A friend of mine bought a 3 year old mini cooper from ****** ***** of ***** last September. The car came with a year extended warranty and had it's pre-sales check over (allegedly)  Drove the car home, really happy with it.

After a couple of days he noticed a small puddle of oil on his driveway where the car was parked so booked it in to have it looked at. The dealer tightened two bolts which aparrently cured the problem. It was found still to be leaking and they said the gearbox oil seal had gone and they'd need to order one in. When asked why it wasn't picked up on the inspection they said the inspection had been done thoroughly but they will re-do it. The car went back in to have the gearbox rectified. Problem sorted. (Not a seal but infact needed a new gearbox!)

The next problem reared it's head a few weeks later when the n/s headlamp adjuster failed. The interior lamp button had fallen out. Rear silencer blowing. n/s electric window sticking. The car was booked in and had all problems sorted without a hitch.

He made a complaint about the chrome flaking off the centre of the steering wheel and he was told it must have been his rings on his finger (he doesn't wear any!) and wasn't covered.

In February they agreed to rectify the chrome peeling off the steering wheel centre as it would appear to be a common problem. The airbag comes as part of the centre of the steering wheel and so was booked in to have the work done. When the car was returned, the airbag hadn't been replaced, instead the put a new steering wheel on it! Subsequently, a complaint was made about this job being done incorrectly and the constant ringing the dealer to recify the problem. He was passed from pillar to post and was always told the service manager was at lunch or in a meeting. When getting someone else to ring up for the manager, lo and behold he suddenly became available!

The car was re-booked to have the airbag done (second time lucky!) and also two electric window motors as these had failed as well (after many days of ringing up and complaining it was finally agreed) This time when the car came back, they had fitted the new airbag but the steering wheel had been replaced with a very tatty old one (the original one was immaculate) ******* ***** denied they had made this mistake and were adament the steering wheel they put on was the original before they cocked up and put the new one on! After a few hours of phonecalls and arguements, they finally admitted they'd made a mistake and the car was dropped in that evening to finish the job properly!

At the same time as the steering wheel problem, he reported a terrible humming noise coming from the engine which they checked out and coudn't find a fault but my friend said it was very clear every day he drove the car. The car was taken in again the next day for someone else to listen for the humming noise. It was diagnosed by a technician to be a faulty steering pump. The car had a new pump fitted but didn't cure the problem so said it had to be re-booked to have a new steering rack fitted! They also had to adjust the passenger window because since the new motor was fitted the window was catching on the a-pillar.

The next day when driving down the road, the a-pillar cover on the same side that was catching the window, blew off in the wind! ******* ***** are telling my friend that this is not covered under warranty and deny the faulty window had anything to do with this cover falling off even though it was catching on it.

There have been other issues surrounding this 'mini disaster' too suchas rude comments made by service staff. Forgetting to order parts. Messages not passed on etc and the bad diagnosis on several occaisions. I believe ******* ***** were bought out last October but are only just changing to ****** now, but it would appear the name is improving nothing. Anyone else had similar problems, I'd be happy to hear. I believe trading standards may be informed and I feel this case may not be isolated. Although this is all min related, they are also the BMW main dealer too, so I'd steer clear if I were you!

Regards

Mike

Mike - we don't allow dealers names to be posted in posts like this - I've starred out the names so that the thread can continue
NeRo

My advice to your friend would be to return the car to the dealer and ask for a full refund. If they object he should contact trading standards and BMW Uk. IMO the car has had sufficient go wrong with it for it not to be an unreasonable request.

Be carefull, I'm not sure how the moderators feel about people saying negative things about main dealers on here. I think the clubs connections with BMW mean that it is a bit of a touchy subject.

Peter Fenwick wrote: Be carefull, I'm not sure how the moderators feel about people saying negative things about main dealers on here. I think the clubs connections with BMW mean that it is a bit of a touchy subject.

If Mikes' story is fact based (I'm not doubting that it is, Mike), then BMW shouldn't have a problem having it aired in public when their dealer has obviously had ample opportunity to put things right and has failed to do so.

Also, seeing as they have access here in what is a public forum, then they should be able to respond with their 2 cents worth if they have a problem with it.

That's just my humble opinion, though.

to be honest ive been where you have with a lemon of a car and trading standards will most likely be full of good advice but in the end up have no teeth.

