740i 1998 blown head gasket???
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Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW 7 Series
Forum Discription: This forum will deal with any issues on the BMW 7 Series (E23, E32, E38, E65, E66, E67 & E68)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=23802
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 23:38
Topic: 740i 1998 blown head gasket???
Posted By: sevenforty
Subject: 740i 1998 blown head gasket???
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 09:34
| I have a 1998 740i, recently the "check coolant" light was coming on, i topped it up every now and then (about once a month) and thought nothing of it, i took it to BMW for a MOT and they said there was a split in the expansion tank, so i paid to get this replaced, when i picked it up they said it was mis-firing and the head gasket could be on its way out, since then it is loosing water even faster (need topping up every day) and there is a smell of burning "something" not sure what it is, i have checked the oil and it doesnt seem watery, so im not sure what to do, shall i ring BMW and have a go at them saying now its loosing water faster since i took it to them, if so wont they just say its the headgasket, could it be something else? also any ideas what this will cost and a reccomended place to take it in south east london? |
Replies:
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 09:46
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any mayo in the oil filler cap?
Could it be a leaking joint, or damaged pipe? |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 09:50
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oil filler cap "looks" Ok, and so does the oil on the dipstick, thing is i took it to BMW and they would have pointed out any leaks surely?? not sure what to do, not very technical. dont want to sepnd another few hundred quid for BMW to tell me its not the headgasket..... i have noticed twice the car "judders" once when i thrashed it on the M25 and then came of the motorway and stopped at lights and it was juddering, another time was when i thrashed it of the lights then stopped to turn right and it started juddering again as if it was going to stall, turned engine off then back on and seemed fine, any ideas? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 11:43
| have you noticed any oil use at all, or trouble starting when partially cold? |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 11:49
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Havent noticed any oil use, but then again i really dont use it that much once every other day, it seems to start fine, as usual just turn the key and it starts itself, it maybe takes a second longer then usual but it has been getting colder recently.................?? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: bmw1066
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 15:32
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If you have a water loss you have a leek or blown head gasket. Don't leave it too long as you will then need new heads and giving it a good blow out is not going to do any good if it starts missing when you stop. Get you garage to do a preacher test on the cooling system. There is also a test thay can do to check if the cooling system has exhaust fumes in. sorry it don't sound to good. good luck ------------- Mark 735 se 1982 RED BARON A E23 is for life not just for x-mas BMW e34 530 v8 Sport kit Spelling always Bad |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 01-November-2005 at 15:54
Thanks 
any idea how much im loking for replacement headgasket and a preacher test? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Jimbob
Date Posted: 02-November-2005 at 04:28
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Not picking on Mark (he admits his spelling is bad!) You need a Pressure test, not a blessing. ------------- And so says Jimbob. 1981 635csi 81k miles. Will be fixed, but not by me. |
Posted By: Chas C
Date Posted: 02-November-2005 at 06:31
Second thoughts, if it is the head gasket you could do with a blessing as well... Hope it works out ok. Find out where your local independent BMW shop is and ask them for an opinion. The BMW dealer probably didn't check for any problems which were not associated to the symptoms you advised them of. ------------- 
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Jimbob wrote:Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 02-November-2005 at 08:24
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cant seem to find any local bmw specialists, im gonna phone BMW where i took it last see what they say, they have charged me for a new exspansion tank when it wasnt even that in the first place!
anyone wanna buy it as it is  ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 02-November-2005 at 12:50
|
How about this for a therory: On your old tank your rad cap may have been knackard or the overflow pipe could have been blocked. If either wern't working properly, then any excess pressure in the coolant caused by a headgasket leak may have caused the coolant tank to split as now it is about 8 years old may well have gone brittle with the constant thermal expansions / contractions over time. I assume however if the expansion tank is new the above would have also have been changed. This would mean any excess pressure, would allow the coolant to escape via the overflow pipe unhindered. If your drive it may not be obvious where the coolant has gone as it will be dumped along the road. Furthuremore the misfiring you describe, may well be caused by coolant getting onto the sparkplugs when you thrash the engine. On a hot engine this could well have evaporated/burnt off before you remove them to check. Esentially what I am saying is your old tank may have partially masked some of the blown gasket symtoms. Either way go to any garage (not nessecerryly a BMW specialist) & ask them to check for combustion products in the coolant & to pressure test the cylinders). This will tell you if & where your gasket(s) have gone. You can even buy the equipmet from a motor factor if your keen to DIY. Am I good ? or full of it ? |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 02-November-2005 at 13:01
|
very thorough response thanks
i have it booked into BMW next tuesday, they said they charge £109 per hour and they can do some sort of test which will take half an hour and they should be able to diagnose the fault and tell me what needs doing, hopefully its not the gaskets (stranger things have happened) or the very worse just one gasket as they say its £2.5k to replace both, is there any chance it could be something else and NOT a blown gasket, as i said the oil has no white deposits in and doesnt look wattery, and the engine runs still as smooth as ever, or could the gasket be split on the outer side causing the water to leak outside the engine?.....? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: omega man
Date Posted: 02-November-2005 at 19:55
it could well be the presure cap on your header tank, good luck for next tuesday.
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Posted By: Hiabboy
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 03:42
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Sounds like its time to warm the cargo up ! ------------- Profit is more reasonable than justice. |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 03:50
you are an evil man Hiab! 
