NOISE DRIVING ME CRAZY
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Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW 3 Series
Forum Discription: This forum will deal with any issues on the BMW 3 Series (E21, E30, E36, E46, E90, E91 & E92)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=20742
Printed Date: 02-May-2024 at 20:26
Topic: NOISE DRIVING ME CRAZY
Posted By: skanders
Subject: NOISE DRIVING ME CRAZY
Date Posted: 10-August-2005 at 18:12
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My engine has been making a lot of noise today it was low on oil and it was making that noise it would make when u first start it up from cold the tappet noise and then it would shut up and be fine well anyway it was low on oil and it was making that noise and it was quiet but then when i put in some oil which was fully synthetic 0w-40w it became louder and louder until it was annoying and embaressing as people were looking when i was in a busy street, anyway on the way home from work i got on the duel carriage way and the car was driving fine the revs were the same as always so on the carriage way it was making the same noise and after 10 mins of driving i decided to put in 3rd and really hammer it it went up to 5000 revs in 3rd and then went to 4th and 5th gear after that it seemd fine and sounded normal as it would do all the way home any ideas as to what it might be as i suspect it may return in the morning when i start it up any resolutions. Its a 1992 BMW 320I |
Replies:
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 11-August-2005 at 02:54
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Are the tappets hydraulic? If so, this noise is expected because the tappets will only adjust to the correct clearance once sufficient oil pressure has built up in them. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 11-August-2005 at 18:17
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I was thinking guys the clattering is not coming from the tappets
i dont think it seems to be the fan area its
more of a clunking clattering sound could it be the
oil filter not seating properly as it sounds like a tinny kind of noise
, or the water pump maybe ?, its really annoying and it is
intermittent and seems to get faster with the fan when u
accelerate or rev it at idle. let me know. |
Posted By: ewan.c
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 03:34
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If its a clattering, from the front, start it up, pop the bonnet and watch the belt and see if you notice it not running smoothely. Sounds similar to what I had when the water pump went, but it went downhill in a matter of miles so beware! ------------- 
|
Posted By: GavMac
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 05:13
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To be honest i would go with the water pump as well, i had a 320 for 5 years 160,000 miles on the clock when i sold it, and the water pump was the only thing to let me down very common problem on those engines, you might find the clunking you are referring to is the bearing breaking up and will probably start passing water soon (If thats is what is wrong). Take the belt off and give it a spin and listen for a grinding or growl, or even just check for play on the bearing. Gav
------------- M3 Evo |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 05:53
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Ok gents well anyway i stopped the fan and it
was still making that noise so it cant be the waterpump, I then checked
the oil filter jus in case it was rattling around in their while doing
that the oil went everywhere it went on the pulley wheels and the belt,
i then put it back in and started her up and hey presto no more noise
switched off and then on again and again no more noise maybe i solved
it somehow in a freak way anyway im gonna go to work now so i will know
for sure after travelling 25 miles.
thanks for the advice so far jus a couple of things can u tell me where the vanos is on my engine as the haynes manual dont even list it and also the timing chain. thanks. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 11:50
| Is the fan attached to the water pump on these engines then? |
Posted By: bmw325tds
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 12:28
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he fan is connected, but ny a viscous coupling, so it has a clutch that engages at a particular temparture. Just because you stopped the fan, it doesn't meant he waterpump stop - it just means the fans not engaged! I would go with waterpump too - is the fan running smoothly when it is engaged (and can you stop it at all times, in which case the fans knackered as well.) Just a quick tip - if the waterpump needs replacing, do the thermostat at the same time - it's only a tenner, and sits behind the waterpump, so renew at same time! I did this on mine, and the car now comes up to temp much quicker. ------------- Carl Ford Focus 1.8TDdi Estate Ford Focus 1.8TDdi Porsche 944 Turbo BM's gone, but maybe only temporary! |
Posted By: GavMac
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 12:43
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How did you stop the fan, did you disconnect the belt? Vanos, there isn't one on that engine. But if there was it would it would be at the front of the engine at the top where the camshaft pulleys are. Timing chain is usually covered but on the front of the engine.
