GATSOS OVER-READ YOUR SPEED
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URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=13363
Printed Date: 23-June-2024 at 02:45
Topic: GATSOS OVER-READ YOUR SPEED
Posted By: stephenperry
Subject: GATSOS OVER-READ YOUR SPEED
Date Posted: 10-January-2005 at 13:32
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GATSOS OVER-READ YOUR SPEEDMonday 10th January Court case could prove thousands of speeders innocent The Gatso speed cameras he has investigated over-estimated motorists' speed by up to 25 per cent because the time between the two flash photography images, which constitutes legal evidence on which prosecution is based, was much longer than specified. Edgar's 35-year unblemished driving record is under threat from prosecution by West Midlands police for allegedly driving 41 mph in a 30 mph zone. Wallsall-based Edgar has pleaded not guilty to the driving offence and will defend himself in the Birmingham Magistrates’ Court on Thursday 13 January 2005. After receiving his summons, Edgar became suspicious of the accuracy of the Gatso-based evidence and developed a laser aligned, optically triggered digital timer that measures to an accuracy within 1/100th of a second the time lapse between the two flashes produced by a Gatso speed camera. He became concerned about the accuracy of the Gatso speed camera when his requests for disclosure about how speed cameras are calibrated for accuracy were ignored by both the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. His requests for information sent to Gatsometer in the Netherlands and UK were also ignored, as was his formal application to Birmingham Magistrates’ Court to force disclosure. Edgar said, “I really felt they had something to hide so I decided to investigate the critical timing accuracy." Having tested the opto-digital timer on a number of Gatso speed camera sites including Newtown Birmingham, Walsall and Cannock area, Edgar soon discovered that well over 80 per cent of them were inaccurate. In particular, there were serious timing errors between the two flashes which are supposed to flash at exactly half a second (500 milliseconds) apart. Edgar's tests show the timings are anything but accurate. Typically they are 630 milliseconds apart, which changes legal evidence about how far a vehicle has travelled. In particular, it creates the illusion that a vehicle has travelled much further between flashes than it actually did -- some 25 per cent further. For instance a vehicle travelling at 35 mph would have travelled an extra 2.03 metres when the timing between the two flashes is 630 milliseconds, and that puts the vehicle in the next set of parallel line markings which are spaced two metres apart. Since these serious inaccuracies clearly affect the reliability of the actual recorded speed of a vehicle, it suggests that photographic evidence cannot be relied on by the prosecution, as reasonable doubt exists concerning the accuracy of that evidence. Having now investigated and researched the Gatso method of speed camera entrapment the police and CPS are relying on Mr Edgar said “ I have also discovered some other disturbing facts that affect the accuracy and reliability of the entire measuring system, these will be brought to the attention of the Birmingham Magistrates Court on Thursday 13 January 2005, come along it should be an interesting day in court.” Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign commented, "If Mr Edgar's claims are proven then almost everyone convicted by a Gatso speed camera will be able to apply to have their case reopened. I have spoken to Mr Edgar and his extensive research seems unequivocal." http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=9689 - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=9689 ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
Gatso-based evidence could be responsible for convicting thousands of innocent motorists, according to research by David Edgar, a retired electronics engineer and former professional inventor. Replies:
Posted By: B 7 VP
Date Posted: 10-January-2005 at 13:54
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Will be interesting to see what the Judiciary and the Lord Chancellor will try to invent to overcome the Facts.You Know it makes Sense-Dont You!! If ONLY we had a Magna carta. ------------- SAFETYFAST |
Yep-- the time comes eventually to the cr-pped on.The Bliars Slime, having NOTHING to show for 8 years of misrule, lies and Con-so must reinvent English.The people are stupid--Fool some of the people, some of the time-ALL the people some of the time-BUT-Never All the People ALL the time.So for those slime, Time is running out.Posted By: skull
Date Posted: 10-January-2005 at 18:50
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i hope we get to read what else happens ,, its like a thriller :) ------------- just a little crazy. My drive E46 M3 COUPE [MAN]CARBON BLACK GREY LEATHER H/K 19"s LED REARS S/B. |
Posted By: Rhys
Date Posted: 10-January-2005 at 19:00
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..I hope this won't be a cover up, where things get bent, lost. changed just to save face and the thought of thousands of people claiming money back, and in some cases sueing for damages.. I wonder how many people have lost their licences through speeding points, and maybe their jobs because of this, even though they were within the limit.