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Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 08:02
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phoning 1 bmw sepcialist and they said they have never done a 740 before so wouldnt like to do it, said it should be a dealers job, just waiting on another bmw specialist to get back to me with price, does anyone know any trustworthy garages around london that will undertake this? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 13:01
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Try "Beales Wheels", Under the Arches, Albert Square. Why not try one of these mobile mechanics? I don't see why you need a BMW specialist just to test for a blown HG. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 09:09
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Have now got the car booked in on monday with my local garage (who i trust) but IS it the head gasket, filled up with petrol today and when i came back to the car there was a puddle of water there, obviously from the coolant tank, could it just be a simple leak? would the headgasket cause this? have BMW just fitted the exspansion tank wrong when they replaced it last week? any ideas??? fingers crossed as i have had 2 quotes for over £2000 for head gaskets!! ------------- 740i |
Posted By: omega man
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 12:25
as i said before, header tank CAP. good luck, the presure isent holding so will overflow from the header tank. cheap repair, sorry hiab, put the dust sheet back on the cargo.
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Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 15:23
do you think so? i hope so, what would explain the "misfiring"/judders, its only happened twice could it be as Selephant said and the coolant overflowing and contacting the sparkplugs? its clear now the water isnt going into the engine so fingers crossed you are right 
------------- 740i |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 08:37
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just got back from garage, it is the headgasket, but they seem to think it only has one headgasket? i thought being a V8 it would have 2, very confusing as if its just the one it will surely be cheaper to replace, what now? do i take it to BMW still tomorrow and get there verdict, or just book it in to have headgasket replaced, but surely it its 2 ill need to know which one?? any ideas?? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 08:47
|
Its probably a twin head monoblock type arrangement. This'll mean one gasket for the two heads. If its single, both heads off I'm afraid. If it comes down to £500 difference between a BMW job (& assoc. warranty) or an indy, on a £2500 job I'd go BMW. And get a written quote if you can! How many miles on the '40 out of interest? ------------- 
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Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 08:52
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only 104k, so the headgasket shouldnt even have gone! but not a lot that can be done, why would i need a written quote, just incase they try to charge more?
cant work it out though cos when i phoned BMW for a quote they said it depends if both gaskets had gone, i spoke to a woman first and she said about £1000-£1200 for a new headgasket, then i spoke to a guy who said depends if both have gone but if its one gasket then surely it wouldnt matter, very confusing  ........... ------------- 740i |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 09:17
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worrying more like! a woman, pricing a mans job?!? he he he!!! Seriously though it may be 2, I don't know, but you'll be having 80% of the parts off to do one head so not much more for the pair. I always get a written quote or at least estimate for a big job like that. -------------
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Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 12:57
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How much is your 740 worth ? I'd get the dealer & indy to both do quotes. You may find the indy is far cheaper & if your car is only worth say £3k (rough guess), I wouldn't want to blow £2.5k at BMW getting the head gasket(s) fixed. I've seen late 90's 735 & 740s go for £3-3.5k on ebay from dealers with warrenties, to put things in perspective. Whick way do you jump ? |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 13:18
have had a cheaper quote from BMW dealer of £2k (who said they wont do work with out testing to gaurentee its headgasket at no extra charge and they will try and keep price to minimum)and one from an indy for £2400 so ill stick with BMW, car is fully loaded with Alpina wheels and full BMW service history and ive just spent £500 getting past mot and £300 on 2 new tyres, with headgaskets fixed its worth an easy £5k + (saw a non fully loaded one with slightly more mileage and no sat nav and tv go for £5200) cant sell it as it is without saying its got headgasket problem and who will buy it then??? 
------------- 740i |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: 08-November-2005 at 05:01
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I didn't realise how economical they were to buy! Very tempting..... -------------
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Posted By: Chas C
Date Posted: 08-November-2005 at 09:36
An older 7 is the best bargain on the market, especially if you're prepared to do a bit of work on them yourself. An E32 in good condition should be cheaper to run than a fiesta if you include depreciation in your calculations because they can be had for next to nothing -------------
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Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 08-November-2005 at 12:53
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£2.8k on repair bills. £2k just to change a HG. Ouch, I've never spent anywhere near that on a whole car. You could buy 10 E23/E28s for that! It just make's you appriciate your Bargain Bangers. You can always buy SatNav from Halfords for £300 if you always getting lost on the way to work, & I never find the need to watch TV whilst driving. Tough luck mate. |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 08-November-2005 at 14:13
Yeah, and they'd all be worthless rubbish. As matey says, a 740i with head gasket probs is worth next to nothing. Spend two grand and it then has a value of about 5k. All part and parcel of running a modern car, but I wouldn't swap 100 E23's for an E38. Just a lovely car and one of the best BMW has ever made. Whilst it's being fixed at BMW, get them to replace the thermostat unit and the heater hose at the back of the heads - these are a right b*stard to get to with the heads on. ------------- |
Posted By: omega man
Date Posted: 08-November-2005 at 15:21
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yeah. only a hundred. why not a thousand. yeah while its in the workshop get them to change the car. for a mercedes.
