WTF, 60% rise???

seemingly somebody doesnt want to bother with running trackdays @ WE anymore.

And I was starting to think I could take a trip back to Ireland for the first trackday of the year! Let me use my best english: What a share of f*****g c*nts!

€200?...

well if i had to pay it i suppose i would,its a great day and sure if i was a drinker id probably spend close to that on a nite out.

sharing with another club i dont think would be good idea.

kirkistown wouldnt be too bad either.

how about doing mondello as the first track day of the year and then doing kirkistown in the latter part.

the money we would save on kirkistown could maybe bring the price of mondello down a bit.

thats my tuppence worth anyway   

Well as my bmwcc membership came up for renewel lately and as most of the meets organised with the lads here are done outside the club my only reason for considering renewing it was so i could take  the car out on the club organised trackdays.So im glad i didnt renew my membership now because mondello may well wish to make more money but they aint gonna be making it from me,feck that!

Not trying to shoot the messenger here btw killian

I guess if that's the price then we'll have to pay, surely someone (Dealer/BMW Irl) would be willing to make a contribution. We need to get our PR team on the case.

Greedy bastards nonetheless

Kirkistown is around that yes. so you would need only 30 cars to bring the car back to €100.

I think the guy from tracksillz are pretty good on prices: £80 per car and that include as many passengers and drivers you want on the car.

Isn't our economy wonderful - 60% pay hike!  KB - did they say anything about giving the wrong track last time?  I'm not looking for any kind of reimbursement; just a principle argument given the increase!

Kirkistown looks interesting, but could be done as an arrive Saturday evening, possibly dinner and drinks (not too much, mind!) followed on Sunday by the track and run home.  Are there any hostels available near there that might do a group booking?

And Im not shooting the messenger either!!

This could be a reason why Mondello's prices are up.

http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/news/news036/036.htm - http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/news/news036/036.htm

Motorsport News reports that Mr Birrane has taken the first one for himself at £150,000 less engine!

AGGGHHH CRAP!! Thats a real pain in the ****! I was fuming at the last track day when they screwed up the national/international thing. I think we should take our business elsewhere and let them know it. Outrageous increase rant rant rant... I'll drive to kirkistown from cork no problem and back down the same day, no need for a sleepover.

Tom

The price rise is extortionate.  Time to call their bluff and vote with our feet.  Rip off Republic in action.

Subject to the dates organized (as always) I have no problem in going up-d-nord for a day on the track.  Saturdays would be best.

that sounds good to me.

to the lads down the bottom of the land...

it would be a long haul to drive up tp kirkistown,drive round the track all day and then drive home.

i would recommend doing the track day on a saturday,staying b+b that night and driving home sunday.it could be a bit dangerous on the drive home(falling asleep etc.etc.) 

Belfast is a 4 to 5 hour run for me, so I'd be Saturday and sleepover, as jrafferty suggested.

However, I'd be a warier than the Antrim trip after those Dubs and Corkonians removed the poles from my tent!!! 

It was more like this on your PC that caused the poles to come loose and your tent fall down

@k.bannon

i was at lancia club meeting last week and they are interested in a shared track-day with another club, if you need more cars (i think 12 to 15 guys are interested)i can ask,even if its kirko.

tony.c. wrote: topazman wrote: It was more like this on your PC that caused the poles to come loose and your tent fall down    who and where is she...mmmmm

Shes on the "Dark Side"

   who and where is she...mmmmm

  i like dark side !

topazman wrote:  You will just have to attend a few meets/events in '06 and she might appear, last seen in Fey!'s Tent in Antrim last year

hell yeah .....CANT WAIT FOR NEXT MEET 

topazman wrote:  You will just have to attend a few meets/events in '06 and she might appear, last seen in Fey!'s Tent in Antrim last year

I WISH!

Really, I do!!!

Mondello = stones

I'd be up for the Kirks trip alright - my need for trackday fixes would overcome the dose it is to have to drive to the other end of the country to do so. But may I suggest a Saturday event if possible? Cork-Dublin Fri nite, trackday sat, then home Sunday.

Other options include Anglesea in north Wales (across on Dublin ferry & a few miles away on the other side). Pembury is another track I'll be investigating (4 miles from my gaff to Cork-Swansea ferry & then 20miles from Swansea port to Pembury). Twill be €120 for petrol alone getting up to Kirkstown, so that'd go toward the ferry costs for me.