Certainly one to keep an eye on. ------------- V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 03:50
I wouldn't say that. Ok they might have done a few things that I don't agree with but they have also done a lot of things that I do agree with. The government are not responsible for the technology involved in speed cameras. If this mans findings about gatsos turn out to be true then it just means that the governemt put their faith in a technology that wasn't as good as the manufacturers claims. Something a great many people have been guilty of over the years. Are you a member of the Conservative party? ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
B 7 VP wrote:Posted By: Nostrils
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 04:46
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I am looking forward to seeing the case result - I hope that any results would not be just for those few that he test!! ------------- Phil |
Posted By: PaulS
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 05:13
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I agree, it would be very interesting to see what actually happens! I am sure the press will get hold of this, if they don't already, and will no doubt be ready to pounce when the time arises!! Paul -------------  95 E34 530i V8 Auto Maldives Blue |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 05:42
Have they done anything at all? I am of the opinion that this government is one of the most "talky", least "walky" governments I've ever seen (and I've seen many around the world). They frequently announce "initiatives" and pledge huge chunks of money on things that either never gets spent, or gets wasted on pointless bureacracy. At least "old" Labour had a very clear idea of where they were going, even if it did render them unelectable. "New" Labour seems to be guided by the principle (and I use the term in it's broadest possible sense) of "doing whatever it takes to be seen to be doing something, even if we actually aren't." Even the Lib-Dems have policies that would entail actual things being done.
But the government is responsible for encouraging scamera partnerships, which same do nothing to improve road safety, or if I was going to be generous, have as many downsides as upsides when it comes to improving road safety.
They seem to be getting just as infected with "focus-group-itis" as new Labour -- they just aren't as good at execution. HOWEVER, this is all a little off-topic, even for this section of the forum. 
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Posted By: mell
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 05:49
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i got mail yesterday from dundee police,65 in a 50 hidden cam,gutted!! ------------- |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 05:56
I rarely try to exercise my psychic powers, but let me have a go: Option 1: Judge throws the case out of court and he pays the fine. Option 2: Judge rules he was wrongly fined, police appeal. Case goes to Supreme Court, where original judge gets overruled and he pays the fine. Leave to appeal to the law lords is refused. Option 3: Judge rules he was wrongly fined, police appeal. Case goes to Supreme Court, where original judge gets overruled. Leave to appeal to the law lords is granted. Law lords rule against the guy and he pays the fine. I can't see the government allowing our "independent" judiciary to put a crack in one of Gordon Brown's most devious and unpleasant revenue generating schemes. ------------- Ciao, Spokey 
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Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 05:57
Condolences, Mell.  ------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: B 7 VP
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 07:58
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But--Spokey, you forgot about option 4.Case goes to the European Court of Human Rights.They find for the Guilty driver , with costs against the then New/Old lab and its taken 20 years, by which time they have bankrupted the country, similar practice to present time. The gatso,s are like the loaded Dice, all in favour of the house, what a surprise .This fiasco is the same as problems in OZ last year, 250 K+ drivers were repaid the fines, and gatso,s were removed. Conservative Party?? Is this being asked under the freedom of Information Act ?? My- youre quick off the mark!!. I am in fact a lifetime member of THE Freedom party--you havent heard of it , sadly.Members pledge to fight with whatever it takes, to stop their freedom of choice being eroded, and being lied to for Political gain.In a democracy , the People allow themselves to be governed by choice and agreement, Not by dictation and growing interference, in every part of their life.This was NOT in a manifesto. Those people that think this is how our country needs to be governed,should Book their oneway tickets now.
------------- SAFETYFAST |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 09:27
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I do believe the government have done some worthwhile things since they have come into power. The reason why a lot of people think they haven't is because they pay too much attention to the rubbish printed in the newspapers. The problem with complaining about speed cameras is that you are complaining about being caught breaking the law. Whether you like it or not if you break the law you will get into trouble. The problem isn't with the speed cameras themselves, it's with idiotic speed limits are totally out of date (not referring to the 30 limit) I have heard about the Freedom party. All I would say about this is that when a lot of people talk about freedom they are only looking at it from one side. For instance a friend of mine was angered when i told him that the company I worked for were going to introduce random drug testing at work as a deterent. He said it was an infringment of my civil liberties. However is it not an infringement of my civil liberties if one of my colleagues chooses to come to work 'high' and causes an accident? This is just one example which came to mind. B7VP, the reason asked the slightly flippant coment about your political alegence is that you frequently fill your posts with material which is either blatantly political or with strongly political overtones.