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Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 10-November-2005 at 03:44
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Mercedes are flagging in the build quality dept as well, the number of recent Mercedes owners that are selling their cars due to unreliability is quite staggering. 3 near me, all mid range saloons as well (not sure what they are in ther Merc range though) ------------- we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner..... |
Posted By: omega man
Date Posted: 10-November-2005 at 04:54
| your right there ag, eightees bmw models are so well built that in todays standards it puts the modern cars to shame. i personaly feel theres no real difference between the two companies. the big cars of today of all makers can be picked up for peanuts. its a shame that cars have advanced so much that it takes a laptop to fix. sevenfourty, have you tried a engine recon specialist. they would or should be cheaper than a garage or bmw. as in the end bmw would have to take the head there for reconditioning, ie head skim, with new gasket. or even a secondhand engine replacment. |
Posted By: 735owner
Date Posted: 17-November-2005 at 06:09
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If its going to set you back £2k I would definitely go to the trouble ascertaining the exact fault beforehand myself as from what your descibing none of the 'professionals' have done this 100% beyond all doubt. To test for a leaking head gasket a gauge can be purchased which screws into the sparkplug hole and gives a read out of the pressure ( compression ) in the cylinder. Do this for each cylinder and if its the head then one or more cylinders will give a reading below the others. Is there any sign of overheating/Increase in water temperature ? When a head gasket 'blows', hot exhaust gasses escape and this in turn heats up the water more than normal and hence will show up on the temperature gauge. No increase in temp reduces the chances that it is a head gasket problem. Are there any signs of emulsion ? When water and oil are mixed some oil is emulsified. This will show up as a specks of white gunk very similar in appearance and consistency to mayonaise on the oil filler cap. If there are no signs of Emulsion then the water and oil are not mixing and hence this drastically reduces the chances of it being a blown gasket, I would definitely then check the compression. If the problem only occurred AFTER you had the radiator header tank replaced then I would serriously consider 'Buffoon at large' type causes, Caused by ignorant, incompetent and uncaring mechanics not doing their jobs properly. Have they messed with and or replaced all the HT ( spark plug etc ) leads correctly ? have they tugged them about or oiled them up. ( Oil/gunk on the outside of the HT leads can cause misfiring ) Hope some of this helps best of luck with it. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 17-November-2005 at 06:20
|
car is being take to BMW on Monday, they say they wont start the work or order parts until they have diagnosed the fault themselves, to be fair another BMW garage (where i got the MOT and header tank) said it may be (without checking or they would charge me) and my local garage did a test and said it was the head gasket. there is no water getting into the oil which is a good thing, i assume the crack is on the outer side of the gasket as when i do use it it just all splurts out over the road. it takes only a few minutes to get to optimal temperature which i think it has always done (cant remember but i know it was always quick at warming up) and doesnt overheat, but as soon as i stop and look under the car all the coolant has leaked out and the header tank cap is hissing and splurting a little out with steam coming from it! the garage i took it to i have used lots of times and they know me there and they did say its the headgasket so i sort of trust them, but BMW said they would check this for free next week before they start the work so we will just have to wait and see. either way i have geared myself up for the £2k bill now, not worth selling as is, theres not a lot that can be done, or is there....? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 21-November-2005 at 06:04
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Sounds very like a head gasket to me. The extra preasure can caulse many problems and leaks. Make sure they replace the radiator cap. Most people/ mechanics do not know that thse cars actually run at a computer controlled 110C (Most cars run at about 85C which is less than boiling) when the engine is under LIGHT load. This means the pressure is REQUIRED to keep the water inside the head from boiling. A loss of presure in the cooling system can caluse a headgasket to blow before the temp even increases even under light load!!!.
Great to hear you are getting your car fixed. I really do not agree with the attutude that one should not spend money on ones car. Modern cars do not really wear out they just have failures and these things can occur ant any time during their life. almost totally independent of the mileage. As soon as you start defering maintainance and swapping your car for someone elses stuff up you start to loose the benifits of running an old car!!. Remember the AA/Which etc running costs. Anybody who runs an old 740 should at least be able to run it for less than the new Fiesta cost of 30 pence per mile (15000). So as long as your car is one of the fastest most comfortable best looking cars on the road who cares if you have to spend 2000 on it!! once in a while. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 23-November-2005 at 06:31
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Got a phonecall from BMW this morning, heart sank thinking they were gonna tell me all sorts of problems with the engine, but to my surprise they told me it WASNT the head gasket!! very surprised that they were that honest, they said it was the thermostat and cam sensor that were at fault and its only gonna cost around £480 as appose to £2k so i was well chuffed! Thing is i got a BRAND NEW 325ci M sport as a courtesy car and have had it for 3 days and im loving it :-) ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Chas C
Date Posted: 23-November-2005 at 08:56
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Sounds expensive for a thermostat and a cam sensor! Enjoy that 325... you're paying for it anyway -------------
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Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 23-November-2005 at 10:48
| That £480 was probably £400 labour & £80 parts! |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 23-November-2005 at 10:51
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im not fussed either way, anything is better then £2k! ------------- 740i |
Posted By: eta.
Date Posted: 23-November-2005 at 10:55
| And the work will have a pan-European warranty. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 23-November-2005 at 10:58
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what do you mean? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: eta.
Date Posted: 24-November-2005 at 03:19
| a dealer repair is warrantied across the network, whereas, an indie repair is only warrantied by them - not much good if you had a repair done in Southampton and then it goes wrong in Huddersfield, Paris or somewhere far afield. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 25-November-2005 at 07:03
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got car back last night, £505 all in, which included new antifreeze, thermostat, cam sensor, all sorts of checks, wiring checks and tests and check of the actual block for head gasket leak, all done and dusted and im now £1500 better off as i had the £2k ready to pay! one happy bunny! thing is i havent really drove it properly yet but didnt seem as powerfull when i drove it back last night, so ill go out today and see for myself! ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 25-November-2005 at 13:53
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Hmmmm sounds to me like you have blown your headgasket on the way back |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 29-November-2005 at 06:55
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Head gasket problems do not make the car less powerfull unless it misfires!!. I now think the dealer was right.
