convinced the correct oil has been used.

Having queried this issue with the service department at the dealer I was told "the engine was designed to run on semi synthetic oil when new and we always put that oil in M3's. I wouldn't advise using fully synthetic oil on a car that age"

My M3 has done 54k and I doubt very much that the engine has worn to such a degree that it doesn't warrant using a fully synthetic lubricant. Having just forked out the best part of 800 quid for a service I'll be pretty cheesed off if they've used the incorrect type of oil.

I may just be fussing over nothing but any advice or information you have would be much appreciated.

EGT Redline

The only benefit between Castrol Magnatec and a 10W 40 FS is the synthetic drain interval can be longer, synthetics just hold the grade better.

You can use either.

Heres my understanding;

0W 30 FS is good as its light and will give the best cold start protection as it flows better and mpg as its a light oil. But doesn't go as high on the temp scale, so hard drives and track work may need atleast a 40 grade for higher oil temps.

5-10W 40 FS is a good all rounder and recommended in most engines, provides good start protection, more so the 5W and decent top end temp protection.

10W 60 FS is good and will protect well at high temps, but is a heavier oil so may rob power and mpg figures. Maybe recommended for the M vanos as it may like a heavier oil, but then again mine has vanos and so do all BMs after 95 ish. Not sure if the M vanos has a particular spec requiring this oil or not?

Simon the oil man should be able to clarify this!

No problems, looks like you pretty much nailed it with your reply.

5w-40 fully synthetic is a good all year round solution. A BMW Approved one would be preferable though.

Cheers

Simon

Went to my local stealer for an iol filter and some oil for my 97 evo. He gave me the castrol 10W-60 grade. This is a thick oil when cold and i can even hear the tappets on initial start-up which goes after the oil has warmed up. Not entirely convinced that this is the correct oil.

smash312 wrote: Went to my local stealer for an iol filter and some oil for my 97 evo. He gave me the castrol 10W-60 grade. This is a thick oil when cold and i can even hear the tappets on initial start-up which goes after the oil has warmed up. Not entirely convinced that this is the correct oil.

I am not suprised you have noticed a difference, the 10w-60 is very much the wrong oil for your car.

The dealer should have used 5w-40 or 0w-30 depending on what service interval the car is on.

I would make a telephone call to the dealer if I was you.

Cheers

Simon.

Thanks for the advice, i'm going to give the stealer a piece of my mind.

Simon,

On the E36coupe forum, the 10W 60 seems to be the 'norm & reccomended' for the M3. A few ppl seem to be pushing this oil on there.

The S54 and the S62 engines are the only ones that call for 10w-60 and even those are date dependent.

Cheers

Simon.

10w60 was originally recommended for e39 M5s of a certain age before being extended to all M5s then all e46 M3s. BMW recently changed the recommendation for all M cars and it now covers e36 M3s also (from a dealer).

I have a 97 M3 Evo and at the last service, the dealer (Dick Lovett) changed it to the 10w60 TWS dealer only oil.

I am happy with the oil and have had no adverse effects thus far.

Hope this helps!

edit: I should add that it wasn't Dick Lovett that gave me the full brief on the oil above. Like you I did some calling and the general consensus was that 10w60 was what should be used...

All I can say is that I physically have a BMW document issued 10/2004 which states as follows:

It is a list of approved BMW LL01 oils (0w-30, 0w-40, 5w-30 and 5w-40 only) and states that these oils are approved for ALL BMW engines except:

M43/CNG

S54

S62/E39 (up to 02/2000)

Where 10w-60 is approved.

I also have a further document BMW again dated 3/11/04 which states as follows:

S62/E39 up to 02/2000 specified SAE 10w-60 engine oils

S62/E39 02/2000 onwards specified LL01 SAE 0w-40

Other LL01 Approved oils. (0w-30, 5w-30, 5w-40)

The documents are very clear to me, if the dealers can't read them it's pretty sad really!

Cheers

Simon

Thanks for that oilman.

Last owner did the oil change at the dealer so he may have specified that 0w60 was put in...

Who knows?!?

Luckily the engine is leak free. If the car started burning even a little 0w60, at the rate that the dealer charges it would cost more than the petrol...

I use TWS Motorsport 10w-60, vanos much quieter than 20k miles ago when i started using it, once engine is allowed to warm up thick oil's do not create any problems. Thin oils breakdown at high temp's, not something vanos units like..