------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 09:31
Such as? I'm not trying to be flippant here, I'm really interested, because in my own life, I have not seen anything that they have done, of which I approve or have thought "good idea". But perhaps I am missing things. ------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 12:22
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The fact that the economy is in relatively good shape for one. Compared to Europe and America, Britain's economy has faired really well in over tha last few years despite all the ups and downs. The pound remains strong and interest rates are low. I for one think ASBOs are a good idea, as well af Family tax credit, not to mention the impending ban on smoking in places that serve food. Also the introduction of community security wardens and banning Fox Hunting. I also don't think that the NHS is as bad as people say. OK it is never going to be as good as private care, but then how could it? They managed to deal with my mothers cancer very well and she certainly has no complaints. Crime is on the decrease, although I admit there remains a problem with behavior caused by binge drinking, but in general it is going down. Although this is not scientific, I have been a victim of crime on five occaisions, non of which have been when the present govenment have been in office. I think Tax on company cars was long overdue, although I don't think people who need a company car like reps should pay anything like as much as people who have one purely as a perk. Don't get me wrong there are some things i don't like and that I feel very strongly about, speed cameras for one, along with the misguided view that a large proportion of accidents are caused by people speeding. I was never a great supporter of the war in Iraq and I certainly don't like the way we jump when America says so. I don't think the current government are great by any stretch, but IMO they are better than the lot we had before. ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: therealmccoy
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 16:06
Are you seriously suggesting that this is an oversite on the Governments part?!?! Why can people not see that the whole system is designed to make it as hard as possible to run a car?? It's a classic "Do as I say, not as I do"... How many top policemen have been caught speeding - well over the limit?!?! The same morons that want to prosecute you for 31 in a 30?? How many times do you see Police with laser speed guns parked on double yellow lines?? (Not anymore, now they hide their cars in sideroads, so u can't see them!) How do they get away with it?? Well, the average plank waits to see what "The Sun Says". If Murdoch is after another channel or something he will praise Blair, if not he will slate him! As for the Labour comments, no other government has done more to make us less British! James P.S. This is not meant as an attack on you Peter, just my opinion... ------------- Work Harder! A Million Benefit Claimants Depend On YOU! E30 M3, The REAL McCoy! 89 M3 Now Sold 99 323i *FOR SALE* http://www.furzetech.co.uk" rel="nofollow - PC Probs?? Click here! |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 18:19
The economy is not really in good shape: Gordon Brown inherited an economy in good shape, and managed not to cock it up for about 3 or 4 years. However, I for one am bricking it, as I see the effects of taxation and spending on government bureaucracy, rather than boosting things that will actually sustain themselves. I fear that when it eventually does implode, it's going to make the boom and bust years look like a walk in the park. Employment is only high, because the civil service has swollen so much.
Ah, well, I'm fairly libertarian, you see, and I think that the idea of banning hunting is far too interfering. But that's an emotional issue, so I'll leave that alone. As a passionate non-smoker, I see the ban of smoking as another invasion into our lives. As to ASBOs, they are a tool that makes it sound like they're doing something, I personally can't see it working. And they are also indicative of the state encroaching on our lives: "do as mommy says or daddy will spank you -- except he won't because we've also made spanking illegal". I don't qualify for family tax credit (or any other blooming benefit) and the whole mechanism of getting benefits is far too complicated and there are far too many hoops and hurdles. This is great for Gordon, because he makes it difficult to get the money and he can justify a huge army of bureacrats to manage all these bits of paper.
I think the NHS sucks lemons, and it's very expensive for what we get. I think they might do a better job if they didn't have so much form-filling to contend with, and that has definitely not improved under Saint Tony. But anyway, new Labour did not invent or implement the NHS, so that isn't exactly an achievement of theirs.
I think it's unjustifiable to say that crime is on the decrease. There is no clear statistical evidence to support that assertion. It is easy to muddy those waters by not keeping a consistent measure, and just recently the government changed the way they measured crime. Every time I have been a victim of crime, it has been under this government.
I think we have too many motoring taxes already, the one that upsets me the most is my fuel card: I pay about 70p/l in duties to Gordon, then because the company gives me a fuel card, I pay tax on that tax. And I pay VAT on that tax. And I pay road tax and the roads are not being kept in shape and the money certainly isn't being spent on providing a decent alternative. But I don't have a company car...
And I agree with you on all of those!