One has to remember that these cars run very very hot due to Computer controlled thermostat. (mine runs up to 113 degrees with new thermostat). This means traditional tests (eg rev engine with rad cap off) can falsly show up as either/both bad thermostat or/and bad headgasket. As for power they probably reset the computer adaption. Or maybe the computer has to adapt to the new thermostat and cam sensor. |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 29-November-2005 at 18:11
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As Scotty in Star Trek Once said "....Och the more they complecate the plumbing, the easyier it is to stuff up the works..." I bet that £300 E23 is looking better by the minute |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 30-November-2005 at 08:35
| As for the £300 E23, I also have an E23 which i have owned for many years and I can now say that it is a better long term proposition than the E38!! will ever be. |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 30-November-2005 at 13:38
Very sorry to hear that. I had mine removed on the NHS.
E23 was an averagely okay car 27 years ago, today it's a nightmare of rust, electrical problems, corroded heads, knackered suspension, poor fuel economy and generally dogginess. I cannot for the life of me think why anybody would want one when you can buy a decent E32 for £500. Sorry, but give me an E38 anyday. ------------- |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 30-November-2005 at 14:24
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Rust? Better than most lecies: No, usually work, just a bit slower Heads: Only if you dont change Anti Freeze Suspention: Yes, but again no worse than most Fuel ? No Surprisingly good considering size&weight. Not that I'm saying an e23 is better than the later BMs of course not, but those repair bills are eyewatering, partly due to the very complex nature of the cars. My point is with all this extra complexity do you A: Get a much better car ? & B: Get a car that is a lot cheaper to run ? I suspect not. |
Posted By: Jimbob
Date Posted: 30-November-2005 at 16:46
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E23 bashing again? Dont you get bored? Oh, and I've got an E24 that's Really old - go on, have a pop, you know you want to. ------------- And so says Jimbob. 1981 635csi 81k miles. Will be fixed, but not by me. |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 01-December-2005 at 07:50
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Scenario
1 Buy e23 in very good condition £300 to £1000 pounds Spend £1000 per year on matainence you will have a car for life 2 Buy e38 £2k to £12k spend £1000 per year -- you will have to scrap it after a few years when the alloy motor overheats or the transmission fails... Your 1000 will be used up and you will be out of budget. I have one of each and the e38 is more troubblesome dispite age/lower mileage and the e38 740 uses more fuel than the old 83 735!!! |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 01-December-2005 at 12:01
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Sorry, an E23 is the four wheeled equivalent of a
black and white telly. Spending £1000 a year on an E23 is flushing good money down the toilet. Why would you scrap an E38 when the gearbox fails? A good used one is around £500. Comments like that don't stack up after advocating wasting £1000 every year keeping some hopeless relic on the roads. Of course E38's go wrong - what car doesn't? But the E38 is still one of the best cars on the roads which, with some careful maintenance (changing the auto trans oil every 30k for example), will always be a nice car - great to drive, great to look at. Jim Bob - the difference between an E23 and an E24 is that when new, the 6 Series was an object of lust. The E23 was just a big ugly saloon. Go figure! BTW I ran four of five E23's as daily hacks when they were worthless old bangers.......hang on a minute...... ------------- |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 01-December-2005 at 12:07
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I should add that I bought a 1986 735iSE Auto (last
E23) a couple of weeks ago for £50 because it had a set of BBS split rims. Took it to a local scrapyard and dumped it off then posted up about all the good bits it had - the bumpers, doors and wings were perfect for example. It's just rubbish to me but I had hoped someone would go up and strip all the good bits off. Needless to say it got crushed last week (complete) so where are these '£1000 a year' owners?  ------------- |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 01-December-2005 at 12:29
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The trouble is that all E23 spares always seem to be miles away. I was offered a E23 with full leather but i had to transport it from South coast to north Midlands. too much money. However if anyone has two ABS sensors for the rear of a E23 I'd be interested. |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 01-December-2005 at 16:38
The reason why Andy is that they want to! These cars are not just about the money that is required to do whatever they want it to do, but the enjoyment they get from doing it! When you read the magazines about mr whatever spending £4k restoring his Grandads old Allegro, most would say why, but he did it because he wanted to, and not because of the money he was hoping to make or waste! Quite a few owners actually buy this type of car and keep for years, not because it makes financial sense but because they enjoy the car, and don't compare it to a cheap e38 or 32 that they could buy. Maybe, and just maybe, some people don't like the e32 or the e38? ------------- we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner..... |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 01-December-2005 at 17:43
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Christ..................
the inference here was 'don't buy an E38 when you can have an E23 instead'. Yeah, righto - and 'no thanks'. As for people spending £4000 on an Allegro - well, some folks are born to be poor and stay that way by wasting money on rubbish and never moving up the ladder. I believe Pete has sold about £800 worth of bits from the £150 325i..............now THAT'S being smart, and I'm exactly the same. That's why I don't own an E23.
With good high mileage E38's now down to £2000, pumping money into an E23* is just a fool's game. *with the exception of an Alpina B10 or a 745i. ------------- |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 02-December-2005 at 13:13
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well to a point I agree when you look at financial outlays, but since when does financial outlay ever hinder people who own the 'older car'?