I know Killian. I hope that the potential loss of Mondello won't impact on club membership too much, but the reality is many people joined for the trackdays. I think we should keep 1 mondello day if possible, and then 1 or 2 more elsewhere. just for circuit variety if nowt else. And cos it's depressing to think an irish car club has to be crossing borders to do a cost effective trackday. 

The sooner some mega-cash-rich entrepreneur with a penchant for track action, a side business in tarmac laying and civil construction, and who decides to buy a 3,000 acre country pile in Cork, the better!!

I think travelling overseas would be a great idea.

Kirkistown would be fine too. Would have to be a Saturday though, drive from Cork on the saturday morning, stay in a B&B, drive home with a sh!t head on sunday Looking at it though, Mondello will prob end up costing less due to petrol, accomodation etc.

I suggest have a few track days, but all in different venues. Then we see which is the best for future track days......?????

In principle, I'd say nuts to Mondello.  I don't like being ripped off, and I think that a 60% price hike is just that.

Would love to be taking in their money, though - at the new rates, with 70% of Sunday 1/2 day sessions filled, they make €582,400!  And that's just on the Sundays!  And the only thing to suffer wear and tear is the track surface!

Eamo wrote: not that im not annoyed with mondello but if we do head up the north or across the water, when you factor in petrol, ferry costs, track cost i.e. kirky will be arond €120, accomoadation food etc etc. it will cost more than mondello!!

That may be true, but if we don't vote with our feet, they won't get the message that this kind of a rise is unacceptable. 

If there was a significant improvement in facilities, service, etc. they it might be justified in some way but after the experience of being messed around with regard to the international circuit in October, this adds insult to injury.

At a minimum we should reduce the days at Mondello from 2 to 1 and have the other one at Kirky.  We should also write to Mondello to tell them that is what we are doing.

It might actually be worth doing a poll of how members feel about a weekday event too.  I suspect that they might go for it if the cost was significantly less than a weekend.

Could I also echo what Eamo said.  Its a total bummer that Mondello have increased their prices but it is just a sad fact of life here in the ROI.....everything is going up.

But its a good point that the costs of the alternatives may work out more expensive than the increased price of mondello itself.  What was it last time, €135 per driver or something?  I know my car will suck up at least €100 in juice with the additional travel and thats before accomodation etc Also you have to figure that a number of people will be just as turned off by having to travel that extra distance as might be turned off by the mondello price increase.

Its worth thinking about before ditching the idea entirely. 

Also, looking at the track on the web, I have to say that mondello (while no nurburgring) looks far more interesting (in international guise at least) than Kirkistown and if we have to travel I would certainly prefer to make it really worthwhile, such as Kins idea of taking a group to Silverstone.

Mick

I'm on for it, dates permitting etc Kin.  Looked like great craic you lads had there last time.  I'm also booking the 3 day BMW international drivers training at the ring in August in the next week or so.  

Mick

Incidentally the BMW event at the ring in August is starting to look like fantastic value @ €990 when you consider the schedule includes 3 full days, 2 dinners, drift and skid pan practice, and is on one of the holys grails of motoring which is 13 miles of track!  Oh and you get to crash an E90 into a crash barrier to demonstrate emergency braking techniques!!  I suppose that puts one morning on a 2 mile track for €200 into perspective.

Silverstone is deffo a track to stretch the legs - we were hitting 140 - 150mph 4 up in the E60 M5. Giles of Branded Untouchable was getting 120mph+ in his E36 325i saloon (albeit shrick-cammed, and serious exit speed onto back straight) so 130mph is perfectly possible in an E36 M3. Which is cool! Twas circa stg£220-250 for that day, but it is a full day.

Was checking Mondello alternatives there - Dunno how much Pembury is for the track, but tis €215 to leave on a Thurs/Fri & back by Monday on Cork-Swansea ferries. Only 25miles return trip from my house to ferry to Pembury so miniscule petrol costs.

It's 290miles approx from my house to Kirkstown directly, so 580 miles return trip = €100 to €110 in petrol. I've free accomadation in Dublin so would do Dub-track-Dub on the Saturday. Tis ALOT of driving though.

Compared against them, Mondello is 260 miles round trip = €46 on petrol. So if Kirkstown is €60 less than the national Mondello circuit to do, tis working out the same money for me, and less driving.