I'm not even comparing them to the previous government in the UK, I'm comparing them to governments I've been exposed to around the world, mostly in the third world. Unless it was pretty much a dictatorship, where the people's opinion didn't matter at all, I don't think I've ever seen a government so vacuous and achievement-free. Let's look at it from your side: * ASBOs * Foxhunting ban * Community Support Officers * Banning smoking in restaurants * Alleged drop in crime * Failure to destroy the NHS * Managed the economy * A tax credit (or many, complicated ones) Hardly a stellar list of achievements after 7 years in power with a crushing majority, is it? Now consider: * Banning parents from smacking their children * More taxes * More national insurance * More bureaucracy * More bureaucrats * A prime minister who regularly takes freebies from dodgy people * A prime minister who regularly reinstates people who do things that should end their political career * A prime minister who is far more concerned with his perception in the rest of the world and with being the lapdog of Dubya, than with people and issues in the UK * And of course, the minor issue of taking us into a wholly unjustifiable war I doubt that even Alan B'stard would have gotten away with all that! Anyway -- I can't see us meeting in the middle of this one, so feel free to launch a rebuttal and have the last word, but I promise not to prolong this.  ------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 18:44
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Oh dear, I find myself agreeing with spokey...it had to happen. I dislike all these bans, hunting, smoking, smacking etc, as I see it, its just other people interfereing in someones life. Most people dont hunt ( me included ), so if you dont like it dont do it. Most people dont smoke ( I do ), so go to non smoking places. I dont know if smacking children actually achieves anything, but it acts as a deterrent on mine, and sometimes makes me feel better when I dot them ! Used correctly speed cameras could actually be a good thing, but being abused as they are just turns drivers against them. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 18:49
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I'm sorry to hear that Mell, thats a fair way over, so if you can please take advice, you could even try Gary, he cant get it cancelled but may be able to help you deal with it. I've just noticed in the local rag that a young chap has just been banned for doing 70 in a 40, thats sounds very bad on the young chaps part, but what they dont tell you is up until a couple of months ago that was a 70 limit, its a dam dual carrageway, speed limt has been lowered due to whinging villagers who buy a house on a trunk road and then decide they dont like traffic ! ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 18:58
Get yourself locked away -- quick!  ------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 11-January-2005 at 19:03
ask on http://www.traffic-answers.com - www.traffic-answers.com they were invaluable when it came to my misdemeanour 15 over is on the borderline for a standard 3-point £60 fixed penalty, if theyd clocked you at one more mph youd be staring at 6 points ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 12-January-2005 at 09:17
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Spokey, I'm not going to respond to all your comments. I doubt I would be able to change you mind so I don't see any point. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so lets leave it at that I will however respond to a coment Nigel made, of course remembering that he is a moderator so I had better tread carefully! I think that having to breath other peoples smoke interferes with my life. If smoking causes cancer then passive smoking does, end of story. You are breathing in exactly the same chemicals as if you were smoking all be it in lower concentrations. It's easy to say go somewhere else, but why should I not be able to go to my favourite restaurant without having to endure the people at the table next lighting up between every course. It's even worse if you are in the middle of a course when they are finished. I don't agree with banning smoking everywhere like in LA, but pubs and restaurants should at least have separate areas. Just to put it another way, how would you like it if I sat on the next table to you when you were out having a meal and farted for the entire time. It would make it a little bit unpleasant and I can assure you that I find the smell of cigarette smoke every bit as umpleasant. As for Fox hunting, I won't go down this track as I know it is a very contentious issue other than to say that my veiws on this are a lot deeer than just stopping people doing something because I don't happen to like it. With respect to banning smacking I don't think that most parents who chastise their children will be affected. The law is designed to children being beaten. I agree entirely with your comments on speed cameras. My final point would be that these laws are brought in because people put pressure on the government. You can gaurantee that for any view you or anyone else has there will be just as many people argueing the opposite side.
------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 12-January-2005 at 18:50
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In response to your smoking arguement Peter, why should I have to leave my favourite pub or resturant just because you've bought into the passive smoking lobby ? I hear what you say, but to be honest, if you want to clean the air up so much how come you drive around in a large engined BMW ?, would a clean little smart car be more ideal ?, or an lpg conversion etc etc. I guess its your choice to drive a large engined BMW, is it right that you should force others to breath the exhaust fumes of your choice ? Get the idea ? All in jest Peter, but I'm sure you get the point, anti smoking is just a fad, they seem to be getting bored with that now, and are starting on booze. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 04:23
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Nigel, while I appreciate the comparison between cars and smoking I do think they are different, for example I don''t have a problem with smoking outside and I wouldn't dream of driving my car into the local pub Not worth going any further with this one. We ain't gonna change each others minds so there isn't much point in flogging it.