Glad Pete made use of the 325i, I would have had it, but I have no space nor the time to break them. ------------- we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner..... |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 02-December-2005 at 16:55
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Well I suppose so - it's just that an E23 isn't old
enough to be an 'old car' in my eyes. It's just a secondhand car to me I'm afraid. This year a mate and I rescued a 1966 Morris 1100 (Hiabboy will have a fit). Restored 7 years ago with all new wings and things it was passed down to the owner's son's family who ruined it - the wife reversed it into a post damaging the rear wing and one of them ran it out of oil, ruining the crank. So another £50 car later, and engine swap was done, the rear wings repaired and some paintwork done. Total cost about £350 (and a lot of hours). Not content with that, another one was bought for £100 but this, like so many 1100's was absolutely rotten - shame because it was a genuine 30'000 mile car. The answer to this came in the form of a blue 1300 Automatic the same year and colour with a very good shell but a slight engine problem (number 3 conrod had let go, smashing the block and the gearbox - the gearbox actually fell off when it was all lifted out )
So over the period of 3 months the 30'000 miler was 'reshelled' into the good body, given a £30 lick of paint down one side and roof and it's about ready to go. The thing is though, the 1100/1300, whilst hardly in the Pebble Beach league looks and feels and smells like an old car - bounding along at 55 with Hydrolastic bouncy castle suspension, geartrain whining away and all to the whiff of sixties BMC vinyl. Whilst it was as badly made and rustprone as all the other British scrap around back then it does represent a real effort to advance the motor car like Citroen did. People are genuinely glad/amused to see it on the road. You get people interviewing you. Hell, I even got a wave from a cracking bit of stuff in a Minor 1000 :-) Now THAT's what owning an old car is about! ------------- |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 03-December-2005 at 17:41
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I can see the attraction of an 1100, I must admit as I too owned and really enjoyed an Austin 1300GT I had many years back, 1 owner car and it flew.
If I can find another in 'reasonable' condition I might well 'invest' in it again! ------------- we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner..... |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 04-December-2005 at 07:50
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Few and far between now Andy. I can remember my
Dad buying one in 1984 for it's engine to go into a Mini. It was Glacier white 1969 GT (TOF 135H) with all the funky go faster GT bits. It cost £60, low mileage 2 owner car with a rusty rear heelboard (where the rear subframe bolts in). Apart from that it really was a minter with perfect panels and an unmarked interior. Over one weekend it was stripped, chopped into the three sections and taken to the dump.
Even at the time it was almost 'too good to scrap' and these days it would be well worth repairing. When I think back to all the cars in scrapyards 20 years ago - Series 1 XJ6's, quite few 2002 and E3 saloons, decent Mark 1 Escorts and of course plenty of 1100's!
The best one was Cross Keys Motor Salvage in Somerset - I can picture now the row of Jaguar Mark 11/S Type/420 saloons and one fixed head E Type (this would have been around 1981), all waiting for the crusher. ------------- |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 06-December-2005 at 06:34
|
Yearr.. I like to throw the cat into the pigeons!!
But in my opinion a post 83 (facelift) e23 735 is a much better car than most of you think. The facelift fixed most of the bad e23 things. As long as you throw away the TRX!!. My e38 740 is better but I doubt can make it live as long as my e23 did!! As for e32 well, they do not rust but everyting else falls off... |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 06-December-2005 at 13:33
|
Such as?
The E32 was a massive improvement, the first big BMW Mercedes Benz didn't laugh at. Advantages; 1.) They just never seem to need welding. 2.) They got rid of that appalling hydraulic brake booster rubbish that blighted the E23 and E28. 3.) Cruise at 100 mph without all that bloody windnoise from the screen pillars. 4.) A proper luxury car ride. The E23 was never very good at this and no amount of buffalo leather and electric goodies could disguise the fact that several humdrum French saloon cars (Renault 20, Pug 505) rode much, much better. The Jaguars were just in another league altogether. 5.) Decent aerodynamics. I never had an E23 that could even approach 30 mpg whereas the 730i I drive can just about do it on a motorway run. The E23 was (and is) a very ordinary car with no really special features, just a lot of goodies tacked on. The E32 still stands up today as a very competent car - and it's 20 years old next year. ------------- |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 09-December-2005 at 05:08
|
Hi,
Yes I do actually agree with most of you you say here. However the e23 has to be compared with other cars of its age. It took the Australians until about 95 to come out with anything better in their big cars!!! The ride does improve with modern wheels and tyres. I did have to replace a seal in the break hydrolic servo. I still think the handelling was a little better than the e32. In a few months time I will be on holiday in New Zealand where I will be driving my e23 again. Maybe my judgement will be redressed!! |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 09-December-2005 at 12:19
|
[QUOTE=Drew540i] 5.) Decent aerodynamics. I never had an E23 that could even approach 30 mpg whereas the 730i I drive can just about do it on a motorway run. I regularly get 30MPG on the Mway, 20 MPG around town. Did you drive with the handbrake on ? |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 09-December-2005 at 16:24
Wow. You must be big and strong to push an E23 along a motorway hard shoulder. That's the only way one of those things will ever do 30 mpg - stop kidding yourself! BMW OFFICIAL FIGURES: MPG at constant 56 mph = 28 mpg MPG at constant 75 mph = 23.7mpg So, how do you get 30 mpg?? Is your house on the top of a hill or something?
|
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 09-December-2005 at 16:32
|
I found the government tests as well - 21.8 mpg at
75 mph, overall 18.3 mpg, 21 mpg 'touring' consumption. Autocar had their Automatic 735i down as 17.3 mpg overall, 'What Car's' 735iA did 23.7 at 75 mph etc etc etc. These are all artifical figures too and not 'real world'. When my Dad ran one as a company car in 1983 (735iSE with the 4 speed auto) it rarely bettered 20 mpg overall. The E28 520i's struggled to do much more than 25 mpg! The only BMW to do a consistent 30 mpg was the 525e. E23 735i Automatics do not do 30mpg!! |
Posted By: eta.
