Sorry for the length of this post in advance  After a six and a half hour 420 mile round trip to view a stunning looking E30 M3 today (Sun) I'm left with a tricky dilemma.

The car is just what I'm looking for, body/paint wise undamaged and unpainted. Gearbox has usual gearlever/bush issues but synchros are all good hot and cold.

Engine not the strongest (but certainly one of the better ones I've driven and most likely not helped by the s**t attached to it's exhaust manifold see below) not too tappety, has non gen Magnecour  ignition leads.

Exhaust is a noisy horrible (really horrible) Scorpion piece of s**t.

Interior cloth and immaculate (very late M tech pattern which I've never seen before)

Front brake discs are warped. And my under bonnet inspection revealed homemade brake pipes from M/Cylinder to M/Cylinder  and from M/Cylinder to ABS unit (Do these have to be replaced when the larger (728i ?) mastercylinder is fitted ?

Suspension is the Bilstein/H&R kit, I prefer the standard cars setup for the road, but this was surprisingly supple and "liveable with"

Headlamp W/W not working

4 Brand new Michelin Pilot Sport tyres.

Eleccy sunroof/windows both working perfectly.

No rust around W/screen, door jambs, number plate lights or sunroof.

Radiator not leaking

BUT...........................and I think it's a big BUT, it has no service history prior to being imported, nil, zilch,diddly squat. ( I was well aware of this before I set out on my marathon journey so I genuinely don't have an issue with the owner) 

Car was imported in 99-2000 by a specialist importer who dealt/deals mainly with the rear engined products from Stuttgart. It's first MOT gives it's mileage when brought into the country and it has the original German logbook "Farts briefly" ?  (and it still has it's KM speedo fitted) the current owner has covered less than 6000 miles in the last two years (it's done a total of 75,000 miles)

An inspection was carried out by a well respected M3 specialist before the current owner purchased the car and highlighted several non major faults which the current (mature) owner has NOT had fixed.

It has an early type (incorrect) M Tech steering wheel fitted (I'd be putting an Alpina or Momo on it anyway so not overly concerned).

The cars overall appearance (especially its interior) would tend to indicate that it's mileage is genuine.

My heart says buy it, fix the issues ie brakes, exhaust, gear lever, and minor cosmetic faults,then go out and enjoy it........................however my head says get a grip man and run a mile !!!

What do you guys think it's worth and would the lack of service history put you off buying such a car ? It's a 1991 car (215hp) so one of the last built ? and has some good extras ie the suspension kit, an alloy strut braceand an Evo 2 front spoiler. I've previously owned an F plate Evo 2 and a G plate 215hp car so I have a rough idea of whats good and whats not !

I've purposely left the asking price out to help make your estimates of it's true value unbiased/ impartial.

All views very much appreciated.

If the car is under £5.5 k , buy it , spend £800 odd quid or so to fix all the silly bits, exhaust etc, change the nasty brake lines, get a good independant to check it over then go and enjoy, Iv'e seen 'good' cars with history cost owners £000's, so , as Uwe rightly says, buy on condition, not books of easily copied german dealer stamps. Some cars can be expertly maintained by enthusiasts at home to a higher level than some dealers can afford to do with their time limits on servicing.

Phil

As long as the price is ok - agree with the above that the recent history/ inspections are more important - get the engine checked/tested for piece of mind  if you like...

I presume it was imported by Adrian Crawford by your description - i got my 1992 car from him - he is a top bloke who does not import any rubbish.  He charges top money for the cars he sells, purely because they are straight as.  If i were you i would give him a call - he may still have some info on the car.

Mine has no history.   So I paid accordingly for the car.  The car was right, and has so far (touch wood), proved me right. 

The car will have been looked after, and if it is the condition you state, that is evidence to support that.  You could buy a car with all the history in the world, it still wouldn't stop it falling apart within 5 mins.  If the car is right for you, and the price is right.....

Walter, its hard to give you an answer without knowing the price.

I would agree with what has been said re condition being as important anything else with these cars.  They just don't hold their condition (even if low mileage) unless they are carefully looked after, so I would regard what you see as the best evidence of history that there is.

However, without being too cocky, and depending on what other interest he's had for the car, I would be tempted to do the following:

Go in there and tell him it's really disappointing: you've got work to do on the brakes, the exhaust, and all the other items on the list that he has not attended to.  It's going to cost you loads of money to get the car right, and you're going to have to make an offer accordingly. 

That way, you just might be able to pick up a decent car for indecent money.  Sounds rutheless, but it depends how much the guy wants the money and how much he wants a car he doesn't use much...... 

Thanks for all your  input/views guys.

Ther car is currently on the market at ..............................£9000. Which seems over the odds in view of the exhaust, brakes, gear lever, a couple of rear bumper scuffs,  brake vent missing out of front bumper , headlamp W/W not working, incorrect steering wheel and other small problems. None of which are expensive except the exhaust.