------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: kbannon
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 04:49
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WRT smoking, Ireland introduced a ban in all enclosed workplaces (there are a few exceptions) last year. The publicans (a category many policitians fall into) predicted doom and gloom and that the country would implode in a matter of weeks. Initially a few pubs tried to ignore the ban and got an official warning and they fell into line. The publicans still whinged that they were suffering from drastically falling profits (something most people would agree were too high as drink prices had risen sharply in the last few years). Anyway, nowadays, smokers must go outside. Many pubs manage to organise a sheltered &/or heated area where people can sit whilst smoking & drinking. The only real drawback of having smoke free air in pubs is the fact that you can now smell all the farts, etc. Anyway, apparently smoking outside it is now one of the best places to socialise and indeed is the best place to pull whilst on a night out! ------------- Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 05:51
LOL ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 06:14
So, more discrimination against non-smokers. We don't get smoke breaks at work, either.
------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: kbannon
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 06:33
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spokey, you may have a case for discrimination. read http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/equality/eeregs.htm - this and then contact Ivan/Horsetan who will represent you (for a small presumably)fee. If you win, then you should donate loads of your compo to us for helping you out! ------------- Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 06:54
I agree with this, how come smokers get to take more breaks at work than me!! ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 07:15
I started to read it, but dozed off... I'll just tag along for a "virtual", I think. ------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 14:04
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[/QUOTE] I agree with this, how come smokers get to take more breaks at work than me!! [/QUOTE] Because people like you want to enforce your opinions on others and do your best to stop them enjoying a ciggy whilst they work ! Simple really. Tin hat on...awaiting response !!!! ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 14:33
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I remember once doing a gig for British American Tobacco. One of the managers had a sign saying "Thank you for smoking in this office" ------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 14:46
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I'vre spoken to my boss about any incoming ban, I will be able to smoke anywhere at work I want, whenever I want, have as many breaks as I wish as long as my work is done, I can even set my own holidays and salary level. Lovely bloke my boss, pity there arent more around like him.
------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 14:48
Let me guess, you're a self-employed schizophrenic! ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
Posted By: B 7 VP
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 15:03
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Just to bring the Gatso,s subject back in focus (after a Drag (Smoke) or 2.Mr Edgar, who was shafted by CPS- Crown Prosecution(NON) Service the Hearing was applied to be adjourned--Cos the Mire has hit the Fan.HE asked for a days hearing--they said 2 Hours!! So much Publicity++ Fleet St--now means that Bliar and the Safety slime , dont know what to say.The Court want to Fast Foward the case, Guilty-GBye, -- But-it aint gonna be like that.So await new hearing date.Does that tell YOU--what the Govt Think you will believe- anything it says?????? You Know it makes Sense !!! ------------- SAFETYFAST |
Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 17:02
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Give it another go John, preferably in some tounge I can understand. Are you saying the gentleman who has found a timing error on one or more camera(s) wanted a days hearing, and the scamera lot want it done and dusted in two hours ? When no one else is around of course, and with reporting restrictions. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: still looking
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 19:57
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If you want to smoke then go outside, they say there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker and I agree coz I am one, 12 years 30 a day then thought why! so stopped. My wife also smoked, decided to stop then 3 months later we were pregnant after 12 years of trying. As they say smoking IS bad for you but no government health warnings about driving a big car. For what its worth when Tories were in, my mortgage was 16%, nuf said coz thats what matters to us at the end of the day, also Tory said they would not increase taxes!, correct they just created a few new ones. Mark Labour through and through. P.S the two most common causes of war are politics and religon, so dont start scrapping, everyone has an opinion and an opinion is like an -----ole, everyone has one its just not nice to air it in public. ------------- Love driving my E36 EVO  Tickety Boo
http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/ - http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/ |
Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 20:12
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"If you want to smoke then go outside, they say there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker and I agree coz I am one, 12 years 30 a day then thought why! so stopped." seems a bit 'matter-of-fact', a lot of people lack the dogged determination and steely nerve require to just go "cold turkey", did you find it difficult to give up the fags? i'm a non-smoker apart from the very occasional cigar at christmas or new year ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
Posted By: spokey
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 20:15
What, both of you??? 
------------- Ciao, Spokey
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Posted By: Rhys
Date Posted: 13-January-2005 at 20:22
you are going to have one sore rear end... ------------- V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
Posted By: B 7 VP
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 08:52
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Nigel, Right first time !!!! PS-- DONT give up the weed---getting pregnant could seriously damage yer Figure (even more than it is now) ------------- SAFETYFAST |
Posted By: still looking
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 09:57
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spokey wrote:
Nice one, you would be surprised what we can get up to in Wales during these dark cold nights when the sheep are locked up, and it wasn't that painful really, just had to relax. Took a while for the figure to return though. Mark. P.S yes Stephen it was quite hard(giving up smoking that is before someone twists it) but its a mental thing, you either want to stop or not. P.P.S this was the result. http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/Rhia/ - http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/Rhia/ ------------- Love driving my E36 EVO Tickety Boo
http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/ - http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/ |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 10:10
Well said. I'm one of those really anoying reformed smokers too. ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Badger 540
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 17:17
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Blimey, the littleun' was delivered in it's own coupe???? That's progress !!! ------------- Badger540 West Midlands |
Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 19:01
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Ah reformed smokers, now it all makes sense, whilst they smoke everyone has to put up with it, when they stop everyone stops ! Strange really, genuine non smokers seem far more forgiving than converts. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: still looking
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 19:34
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Definitely Nigel, its a case of if i can then anyone can. ------------- Love driving my E36 EVO Tickety Boo
http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/ - http://photobucket.com/albums/v513/MyM3evo/ |
Posted By: Rhys
Date Posted: 14-January-2005 at 21:24
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interesting fact..