Date Posted: 10-December-2005 at 06:06
| My 1985 4 speed auto 735 returns 24+ MPG on what I call my urban cycle where the 'lockup' does not kick in. On a light throttle with lockup on, she does indeed register 31 MPG on the OBC. Ordinary unleaded BTW, not sure if Superunleaded would make any difference? Does Motronic sort out best performence on fuel used? |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 10-December-2005 at 12:40
|
That's the OBC, not real world. It's about as real as
the swinging needle economy gauge. To do it properly you need to brim the tank, run it down to about a quarter, fill up again and do the maths. 525e's can show 40 mpg on the OBC (mine used to) yet in reality it wouldn't be doing anywhere near that. If BMW and Autocar say it doesn't do 30 mpg, I believe them! Their figures were very carefully worked out using scientific equipment and a new car, not one that's 20 years old with six figure mileage. Put it another way - if a new 330i does 20 mpg urban, how the hell can a 20 year old car which weighs an extra 2-300 kilos with an engine with an extra 500cc do 24mpg on urban?(answer - It doesn't) |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 10-December-2005 at 14:12
|
[QUOTE=Drew540i]That's the OBC, not real world. It's about as real as Last summer I went to Minehead & back (about 300 miles) which was about 80% M5 the rest Urban& A roads. I filled the tank & filled again upon my return home. Now at times I was doing 90MPH (not for long) & overall consumption came back at 28MPG. My E23 has 135k on the clock just for the record.
|
Posted By: eta.
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 00:50
I have tanked the car in the past and found the OBC and 'real world' consumption to be very close. The e23 is lighter than the e32 and many folks claim 22 - 30 MPG for the e32. Aerodynamics come into this equation, but will be offset by the lower weight. So, I reckon my MPG figures are there or thereabouts. BTW, I had a new 525e which was not run in and that returned 35MPG easily. |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 06:32
|
Whatever.
My date of birth is10/12/2005 and my E32 730i does 56mpg if you keep it below 120 mph. Honest. 'Don't let the facts spoil a good story'.
(So BMW, UK Govermnent and Autocar MPG figures are all nonsense??!!)
|
Posted By: Hiabboy
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 08:10
|
Sorry e23 fiends , just popped in to tell you another 745 has been rescued ,i'm going ghetto and council for a week or two cruising in it ,then the gas axe comes out . I haven't had my buffalo leather bonfire yet but its getting real close. If any of you fiends want parts and have cash instead of hard luck stories to humour me with send me a p.m. ------------- Profit is more reasonable than justice. |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 11:42
|
I wouldn't waste your time Hiab. You could offer E23
bits here for nothing and they'd still be too expensive. Why do you think I drove a running 735iSE into the scrapyard last month?? As we speak, a one owner 745i (1985) is being brought back from Germany - engine out (for an E30 Touring) and the rest is going in the crusher sometime before Xmas.
I keep offering Hiab £1000 for his (very nice) white one to do a similar conversion but he won't sell it me (yet). He says it's too nice to scrap. (E23 - too good to scrap; talk about contradiction) Another one gone, not many left to go. |
Posted By: bmw1066
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 12:25
|
This form is a wast off time people are so bitter on hear putting people and ther choice of car down all the time. I can't be bothered any more. If you can't say anething nice don't say anething at all. I thought this is was a friendly car club but it is not just a I have a better car then you and yours is S**t club. I know not all on hear are like this. But.. ------------- Mark 735 se 1982 RED BARON A E23 is for life not just for x-mas BMW e34 530 v8 Sport kit Spelling always Bad |
Posted By: the big lad
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 15:14
|
Oh dear oh dear, somebodies not very happy !!!
Anyway, on a positive note, re Head gasket?? my car had a similar sounding problem. It's an E38 740i 1995, and, fortunately before I bought it problems were occuring to the cooling system whereby the water would get VERY pressurised, which apparently is a classic headgasket sign. Indeed the AA, bless 'em stated it was such ! However after several visits to the BM dealer, they changed the rad, expan tank, water pump and just about everything else in the cooling system and the problem disappeared. Plainly there was some kind of blockage within the cooling system. Hope that helps........ ------------- 740i virgin and happy with it. Blissfully happy in France |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 17:12
Nothing to do with 'my car's better than yours'. It's just that a number of guys here have tried to help out E23 owners and for nothing. For example, Horsetan actually offered parking space for a scrap E23 yet none of the E23 bods here did anything. Hiabboy Pete is going to throw away two complete Buffalo trims because of total apathy from you lot. Christ, when I threw away a complete running 1986 735i, I even posted here where it was and asked the scrapman to put it to one side. Two mint bumpers, perfect straight panels (which could have been had for beer money), all in the crusher a couple of weeks ago. I thought you all wanted bits like this??? Trying to suggest that an E23 is actually a better car than the E32 and E38 just about caps it off really.
E23 owners seem to be in dreamland....
|
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 17:43
 Hmm Me senses Pre Christmas tensions
|
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 11-December-2005 at 17:54
|
Nothing to do with 'my car's better than yours'. It's just No one is suggesting that an E23 is better than E32/E38 it's a fact (JOKING!) All my orignal point was that the E32/E38 were top notch when new, but as the poor sod who started this topic found out, when they are a bit older (ie used cars), they cost a fortune to put right & not many people know how to because they are so complicated. As for the E23 parts, great if you were reasonly close, but how the hell am i going to cart a whole car to my house ? Most people want at least £150 to do so, so "cheap parts" suddenly become rather expensive! |
Posted By: bmw1066
Date Posted: 12-December-2005 at 05:20
|
Maby I am in dreem land, But I have no space for parts and cars it is bad enouth for 1. being 21 you must under stand that I have not the money or the space to store keep trim cars and I would have them all for parts But I can't. So don't keep having a go. And yes I do the the e32 and e38 and way better cars then a e23 I love em. But I like the shap and the stiling of the e23 pre shark. and she ows me no money 2 free mot's and onley needing a hand break cable for thet is bugger all. Sorry about the spelling and gramer must install the spell checker ------------- Mark 735 se 1982 RED BARON A E23 is for life not just for x-mas BMW e34 530 v8 Sport kit Spelling always Bad |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 12-December-2005 at 15:04
|
can we chill it guys? The thread and it's original content has been lost on all this bull.