Gav ------------- M3 Evo |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 12-August-2005 at 13:28
| Disconnect the belt that drives the water pump then and you should find out if it is the water pump or not that is causing the noise. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 05:55
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I think i put in the wrong oil grade the oil was low when i
checked it , it was jus under the mark I put in some cheap
halfords 0w-30w would the oil not be thick enough cause noise in
the engine. I am gonna drain it all and put in some 15w-40 oil and see what happens. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 06:18
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Yes, too thin an oil and cause the engine to be noisy, but I doubt that
it would be so noisy that is causes embarrassment! By all means change the oil if the wrong grade is in it, but if that really was the case, you would have probably damaged the engine by now. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 07:01
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But another thing the noise is intermittent , - At idle the noise only happens when it is below the 1000rpm mark about 750rpm but if i raise it to 3000rpm and let it drop it goes away - While driving the noise most of the time is constant but it can shut up after a half hour drive - |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 08:06
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Ok dudes i bought some oil exactly as it says in the manual which
is multigrade oil 20w/50 a gallon for £4.99 so here i
go am gonna totally drain it and then fill her up and see
what happens. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 13:26
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Still got the same rattleing noise but when i removed the belt
and tried it it went away upon further diags it seems to be
the oil pump making it it doesnt look damaged or anything. does it need more oil ? |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 14:37
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Sorry, but I'm getting confused. You seem to be jumping from one place to the next. So far, you've suggested the noise as being caused by the incorrect grade of oil, the water pump, the fan and now the oil pump. What have you done exactly to make you think this way? I'm not familiar with this engine so maybe its my own lack of knowledge which is causing this, but from my experience, most oil pumps tend to be driven off a gear and not a belt. Can you clarify? |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 16:15
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Well to be totally honest im not sure if it is an oil pump or
not but when i opened it to take it off oil came out
so i am assuming that it is the oil pump as at the front it
has a wheel and the belt goes around that wheel and
the noise is coming from that area. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 16:29
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lux auto your question answered follow link http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/oilpumps.htm |
Posted By: GavMac
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 17:12
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This is the oil pump setup on your car, chain driven as you can see.
Item number one on this picture is the water pump which is belt driven and the fan is attached.
This is a picture of the complete engine where you can see the water pump, oil filter housing and most other parts you have referred too. My only question would be was it the water pump you removed?
Gav ------------- M3 Evo |
skanders wrote:
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 17:46
| No mate I removed the one at the bottom under neath the alternator that is the one that was making the noise |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 13-August-2005 at 20:09
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On my engine its the one circled red in the pictures can someone tell me what this is. thanks.   |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 05:29
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Jus found out what it is and it seems to be the power steering pump. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 11:17
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Don't take this the wrong way skanders, but I would advise against
working further on your car until you understand what you are doing. You could be doing more damage than good. However, if you are feeling in a fearless mood, you can establish whether the part that you have worked on is the power steering pump by checking to see if there are pipes going to the steering rack. If so, it is the ps pump. The oil that dripped out should also be a different colour from the oil in your engine (usually red) I've never heard a worn ps pump clatter before as they usually whine, but I could be wrong. Once again, if you want to determine whether it is this unit that is cauing the noise, isolate it by removing the belt. Also, what do you mean when you say you opened the pump? Most PS pumps tend to be sealed units nowadays. I can't really make out what the unit is in the pci above. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 12:35
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Yes it is the power steering pump the noise has stopped but the fluid is low and i have to power steering. But now since putting the rad back in the car is overheating again as it did before but was fixed replaced the thermo, coupling, definately have to be an airlock. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 12:42
| if the system was not overheating prior to you removing it, then it is an airlock. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 16:29
| Yes solved that but would low power steering fluid cause an all mighty screeching noise when the revs are above 2000rpm cos that is what it is doing now but when the car is idling its ok no noise |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 16:31