Aeroplanes that are non smoking, are less healthy than planes where smoking is allowed.. why? because the air is filtered and circulated more in a smokers plane, whereas it goes a bit stagnent in a non smokers plane (so you catch more deseases like colds etc) ------------- V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 15-January-2005 at 17:33
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You know Rhys, that is so true, and I'm not saying this as a smoker who feels he's losing all his rights. I travel a lot, and a fair few trans-Atlantic trips every year, ever since smoking was stopped on the main airlines ( there are still some left you can smoke on, but the planes tend not to have mots ), about 10 years ago, I'm always ill when I return, normally a cold or something similar. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: kbannon
Date Posted: 15-January-2005 at 18:24
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Sometimes you even get arrested on them! Actually, now that I re-read the quote, are you a drug courier? ------------- Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 15-January-2005 at 18:35
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SHHHHHH dont start rumours. Gawd I'm bound to be locked up if you start suggesting things like that, and I'm good enough at it on my own. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 15-January-2005 at 18:41
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indeed... "please don't write thing's that could land the car club in hot water, the BMW-CC will ultimately be held responsible for what is written on here."
------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
Posted By: mymanhood
Date Posted: 15-January-2005 at 19:14
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Its surly ok for some stephen...... A case of do as i say not as i do or youll get banned!!!!! Eg: As Nigel says: I'm not sure how to take your comments. I will close the topic, and remove the sticky, and thankyou for the info regardings the childs well being. I will however post anything I see fit as a member of this forum, moderator or not. ------------- Chris Skoda's Rock!! Ladas roll!! |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 17-January-2005 at 09:52
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So you stand more chance of catching a cold but less chance of dying of cancer! The problem I have with smoking is that ever since I gave up, the smell of cigarettes makes me feel sick. Also if a few more places had been smoke free or even provided smoke free areas it would have made giving up a whole lot easier.
------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: therealmccoy
Date Posted: 17-January-2005 at 14:49
Hmmm, now why does that sound familiar... ------------- Work Harder! A Million Benefit Claimants Depend On YOU! E30 M3, The REAL McCoy! 89 M3 Now Sold 99 323i *FOR SALE* http://www.furzetech.co.uk" rel="nofollow - PC Probs?? Click here! |
Posted By: kbannon
Date Posted: 24-January-2005 at 05:40
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bringing this smoking debate back to life... http://breakingnews.ie/2005/01/24/story186088.html - http://breakingnews.ie/2005/01/24/story186088.html ------------- Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
Posted By: Rhys
Date Posted: 24-January-2005 at 21:51
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There are a load of 'yellow fingered doley dropouts' that frequent a local pub I know that go to one of these pubs when they get kicked out at last orders...