This oil is used in all current M3's from the factory including CSL's, it also should be noted that they changed to this oil after bearing recall's on most 01, 02, M3's 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you.

"Thin oils break down at high temps"

This is just not a true statement as it's the basestock that matters. Thin oils are normally synthetic (pao/ester) basestocks and they are in fact less prone to thermal breakdown than petroleum based thick oils.

The point here is that you don't need to use proper synthetic basestocks in thick oils (10w, 15w, 20w etc) as these oils can meet the pour points and flash points required by API or ACEA by using a petroluem basestock with Viscosity Improvers. The problem with viscosity improvers is that they are prone to "shearing" (thermal breakdown) with use. The wider the viscosity range, the more VI Improver required and the less thermally stable the oil becomes!

Thin oils on the otherhand 0w or 5w need synthetic basestocks to meet the API pour points of -35 and -30 degC and to meet the required flashpoints (over 200 degC). These wide ranges cannot be met by using petroleum based oils.

This explains more clearly:

VISCOSITY INDEX IMPROVERS

As a lubricant basestock is subjected to increasing temperatures it tends to lose its viscosity. In other words, it thins out. This leads to decreased engine protection and a higher likelihood of metal to metal contact. Therefore, if this viscosity loss can be minimized, the probability of unnecessary engine wear will be reduced.

This is where viscosity index (VI) improvers come in.

VI improvers are polymers that expand and contract with changes in temperature. At low temperatures they are very compact and affect the viscosity of a lubricant very little. But, at high temperatures these polymers "expand" into much larger long-chain polymers which significantly increase the viscosity of their host lubricant.

So, as the basestock loses viscosity with increases in temperature, VI improvers “fight back” against the viscosity drop by increasing their size. The higher the molecular weight of the polymers used, the better the power of "thickening" within the lubricant. Unfortunately, an increase in molecular weight also leads to an inherent instability of the polymers themselves. They become much more prone to shearing within an engine.

As these polymers are sheared back to lower molecular weight molecules, their effectiveness as a VI improver decreases. Unfortunately, because petroleum basestocks are so prone to viscosity loss at high temperatures, high molecular weight polymers must be used. Since these polymers are more prone to shearing than lower molecular weight polymers, petroleum oils tend to shear back very quickly. In other words, they lose

their ability to maintain their viscosity at high temperatures.

Synthetic basestocks, on the other hand, are much less prone to viscosity loss at high temperatures. Therefore, lower molecular weight polymers may be used as VI improvers.

These polymers are less prone to shearing, so they are effective for a much longer period of time than the VI improvers used in petroleum oils. In other words, synthetic oils do not quickly lose their ability to maintain viscosity at high temperatures as petroleum oils do.

In fact, some synthetic basestocks are so stable at high temperatures they need NO VI improvers at all. Obviously, these basestocks will maintain their high temperature viscosities for a very long time since there are no VI improvers to break down.

Cheers

Simon

I'm really the wrong person to talk about additives to.

I'm personally dead against them and for the life of me can't understand why the major oil companies don't sell them as it would be in their interest to do so.

I'm informed that the oil companies are wary of the performance of these products and their claims and simply do not want to end up in court.

Read into it how you will but, personally I wouldn't touch them and reading as I do prolifically about these things, I wouldn't recommend or sell them apart from octane improvers which in some cars are a benefit when low octane fuel is the only available.

Cheers

Simon

Oilman: Im using Silkolene pro-s 5w40 in my '95 E36 M3 3.0 which you supplied to me. Is this the best oil for my car with 89k miles on it,if not is there a better oil that i can use ? Also,how often should i change the oil ?

Cheers,Simon

535i sport wrote: Oilman: Im using Silkolene pro-s 5w40 in my '95 E36 M3 3.0 which you supplied to me. Is this the best oil for my car with 89k miles on it,if not is there a better oil that i can use ? Also,how often should i change the oil ? Cheers,Simon

Simon,

The Silkolene Pro S 5w-40 is as good as it gets, and ideal for your car.

Depending on the use of the car you are looking at 9,000 miles oil changes.

Cheers

Simon.

Hi there Oilman,

After searching through the oil threads for my E36 Evo a while ago, somebody recommended an engine treatment from Slick 50 to protect the Vanos. I have since purchased and used the Slick 50 fully synthetic engine treatment, it says it will last for a max of 80k miles and through several oil changes.