Arguments and comments like this just creates animosity and prevents genuine 'owners and enthusiasts' from getting the info they need. It becomes very boring. Mark, the club isn't s***t in any way shape or form, however I hear what you're saying but this isn't a representation of what members are all about. Although if threads and discussions carry on in this manner owners will soon turn away. So can we knock it on the head please? |
Posted By: the big lad
Date Posted: 12-December-2005 at 16:09
|
I completely agree. I know that I'm only new to this forum so I don't mean to tell you guys how to go on - but all this aggressive and irrelevant stuff seems inapropriate. I thought it was about the cars and helping us to enjoy them?? ------------- 740i virgin and happy with it. Blissfully happy in France |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 12-December-2005 at 16:14
|
Consider it knocked on the head.
|
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 12-December-2005 at 17:34
I would considerer it "heated debate", I dont think anyone was intentionally insulted, but as its an unwinable argument that's run out of steam.......Subject Closed.
|
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 13-December-2005 at 12:20
|
Cheers all, Merry Christmas! ------------- we're the Sweeney son, and we ain't had our dinner..... |
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 14-December-2005 at 04:26
|
message for Nick (sevenforty)
So back to the original issue. We are interested the hear how your car is going ? If you ever had a head problem you would have been adding water and having recurring problems by now!! |
Posted By: M3AG
Date Posted: 14-December-2005 at 06:44
| By the sound of it, the item was resolved. It would be good to hear what the problem and/or the cure was. Hopefully he'll return. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 12:36
|
Sorry for not getting back to anyone, right, original problem was head gasket, i took it in and they charged £500 , got it back and it did the same, took it back they said there was an air lock, got it back it did the same, then they took it back and finnaly said it was the headgasket, had it for 6 weeks and i got it back yesterday along with a few other problems it came to £4100!!!!!!!! but i drove it today and it did exactly the same as what i originally took it in for, any ideas, ive given it back to them now but can i claim to get some of my money back?? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Jimbob
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 15:26
|
SOME!!!! get ALL your money back! You did not pay them the change the head gasket - you paid them to fix the original problem - which they have not done. (IMHO) ------------- And so says Jimbob. 1981 635csi 81k miles. Will be fixed, but not by me. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 15:30
|
they now have the car back, so what do i do when they phone me next week saying they have fixed it again? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Jimbob
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 16:57
|
Well, I'll tell you what I would do - but I have no legal knowledge. Ring them - explain that you now believe that the work they have most recently done was not neccessary and has not resolved the issue and you therefore will require Full reimbursment. A minumum that you should expect is a refund of the total labour bill. Then explain that you will be happy to pay a fair price to correct the actual problem, although you will of course need a fixed quote before they start. Anyone else got a view? ------------- And so says Jimbob. 1981 635csi 81k miles. Will be fixed, but not by me. |
Posted By: Drew540i
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 17:00
|
Swan Vestas?
I take it all back...........maybe the old bangers are best after all. At least you can bin them when they go badly wrong. 
Who are the garage involved? |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 17:05
|
garage is whitehouse BMW Bromley
i could say i want a refund on the labour costs, but to me it seems they dont know what they are doing, and its a case of "trial and eror" believe me if i knew it was gonna cost £4100 i wouldnt have got any of it done and sold the car as it was for a couple of grand! i could say i would be willing to pay a fair price to correct the actual problem but they dont know what the problem is, i will be seeking legal advice on this one, as you say i have paid £4100 to fix a fault that hasnt been fixed! anyone have any say/advice? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: the big lad
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 17:58
|
Hi there sevenforty, re your legal position, you need to be VERY clear about what you asked the garage to do. What I mean is, did you tell them to fix a specific problem, or, did you tell them to change the head gasket - THIS IS CRUCIAL !!! If you told them to fix a problem and they haven't, there is no contract between you both, particularly as they are the Experts !!! In all the mails about this I've lost the real initial problem you're trying to solve. Would you be kind enough to re-state it? DO NOT WORRY - they are in the wrong and if, as I assume, they are an appointed BMW dealer, it is their responsibility to fix the problem or return your car without charge. Also, they will crumble at the thought of any litigation !!! If you need any more help, contact me. BMW dealers are a pleasure to have for lunch - with a nice bottle of Chianti slurp slurp !! ------------- 740i virgin and happy with it. Blissfully happy in France |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 18:26
|
Right, OK where do we begin, it started by taking to one BMW dealer for a MOT, i mentioned that i noticed the coolant level going down (very slowly) they did the MOT and said the header tank needed replacing (split in it) at a cost of £150, so they did that then when i picked it up they said they noticed it mis-firing and it could be the headgasket, then the car started loosing coolant on a daily basis (much worse then it originally did before i got heder tank replaced) and steaming from the header tank, and a loss of power (not getting over 5000 revs) i then took it to a local small independent garage asking them to test for the head gasket, they charged me £23 and said it was the head gasket blown, so i went a head and booked it into another BMW DEALER (didnt trust the original one) saying what the problem was and that its a suspected head gasket blown, i took it in and they had it for 2 days and called me saying its all fixed, it wasnt the head gasket but the thermo-stat was faulty and cam sensor needed replacing so they replaced them and the charge was £500 so i was well happy (as i had been