Don't think they will be very happy about that (as if I'm bothered.. )
On a similar note to things getting banned in pubs, Samual Smith (John Smiths brother..) has removed all jukeboxes, tv's and games machines from it's pubs. Will be interesting to see if they go the same way as Weatherspoons. ------------- V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
Posted By: PaulS
Date Posted: 25-January-2005 at 04:52
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If it does then the cheap booze would be about the only good thing!! Paul ------------- 95 E34 530i V8 Auto Maldives Blue |
That is if you do get that!Posted By: Rhys
Date Posted: 25-January-2005 at 07:16
.may be wrong about the games machines, they will be next I feel. As for cheap booze, bitter is about £1.28, and lager is about £1.46 a pint. Unfortunatly the last time I tried the bitter it was awfull as the landlord can't keep it properly (and is not bothered either tbh). Lager isn't too bad, but could be better. Sam Smiths is an aquired taste anyway. ------------- V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
Posted By: kbannon
Date Posted: 25-January-2005 at 07:29
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WRT games machines - don't like them but as we don't really have them over here it doesn't apply. The only machine I really object to is the ATM machines (drink link machines!). They are becomming increasingly popular to have inside an Irish pub and not a good idea for obvious reasons! WRT prices - one reason the drink link machines are becomming increasingly popular here is because of the price of a pint. We have 3 'beer' rates - pint of stout, lager & cider. The price of a pint of stout in Dublin has even reached about €5 with prices averaging somewhere between €3.50 and €4.50 for stout and €4 and €5 for lager. Cider is usually the most expensive pint! Assuming an exchange rate of €1 being equal to £0.70 then you are talking about £3.50 a pint ------------- Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 25-January-2005 at 16:45
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and in a feeble attempt to get back on topic.... IAM PRESIDENT RESIGNS OVER SPEEDINGTuesday 25th January Duke of Gloucester loses licence and his post His fourth speeding offence in three years -- this time 70mph in a 60mph limit -- meant he had 12 points and an automatic ban under the totting up rule. The ban lasts six months and, as a result, he automatically lost his membership. John Maxwell, the IAM chairman, said: "The Duke's decision to resign the IAM presidency has been received with great regret by all IAM Council members, given his effective and enthusiastic presidency over 32 years. i'm saying nowt! ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
A month after he was banned for speeding under the points totting-up procedure, the Duke of Gloucester has resigned as president of the Institute of Advanced Motorists (IAM). PH reported the incident a few weeks ago (link below).Posted By: Rhys
Date Posted: 25-January-2005 at 19:59
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Oh dear, do as I say, not as I do..
I'm not saying owt either. ------------- V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped.. No BMW as yet... |
Posted By: skull
Date Posted: 26-January-2005 at 09:16
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any news of what the topic started with ? ------------- just a little crazy. My drive E46 M3 COUPE [MAN]CARBON BLACK GREY LEATHER H/K 19"s LED REARS S/B. |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 26-January-2005 at 09:52
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Yes, I am interested to here how this progresses. ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 26-January-2005 at 14:52
GATSO MAN PLANS TO FIGHT ONFriday 14th January David Edgar's legal battle against over-reading cameras rumbles on He said that since they had refused to communicate with him, he would not be attending the court hearing, which was due yesterday but, if they convicted him in his absence, he would take it to appeal. However, sources suggest that this may not be the full story, as the charge against Edgar was not, say sources, speeding but failure to disclose the driver. In other words, Edgar has received a notice of intent to prosecute (NIP) but has not responded. The Crown Prosecution Service has consequently ruled that the Gatso evidence is not relevant to the case until the matter of who was driving has been determined. Nonetheless, Edgar's statement, posted on another forum, is below: “Since launching this legal counter attack on the Gatso speed camera I have received an enormous amount of mail supporting my stand against the unfair and unjust exploitation of law abiding motorists, the Internet campaign groups have also rallied round and supported my efforts, so too have the national press and TV who have beat a path to my door for what is now becoming a very big story, I have also received a number of emails warning me of the evil empire who will do anything to protect its money grabbing scam, they were not wrong...... "As predicted the old boy network have attempted to deny my legal challenge to the accuracy of the Gatso speed camera by totally ignoring my formal request for a full day in Court, this being made last November, they have deliberately remained silent about the fact that they knew all along that they had only allowed two hours for a very technical and complex trial. "Fortunately an investigative journalist alerted me to this fact yesterday following his conversation with the Listing Office, I then immediately contacted the Listings Office and confirmed the same, I also made it clear that this was totally unacceptable and I would immediately apply for an adjournment. "Having made such a formal Application to the Birmingham Magistrates' Court yesterday afternoon I have to report that they have totally ignored the same therefore I have since written to the Court informing them that I will not be attending the Court tomorrow and warned them that if they proceed in my absence an immediate appeal will be made to the Crown Court. "Having received such an immense amount of support from the hundreds of decent people out there I felt it only right and fair to inform each and every one of them of the current situation and encourage them not to despair or give up, because I never will, this is only the beginning but I believe it will be the beginning of the end for the Gatso speed camera. "The fight will continue...." Previous story: http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9689 - http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9689 - www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9689 Forum: http://pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewtopic.php?p=37030#37030 - pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewtopic.php?p=37030#37030 ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