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please it would be a great help if u could provide the best and
detailed info if you can as i have been at it since 10.30am
this morning and hav only stopped jus now and am extremely
stressed and upset. I dont wanna take to an engineer jus yet cos it may be really simpler |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 17:21
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If you are getting a screeching noise when you rev the engine (a
noise like wheel spinning), then it's the drive belt (either PAS and/or
alternator). It's probably worn and will need replacing. Examine the belt for cracks and wear along the sides. If the belt is OK, examine the pulleys. It's difficult to give you detailed advice because I don;t know what you are doing. You are jumping from one place to another and not updating as you go along. Tell me what you have done (from the beginning) and I'll do my best. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 17:23
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What is your current problem? Lets start form there instead. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 17:35
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Ok my current problem is that i am now getting a whining noise from the
engine, as i have explained in previous posts that i was originally
getting a rattling noise and some suggested that it was the oil
viscosity so i drained and topped up still the rattle remained took the
belt off and it went away no more rattle inspected the water pump and
it was ok decided to go for the power steering pump and took it out it
sounded a bit rattly like something was moving around in there so
popped it back in and then started the engine no more rattle but now a
whining noise as explained in the next few steps as and when and
how it happens - When it is idling below the 1000rpm mark its fine no noise - But when u step on the accelerator and up the revs it starts to make a horrible whining and screeching kind of noise when it is above 1000rpm and above - Dont think it is the belt as i have checked it and it was fine - Made sure the belt was'nt coming off or off position seemed fine. - Power steering fluid is low so i am wanting to know if this would make that horrible noise i have no power steering and turning the wheel is almost impossible if you guys want arms like arnie forget the gym come and steer my car lol - any ideas sorry for the mixed posts but i am totally stressed |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 17:53
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OK, first thing, if you are low on power steering
fluid, don't start up the engine again until you've topped it
up. You risk damaging both the pump and the rack if
you run it with insufficient fluid. Once, you have bought some fluid, top it up as necessary and then bleed it. Not sure about BMWs, but the beelding process should be the same no matter what car you drive. Leave the cap off the reservior and turn the steering wheel from lock to lock, slowly and smoothly. Do this for a couple of minutes. The heavy steering is caused by the low fluid level. Did you have this screeching problem before you removed the PAS pump? Also, although you have checked the belt condition, have you checked that it is tight enough? Screeching is usually indicative of a worn belt, end even though there aren't any cracks etc, the sides could be worn. V belts use their sides to drive the pulleys, so wear isnt always immeidately apparent. Are the sides of the belt all shiney? Whining is more indicative of a worn pump or rack, but usually pump. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 14-August-2005 at 18:40
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No i didnt have the screeching problem before i removed the pump it was
a rattling sound but it was a rattling as soon as u start the engine
and at idle but was very intermittent. - But now as mentioned it does not rattle or whine at idle but occurs when the car is revved above 1000rpm - The side of the belt is not shiny looks a bit rugged though but have checked that it is on ok and not rubbing anywhere also is it normal for the belt to get warm - And another thing which is baffling me is that the rattle has gone away if the pump was on its way out or was damaged would not the rattle jus continue on rather than shut up why would it stop when taken out and put back ? in cos i would take that the pump is whining cos of low steering fluid after reading various posts on other sites and googling this problem. - |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 15-August-2005 at 13:19
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Get some oil into the pas system and let me know how you get
on. Until you've topped up the fluid, there's not much
point in discussing anything else as you might find all
your problems cured by then. From my expereince, worn pumps tend to whine rather than clatter. The only time I have heard a pas pump clatter was when the mounting bolts had come loose. Insufficient fluid as well as air in the system can cause screeching but whether it is the belt or pump remains to be seen. Put some fluid in it and we'll take it from there. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 15-August-2005 at 14:11
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Well i gave up and hung up the bat sign and called ma dad who is way
more experienced with cars and can almost fix anything
anyway he had a look and says that it is the tensioner that has had it. The place that it goes in comes out as well as the spring i did notice that the belt was running a little wobbly but it has been working fine like this thus far. So i need a new tensioner and a new belt. The power steering is ok and has returned after filling it up any idea how much or where i can get one from. thanks. |
Posted By: GavMac
Date Posted: 15-August-2005 at 14:21
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Euro Car Parts, GSF, or BMW About £38 for tensioner and £15 - 20 for new belt.