quoted £2000 for headgasket) anyway i got the car home and EXACTLY the same thing happened, i took it back and they had it for another 2 days and again said it was all fixed and there was an air lock in the system, so again i collected it, got it home and EXACTLY the same thing happened (do they not road test anymore) so i took it back very angry at this point (i had a free courtesy car at all times) anyway they kept it for a week or so then i got a call saying it was the head-gasket after all, and they gave me a speical price of £1600 to repair so i said OK (if thats what they said it was then it obviously needed doing) anyway a week later they text me, yes sent me an SMS text message, telling me to call them regarding my car, i called them and they said the cylinder heads were warped and had been sent of to specialtists to be looked at, they went ahead and had them skimmed (at a cost of £246 without me giving the say so) they didnt call me back for another week or so then they said one of the catalysts was blocked caused by the headgasket and was going to cost another £1200, at this point i was really angry, i said to them it seems to be a case of "trial and error" and they worked out another special price of £3600 all in (remember i had allready paid £500) i said if i had known it was going to cost £4100 i would never have got any of the work done, but anyway i said to go ahead (again it they "SAY" it needed doing then it needed doing) anyway i picked it up and drove it for quite a while last night and all seemed OK, all the power was there and seemed ok, i took it out today and gave it some reving (red lined it a few times just to make sure) got it home and the coolant was pouring out again and steaming (exactly the same as i originally took it in for) so i took it back today and they said they will consult with there manager and get back to me on monday, i have just had the cheque for £3600 cancelled so they will not be getting any money off me yet (was that a wise move, i think it was, why should they get my money if its not even fixed?) i originally took the car in on the 21st of November so it has taken them a month and a half so far and its STILL not fixed, what do you reccomend i do next? if you need anymore info let me know, i wouldnt mind getting all my money back or atleast £2-£3k!
cheers
Nick ------------- 740i |
Posted By: Selephant
Date Posted: 06-January-2006 at 20:10
|
This lot sound like a right bunch of wallys. You have cancelled your cheque for £3600, but how much have spent apart from this ? How ever much they might huf&puff don't pay them a penny! I bet you could get a complete recon engine for around £4k! Back to your problem though. If I were you I'd write to the the highest manager there. If the dealership is part of a group complain to their head office as well. Also write to BMW GB. They may exert some pressure on your behalf. Tell them you want your money back, as you are not confident that they are capable of doing the work, & give them 28 days to do so. If that fails it time to talk to a solicitor I'm afraid, or try talking to Citizens Advice or a consumer group like Which. Where I live people also contact some guy on the local BBC radio station, who rings up offending parties & embarasses them on air. Anybody like that near you ?
|
Posted By: andrewthompson
Date Posted: 07-January-2006 at 05:15
|
Hi,
1) Please unlock your cluster as below and monitor your temperature as you drive. Let everyone on this group know how it behaves. http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e38/forum.php?postid=17 40227&page=1 2) Have a chemical test done by a specialist again to check for exhaust in the water. Make sure they rev it hard during the test. This is the ONLY way you can confirm head problems on these cars!!! Sorry about the money so far. |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 07-January-2006 at 05:49
|
I have only spent £500 so far so am prepared to write that off, so what do i do, do i ring them on monday morning before they start work on the car, should i ask to speak to the manager. i thought that about the recon engine for £4k!! but i bet its not even the engine, could just be a loose hose where the other BMW garage replaced the header tank! As they have the car now should i ring them, then write? if so what do i say when i call them, as i said im prepared to right off the £500 or should i say i want that back aswell? was it a good move cancelling the cheque without tellng them? ------------- 740i |
Posted By: the big lad
Date Posted: 07-January-2006 at 06:54
|
Hi Sevenforty, IMHO: 1. do not let them do any further work !!! They have demonstrated that they don't know what they are doing. 2. Get the name of the Managing Director and or chairman of this garage and write to them highlighting your complete and utter dissatisfaction with the service provided. V. Important - on their letter at the bottom write " C.C. to BMW UK". Then send a copy to BMW UK Aftermarket Director (get his/her name). On the envelope write "Private and confidential" - this will ensure that the letter actually gets in front of the important decision makers, rather than redirected to the service manager etc. 3. The problem you are having sounds very similar to one that the previous owner of my car had. Eventually the BMW garage resolved the problem by replacing the radiator and several other components (can't remember them now, but if it's important I'll look them up). 4. The only real way to check if the headgasket has gone is to have the exhaust gases analysed, to see if there is any coolant in them. This would be standard practise and a printout should have been taken, so I would want to see a copy of this!! - if the garage is organised they will have kept a copy, if they're not then they WILL capitulate sooner or later. 5. Be prepared for a fight, do not give up or give in. BMW dealers say they are the experts so let them prove it. You will win this but you need to be organised, do everything in writing, confirm all telephone conversations in writing, keep copies of EVERYTHING. ------------- 740i virgin and happy with it. Blissfully happy in France |
Posted By: sevenforty
Date Posted: 07-January-2006 at 09:48
|
Update -
phoned them today, told them not to do any more work on the car untill i hear from there managing director, i asked for his name and said a letter will go in the post monday, in the mean time i still have there courtesy car so alls good, did i make ther right move by cancelling the cheque? a copy of the letter will be copied to BMW UK Steve Nash, Director of Aftersales at BMW (UK) i believe???? and i will be seeking legal advice on monday. sodding car, only had it since march
oh well, cheers for your help people any more advice apreciated ------------- 740i |