David Edgar, the man who intends to prove that Gatso scameras over-read and therefore help convict the innocent, has reiterated his commitment to continue the fight against what he described as 'the old boy network'. Posted By: rubberknees50
Date Posted: 31-January-2005 at 19:05
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Sympathy for any campaign against pointless Gatsos but think this will go the way of the "apple" case! The establishment can't afford to lose. IanT ------------- IanT E28 528, E23 735 
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Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 31-January-2005 at 19:16
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I'm afraid I think your correct Ian, I contacted the home office regarding phone masts being considered dangerous whilst operating at I.8 GHz when well up in the air, yet gatso's are regarded as safe, don't need planning permission etc, yet operate at 33 - 36 GHz at head height, outside schools houses etc. I received a strange call back, and just cant get any answers. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: rubberknees50
Date Posted: 31-January-2005 at 19:21
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Sadly a lot of the persecution motorists get hit with by government isn't going to change, whatever party gets in. Did have a find locally though, leaded petrol available at one garage nearby, £1.10p a litre but that hasn't changed since they took delivery a year ago. May give my fleet a treat! Oh, strange call not me this time Nigel, honest! ------------- IanT E28 528, E23 735
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Posted By: stephenperry
Date Posted: 04-March-2005 at 18:45
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http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9990 - http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9990 GATSO MAN IS CONVICTEDFriday 4th March “People’s Hero” David Edgar fails to show for court hearing Edgar, of Walsall, West Midlands, had previously been very vocal in the development of his defence against the so-called “greed cameras”, where he claims to have categorical proof that speed cameras may not be as accurate as the police claim they are. A source at Birmingham Magistrates Court stated that Edgar, who had previously had his case adjourned because of his non-attendance in January of this year, did actually come to court today. However, prior to his being called into the court, Edgar decided not to defend himself, and left before the case was heard. Edgar’s non-attendance meant the Court had to deal with the case in his absence, and returned the decision that he was guilty of failing to complete his Notice of Intended Prosecution – technically referred to as a Section 172 Offence. Edgar was fined £150 plus £300 court costs, and his driving licence was suspended until such time as it was produced to the court for an endorsement of three penalty points. Simon Tonks, a local anti-speed camera campaigner said, “This is bitterly disappointing; Mr. Edgar has let a lot of people down with his promises of proof. We were very hopeful that this case might shed some light on the speed camera schemes, as there have been fears for a long time that the implementation of speed cameras is less about road safety than it is about fining motorists.” http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9689 - http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9689 - www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9689 http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9723 - http://www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9723 - www.pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=9723 http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&t=160308 - 41 comments on this story ------------- 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
Thousands of motorists were left fuming this week as David Edgar failed to attend his own trial for a speeding offence. PistonHeads reported in January this year on the retired electronics engineer and former professional inventor, who said he intended to prove that Gatso-based evidence was responsible for convicting thousands of innocent motorists because the speed cameras he investigated over-estimated motorists' speed by up to 25 per cent. See link below for full stories.Posted By: B 7 VP
Date Posted: 05-March-2005 at 02:04
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So he wasnt charged with speeding, but failure to provide details of the Driver.Section 172 .so he wasnt going to be allowed to blast the Gatso world apart, just the drivers info.So He lost, Justice --if you call it that was seen to be done. So if all is as Edgar says, he can know publish ALL his findings--and Every driver form now on can dispute their actual speeding charge. ------------- SAFETYFAST |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 05-March-2005 at 06:03
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It strikes me that if he had any conclusive evidence to support his case he would have presented it in court. I agree with Simon Tonks, he has let a lot of people down. ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Howard
Date Posted: 21-March-2005 at 04:10
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I received the following information this morning from one of the parties involved. Please read it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi I would like to draw your attention to the following posting on your forum: URL=http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=133 63&get=last This posting reproduces a press release, originally carried on Pistonheads (who were acting in good faith). Unfortunately, the PR contains a quote falsely attributed to myself and also contains falsehoods about David Edgar and his ongoing case. The PR was clearly sent to Pistonheads by someone acting maliciously against myself and David Edgar. Pistonheads have issued an apology: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=10061 - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=10061 David Edgar has clarified the situation on his website: http://www.notsoaccurate.com - http://www.notsoaccurate.com As I'm sure you can appreciate, this matter is of some concern to both myself and David Edgar. As with Pistonheads, I'm sure the message was posted in good faith, but I hope you will act appropriately and swiftly to clarify the matter, or remove the offending posting ASAP. All the best The Real Simon Tonks ------------- 1963 700 LS 1988 635 CSi 1990 M635 CSi no longer! 2001 E38 728i Individual http://www.tyneships.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.tyneships.co.uk |
Posted By: B 7 VP
Date Posted: 21-March-2005 at 04:49
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Webmaster-Do you have absolute proof of this posters ID--OR will you be requiring ALL such communications in future, to be sent with a pre-arranged password.?? The Great support for Mr Edgar is, I am sure , still considerable but due to the events of this year, and the result of the Court hearing, the topic has now cooled. ------------- SAFETYFAST |