Gav ------------- M3 Evo |
Posted By: Grubbins
Date Posted: 16-August-2005 at 06:57
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Hi Not to add to the confussion here, but quote from Skanders earlier post "I then checked the oil filter jus in case it was rattling around in their while doing that the oil went everywhere it went on the pulley wheels and the belt," Could that be causing the screaching sound? Has this all been cleaned up? ------------- 320d SE Touring (E46) |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 16-August-2005 at 12:39
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No because the oil filter is actually compressed against the top
, and from memoery has rubbers at the base and top, so there should be
no opportunity for rattling. Rattling will only occur if a
foreign object was present. Also, as the filter housing is full of oil, any noise would be suppressed by the oil. Even if rattling was to occur, I doubt it would be loud enough to turn heads. Oil on the pulleys,a although likely to cause slissping shouldn;t screech as the oil will be lubricating the two contact surfaces. Think he has sorted it anyway, the belt tensioner was worn. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 16-August-2005 at 14:11
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Yes it seems that way my dad says that one of the nuts on the tensioner was loose and thats what caused it to slip. anyway bmw want £75 for a new tensioner and £30 for a new belt way expensive but if its got to be done then i will. thanks hope i will have my car back in on the road as i miss the damn thing. jus 2 more ? would a loss of tension cause the rattling sound that i mentioned in the first place. And should the belt run completely straight on the pulleys without it wobbling or does it wobble just a little bit. cheers. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 16-August-2005 at 14:43
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No, loss of tension would not cause rattling, unless the tension loss
was a result of the tensioner coming loose, in which case yes. The belt and pulleys should be perfectly straight. There might be a very slight wobble due to the runout on the pulleys but anymore than that and the belt is too loose. To determine the correct belt tension, a rough rule of thumb is to turn the belt (at it's longest run) through 90 degrees. If you can just about achieve this, it should be tight enough, anymore than this, then the belt is too loose. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 16-August-2005 at 15:18
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Yup when he got the tensioner out the spring had come out and it wouild not not go back in and stay in. |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 17-August-2005 at 15:22
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Anyway we got a new tensioner and we put it in the vehicle but it seems although the bracket has been tightened enough its still moving a little you can move it by hand and it is shaky is this normal cos i dont seem to remember it being like this, also when the belt has been tightened it still comes off when you rev the car faster. could it be becos the bracket is moving around? or have we missed something like a part that came off and forgot to put back on a washer maybe ? please advise. |
Posted By: TRACKPIG
Date Posted: 17-August-2005 at 17:43
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why not just take it to a garage and have it fitted. i would rather pay the minimal cost than bust my ass like it seems you been doing! ------------- REMEMBER- POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT KELLY REMOULDS E30 325 Sport - Gone but not forgotten E36 M3 evo Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Piece |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 18-August-2005 at 15:18
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What do you mean when you say you can move it by hand? Have you checked that all the pulleys are lined up? |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 18-August-2005 at 15:48
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is ok situation resolved thanks to all who replied. |
Posted By: LuxAuto
Date Posted: 18-August-2005 at 18:49
| What was the problem in the end? |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 19-August-2005 at 06:27
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It was the belt that was worn and also there was a screw missing where the pwr steering |
Posted By: skanders
Date Posted: 19-August-2005 at 06:28
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the belt needed changing and their was a screw missing where the pwr steering pump goes. replaced those and it tested ok.
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