Kin I reckon my contis have one more track day in them and they're fried although with the roads being slippy atm they might not even last that long :)

Mick

Hmmm, all good news here so, to echo all the lads comments on the trip up North etc, we will spend more than if we went to mondello, stg diff etc, 2 nights on the batter, and it will be no matter how much we say we won't !, motion lotion up/down, € 100 ish on track juice, o/n accom ............etc etc.... Thats a disgrace in Mondello but what can you do, I'm not condoning it for a second but if its €200 its €200, just give everybody plenty of notice and put a pay by visa now option on the homepage if its possible and at least then by the time the day comes the pain will be less !

Anyway how will I tow my bimmer back from the North !!!!

I'm up for a Mondello track day if you want to make up more numbers ( I know its not a BM but i used to have one if that counts !!).. I am sure i could get some of the NI-BMW lot interested as well....I am planning on doing as many as i can this year...Got the bug last year at Kirk need to feed the habit :)

Phil

Richie wrote: I'm gonna save my money and do one of these... http://www.goliathres.com/res_web_directory.asp?supplierCode=rck100&activityId=6 - M3 Experience http://www.goliathres.com/res_web_directory.asp?supplierCode=rck100&activityId=22 - Skid Car

I can't do them - I'm over the height and weight restrictions!

Eamo - isn't the insurance in the event that someone gets injured; nothing to do with the cars.  I may be wrong, though.

Nigel - personally, I didn't feel there were too many the last time; at least not in the low power group.

Oh my god i don't mind the move to Kirk but was really looking forward to my first track day with my beamer . But i've alot of holiday commitments this year so would rather the Mondello option less expense for accom and the like... Where is this Kirk place?

Jesus that's a drive and a half. Mind you i do love driving but thats one heck of a haul.

If the cost has gone up to such an extent,how much would people be prepared to pay?

Then how many are needed to cover this cost

Has the club got enough members who are genuinely interested and if they are then payment up front with no refunds is the only way

I would love to go uot with you guys but because I drive a Subaru I cannot....so perhaps a few selected "others" could be a possible solution to this hurdle

Just one possible solution  ...

Saying Kirkiston is near Newtownards makes the journey look long.

You take a ferry across the mouth of Strangford Lough and I think it is only a few miles from landing point. No need to go anywhere near Belfast.

TJ your comment about the track interested Entrepeneur is good but unfortunately that is what Martin Birrane is and he is the one raising the prices. Entrpeneurs like making money!

I have no problems with the National track in Mondello if the price is OK

I'm less concerned about cost than I am about numbers - the open days in Mondello are jointed, and you get all sorts.

My preference to BMWclub days are that the numbers aren't mental, and generally there is a better discipline amongst drivers. The last trackday held, there were no issues about numbers - I felt it was pretty full for the national circuit. And despite this, it flowed well with no mentalists (the notable exception being sheep guy  ).

I know Porsche leave non-Porsche drivers out if they're members, due to the low Porsche numbers heading out and the need to break even.  But we don't have the numbers issue so that removes the need. (Also, non-BMWs means BMWclub withdraw their 3rd pty insurance don't they?)

In terms of cost - yeah it is a complete farce that they are upping the price by that much. But compare it with the options: as an all-in package it is still competitive compared with travelling to Kirkstown or the UK. Will there be as many non-drivers at the day if they have to drive up the country? One success from the club days in Mondello is the people who've attended, seen the quality of the day, perhaps got a passenger spin, caught the bug, and have got involved themselves either by buying a BMW, joining the club, or even taking part in the following BDD. Newbies mightn't travel up the north to do this, so we'd be losing fresh membership.

I'll still support Mondello if we continue with them for 06. I will also do a mid-week trackday if it's happening. I'm all for other tracks, but as an accessible club event, unfortunately Mondello still holds the aces.

The only problem I see mid-week is taking the day off - wouldn't usually be an issue for me (at least not after March 26th - NO days off 'til then), but for people working factory/sales jobs, it's taking a holiday day.

The VAT is at UK rates, isn't it?  Can the club claim it back, or can it get exempted?

@ €8,000 - 50 people - €160 - + VAT

@ €5,000 - 30 people - €167 - + VAT

If we got 20 passengers at €30 each, they'd reduce to €148 and €147 + VAT.

If we got 30 passengers at €25 each, they'd reduce to €145 and €142 + VAT.

It takes 4hours and 10 minutes to get from Galway to Belfast Port without speeding, for anyone trying to figure out their distances.  That time is going through Enniskillen, but going via Monaghan is about the same, just not as good a road.

How long from Belfast to Kirkistown?