It did make the engine run more smoothly at idle when cold, can you advise what this stuff actually is/does and whether it is worth using again?!

PS. more recently I found some of your threads, nice to have help from an expert.

Personally I am not a fan of addatives.

You are better of spending the money on a better oil.

Have a read of this.

A WORD OF CAUTION ON ADDITIVES!

This is the transcript of an AA article published in Motor May 10^th 1986.

The widely-advertised oil additive Slick 50 has been soundly slammed by the AA’s Technical Services.

The AA claim that their tests show Slick 50 provides no fuel savings when it is added to a cars engine oil – and there is no evidence of any other benefits under normal operating conditions.

The AA have made no press or public announcement of their report, but have produced a leaflet for the benefit of any paid-up members who apply for one. An AA member on Motor’s staff applied for a report in the normal way.

The report states that whilst there is no evidence the product will do harm to the engine, one good point is that most of it will be very rapidly removed by the oil filter. “At about £12 per treatment”, say the AA, “it is a very expensive way of coating your oil filter element”.

The AA performed tests by taking three identical cars and carefully running them in, splitting the driving equally among their test drivers. Oils were changed at 1500 miles, the cars were run a further 500 miles to stabilise the oils’ viscosity, the cars’ tuning was carefully checked and steady speed fuel consumptions and power outputs were measured.

The report says: “The procedure is so sensitive that, for instance, leaving the headlamps of the car switched on will make a nonsense of the results due to the extra drag of the charging system”.

Engineers added Slick 50 to two of the cars in the recommended way at 3000 miles.

After a further 2000 miles, further dynamometer tests were carried out. “One car should show the sort of gradual change expected of a car in good condition” says the report, “whereas two should show a noticeable improvement . Here came the big disappointment. After our several months of careful testwork, we could not distinguish any difference between the three cars.”

The AA claimed that all cars were performing well, but performance was remarkably consistent , within a few percent.

The AA say that a detailed examination of the claims made for the product will explain what happens when Slick 50 is added to an engine. Of one gallon of petrol burnt in an engine, says the report, some 60 percent of the energy will be lost as heat from the exhaust and cooling system. That leaves 40 percent and some 25 percent is used to drive the car and its accessories. The remaining 15 percent goes to losses such as pumping air into the engine (6 percent) and some 9 percent is lost as engine friction. Of that 9 percent, 6 percent is lost in churning the oil and only 3 percent of the total input goes into the sort of “boundary” friction that a solid lubricant could affect. “If tests of Slick 50 did show a 16 percent decrease in this friction, as claimed in current advertisements”, says the report, “it would only affect the car’s overall consumption by a half of one percent”.

The AA also claim that their tests show there is no evidence that Slick 50 produces a surface layer on the engine wearing surfaces, let alone one that could last for 100,000 miles.  

On questioning John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist for 40 years about additives, I received the following reply.

Quote:

The AA report encapsulates my opinion of Slick 50, it is an expensive way of blocking your oil filter, Believe me, it does precisely nothing beneficial. It has been proven time and time again that it just blocks oil filters and oilways.

For all other “magic” additives, most are based on 1930’s technology corrosive chlorinated paraffins. (synthetic anti-seize compounds originally made 70 years ago. They are cheap, toxic and corrosive. We use them in certain types of cutting oil!) Do not touch them with somebody else’s bargepole!

UCL’s on the other hand can be useful. After all, 2-strokes in effect run entirely on UCL. So……the best UCL’s are 2-stroke oils! I always tell people to use a decent 2-stroke at 0.5% or 1%, because they are superior to the UCL’s sold as UCL’s if you get my drift. A litre of Super 2 Injector or Comp-2 will be better than a cupful of cheap mineral oil dyed red (no prizes for guessing the name) any day.

Vee engines (twins, to V8’s) benefit from UCL’s because the upper walls of the RH cylinder bank, looking from the front, always run dry. Think about it!

Unquote:

Cheers

Simon.

UCL stands for upper cylinder lubrication.

The 10w-60 is recomended for some BMW engines. However it is common practice to use a thick oil to keep the engine quiet, however unless 10w-60 is specifically recomemnded for you car by the handbook I would not go as thick as that, 10w-50 would be the limmit.

Cheers

Simon.