However as a whole, the car is what I'm looking for, ie it's unpainted, has original panels, a colour I like (Diamond black) and more importantly is rust free,  I prefer cloth interiors, it also has the benefit of a good quality suspension kit and the added bonus of Alpina 8 X16 wheels (original wheels are not with the car unfortunately)

Someone posted on a thread recently about a car Wayne at German Cars has due in (a 1988 ? Evo 2 in Macau Blue with similar miles) I spoke to Wayne about his car and he thought it would be ITRO £9500.

Having owned a "leggy" on miles Evo 2 previously I don't feel the need to do it again (and the Evo would be 3 years older anyway)  even though I realise the Evo is a rarer (more sort after?) car.

M5player you are correct in thinking AC imported it and  I'd have to agree with your description of the quality of cars he imports, always good quality stuff.

So back to business. What does everyone reckon it's worth ?

Personally?

Offer £5850 and be prepared to go to £6250 if you really want it...... 

I'm a little out the loop on the prices to be honest but wht i would say having owned a 55000 mile car  - if you buy a later lower mile car you will still have to spend a fair bit of cash on things that wear out purely because they probably haven't been changed yet. Something you may not have to contend for a while with on a higher mileage car which has had all the work done. 

If it were me and I really liked the car I would- a) get a report from a specialist I trust with a quote to put it right and b) use it to haggle!!!

Thats pretty expensive.

Especially without having any history.

Or without being a ltd edition of any kind.

How do you know it hasn't had any paint?

Rags, Ref the paint,I had a Chipsaway franchise for 5 years, you learn what to look for...........................

Get a report and beat the guy over the head with it with a view to paying £7K max then ?

I've just paid £8k for mine. 1990 with 95k, UK car with recent history. It had a respray last year, non original but mint 17" wheels, Cecotto interior and everything working.

There two things to think about.

1. How long will you own it, thus when will you be selling. If 2-3 years how much will you have spent/lost? If longer it makes more sense, as you will build history.

2. What do you plan to do with/to it? It sounds like a fast road/trackcar to me, so most poeople will buy on condition and spec.

If you spend £3k plus after purchase which is quite possible you can work back to what you need to pay.

To me it's worth c£6k but no more.

There will always be another one and at £9k it would need to be ready to go with little or no further big bills.

Possibly would sell it, a guy at work wanted to buy it, when it was finished and it was completed last, week just a couple of tiny jobs left to do, i enjoy restoring cars and building them if i got/get a good price for it it will be sold. might not be your cup of tea though when you here its spec etc, but its very very nice.

Send me your email addy and i will send you a picture.

neo1 wrote: Send me your email addy and i will send you a picture.

Oh! Isn't this the finished product then?

Nah the race spec picture was what the M3 was going to look like, but decided to rebuild it as a road car to mint condition, i wanted a DTM replica originally but could'nt do it in the end, ive got all the stickers and cage and seats, and everything.

back to price

if he wants 9k and it really is only worth about in region of 6 to 6.5 k

you got a problem because he aint gonna budge in a million years in the difrence in price

for 9k theres plenty out there that would much suit you better and is in a lot better condion

sorry to you all other guys that may disagree with me .but please dont shoot the messenger.lol 

I've made an offer, but it hasn't been accepted .

Time to sit back and wait now  Patience is a virtue !

As you guys have said I can't see people beating his door down to buy at 9K.

The owner is of the opinion it's an appreciating classic, whilst I'd agree with that statement to a degree I feel it's more a case of them holding their value than actually increasing in value dramatically.

As regards the "how long I would own it" question, well I've owned two other M3's as previously mentioned. One high mileage Evo 2, ruined by a previous owner with some horrible Group N springs, rock hard Bilsteins and 17" Hartge 3 piece split rims, good to drive in the dry but a real handful in the wet !! also fitted with a nasty Scorpion exhaust system and a Griffin M/Sport tuned engine.

Two years ago I bought a good genuine 215hp G plate car off ...............................ML, I had the box rebuilt (not by them !) and put some decent pads,discs and braided lines on it and enjoyed driving it as weekend car. I was always impressed with how well it rode and handled with the totally stock suspension (in comparison with my Evo 2) but became "bored" with its lack of grunt (I've since driven 3 other cars an Evo Sport, which felt a lot quicker and more torquey, a  standard 215 hp car which had recently had its top end "refreshed" really crisp and torquey,and the J plate I drove yesterday) which was most likely the slowest of the three !!

If I could find a nice genuine car I'd most likely not let go of it.

The car I viewed yesterday ticked most of my boxes apart from the service history (which isn't the end of the world ,as you have all pointed out) and the price !!

Andy S "all good things come to those who wait"

Unfortunately patience isn't my strongest virtue................

walter,

IMO the car youve looked at is well overpriced, for £9000 you should be looking for something 'mint'. from what ive read i wouldnt pay much over 6k for it, but thats just my opinion...

it took me about 12 months to find my car and i looked at some pigs which were described as 'mint'.

the problem is that you dont see that many 'good' cars advertised anymore and you may have too wait and do a bit of travelling to find one...good luck.

One persons view of what is mint is not always agreed with by someone else