Fey! wrote: It takes 4hours and 10 minutes to get from Galway to Belfast Port without speeding, for anyone trying to figure out their distances.  That time is going through Enniskillen, but going via Monaghan is about the same, just not as good a road. How long from Belfast to Kirkistown?

no need to go all the way up, you just cut accross with the ferry and then it's a 5mils drive. It's about 2hrs from dublin, 3 from athlone I think.

Having spent many years on the MG car club commette and running race meetings in Mondello park its not suprising that they keep pushing up the prices. I have said it many times (sa have others) we need anothr circut in the country. Until then, (if ever it happens) we should make a point of taking track day businees else where. Its track days and the racing school that keeps the place going. I would be very interested in crossing the pond for a track day in the E21.

Cheers

Mick

How much land would you need for a decent track?

We could always form a conglomerate, build one, and just rent out to clubs!  Incorporate a rolling road into it, and you could have a nice wee business!

with the crazy land prices in ireland it's hard!

the best solution is an old airfield, give you some infrastructure to start with

It'd cost alot!

So rolling road.... And the circuit(s) must be on hilly ground too - it'll increase the cost of construction, but ya need something with blind brows & compressions and some off-camber stuff - a roller coaster in other words!

And a few possible permutations of loop available, culminating in the 5 mile "fainne mion" (mini-'Ring )

Oh and a mile long straight in there somewhere for qtr mile events and general high speed fun.

And 98 octane Petrol available on site, aswell as car wash.

A camping area with basic facilities and an offy for flagins of cider would be a bonus for the annual 24heure De E30 race that'd be held, now that I think of it.

what else....

I went scouring maps a few years ago looking for airfields.. turned out there was once a landing area in L.A. in the 40s (Lower Aghada for those not in the know of the Cork Harbour area). But tis no more now. The main road was built through it.

Waterford has an airfield but tis still active & meant to be MAD busy the whole time.

A startling omission on my behalf! 

Of course, it's not very PC. So they'll have to be qualified mechanics too. And work in pairs, particularly when changing the oil...

"I want my washer bottle fluid nice and foamy too, girls"

Kin Mak wrote: Strippers...

to mark braking and turn in points??

Trying to organise any type of outing is a BIG pain. The only way to guarantee numbers when booking, is take say a 50% deposit from everyone that wants to go. Passengers should pay in full whatever they are going to be charged, that way the club will have a better idea on numbers closer to the day and total cost to each driver.

Well??

Ok.. I've changed my mind. I'd prefer to do the international track in mondello. I won't travel to Kirkistown.

I would also travel to modello on a week day but I think thats a bad idea because you'll get very few passengers to take a day off.

I could guarantee to bring 2 or 3 paying passengers. If everybody makes an effort to bring a few passengers then it should reduce the cost considerably.

Tom

T.J. wrote: It'd cost alot! So rolling road.... And the circuit(s) must be on hilly ground too - it'll increase the cost of construction, but ya need something with blind brows & compressions and some off-camber stuff - a roller coaster in other words! And a few possible permutations of loop available, culminating in the 5 mile "fainne mion" (mini-'Ring ) Oh and a mile long straight in there somewhere for qtr mile events and general high speed fun. And 98 octane Petrol available on site, aswell as car wash. A camping area with basic facilities and an offy for flagins of cider would be a bonus for the annual 24heure De E30 race that'd be held, now that I think of it. what else....

South side end of M50 at 5am

kbannon wrote: Even then les, you can't guarantee that you will get 50% off enough people who want to go. Many leave things till the last minute meaning that planning an event is very difficult.

It is very difficult specially when trying to collect money but sometimes one has to be firm and lay down some rules, with the high charges that may be involved if numbers are not large enough this could be one of those times.

If people were informed early enough say through email or all members sent information by post, then, if they wanted to do the track day they would make sure their deposit was paid. If the track day was put back a week or two, to accommodate for the administrative duties. Because of these new high prices this is going to involve some good forward planning.

Just a bit on getting to Kirkistown. You do not have to go near Belfast. I believe the best route is Dundalk Newry Downpatrick Strangford  (52 miles) Ferry(0.6 mile) to Portaferry and then about 7 miles to the track. The Ferry is £8.50 day return.

I think this shows that the journey is quite reasonable. So I would be on for Kirkiston in March

I really enjoyed the afternoon I did at Mondello the year before last. It certainly cleared the cobwebs off the Z3  I'd love to do another and I'm still a member but I no longer have a BMW does this mean I'd be excluded?

Cheers

Jon