As AndyS says there is a time limit on rejecting a car and im almost certain your friend will be past this point as its something silly like 30 days. best speak to trading standards for a case analysis anyway. but i would guess the best that could come out of it is a "good deal" from the dealer to swap your car for another.

good luck

peter wrote :-  I'm not saying it shouldn't be aired, just that in the past when this has kind of thing has come up it has been quickly squashed. The Owners club can't afford to upset the dealer network.

I know what your saying peter, and it wasnt a dig at you mate and niether is this, but i dont see why things like this should be squashed, just because it upsets the dealer network, after all if i was in charge of a company such as BMW then i would want to know feed back of what people think to the products produced, and the people that sell the products made by such a company, as they can only learn from the feedback, and improve on the negative side to make such a company be the best it can be, and where better to find this from then the owners of thier products, so what are we to do then be part of a biased forum/carclub stating that BMW dealers are fantastic, cant fault a single one of them, because it upsets them, if it upset them, then its for a reason and up to them to rectify that problem.

I'm afraid your moderators have been asked/told to act in this way.

Please contact the club office !

Nigel wrote: I'm afraid your moderators have been asked/told to act in this way. Please contact the club office !

Sorry I'm a bit confused, who has asked/told the moderators to act in this way?  ... and why can't we be told on the forum? 

In these enlightened times (even HM Government has the Freedom of Information Act) it would seem a bit of a poor show if the members here were not allowed to know who is restricting this information and for what reason.

If dealers are not providing a service and are named and shamed (this is not liable if its fact) surely this is to the benefit of the members and if the dealerships want the right of reply fair enough.  That's what has made ebay one of the most successful new companies in the world - the ability of itrs members to give feedback and the right of suppliers to respond.

If I ended up buying a car from the garage above and got the same treatment and then found out this site had protected them I'd be very very upset!

I might also suggest that theoretically the site could be sued by 'me' in the same way the Police could be reasonably sued if it was found out that they had allowed a drunk driver to carry on driving who then drove on and subsequently killed someone further down the road.

Still confused.

Blimey chaps! what a can of worms I appear to have opened! Firstly, I was not aware that is wasn't good practice to name BMW dealerships but I can in a roundabout kind of way understand because its nice for us owners to be able to get a good deal and advice here and there, so was not meant to upset the apple cart.

I do however, as I'm sure most of you do, feel sorry for this guy because although he has had some firm yet fair words with them, he hasn't had the knockout punch to get them to listen to him. It's only really because his dad works as a service manager for another vehicle manufacturer and it is him that has rang the dealership on many occaisions to resolve the situation, obviously knowing what to say and who to contact, him being in the position that he is. My fear is, that had he not had any contacts within the motor trade, where would he be now?

I myself, work in a main dealer (Mercedes Benz commercials) and am totally horrified at his story. If this was one of my customers, I'd be ashamed to work there. I understand that things go wrong and it's usually down to individual dealers but surely, if BMW were to find out about this they would be just as horrified as myself, and surely, this kind of service from aforementioned dealer, cannot be aimed at just this one person, I imagine there are many more in the woodwork yet to surface?

I have had the beemer bug for years now and have had three in that time, all of which have been fantastic but I'm hearing more and more of this type of thing within the BMW network. If you do a search on the 5 series technical forum, there is a name and shame topic on there which several people have some terrifying stories of bad service, some from the same dealers. Where has the sense of pride and quality control gone? Having said that, I've been in the motor trade for over 10 years now and we can't just blame BMW dealers it's everywhere you go. Once you leave the forecourt with the keys, thats the last they want to see of you unless you are coming back for servicing or parts, perish the thought of coming back with a problem. If car manufacturers want repeat customers, they really have to pull their socks up. It's a dog eat dog world out there and quality is slipping everwhere. I cannot believe how many people I know who have bought a Ford in the last couple of years! One of which has had a Mercedes c-class coupe, a 3 series beemer (bought 3 years old second hand and it went back 3 times in a year) and a mini cooper S (sold on due to bad service from main dealer) this guy now owns a nearly new fiesta and he said the main dealer is fab and the car feels fantastic. Does this not sound any warning sirens to the luxury car manufacturers anywhere?

Anyway, off the soap box now. Just thought I'd share my views as a person who has great pride in his work and who's heart is in the motor trade but is disgusted at how customers get treated nowadays. Something needs to be done by all. It shouldn't be just about volume sales but a genuine love for the car they are selling, and the customers who buy them, a service which should continue until that car meets the crusher!

Most humble regards

Mike

I seem to remember the reasoning was one persons bad experience doesn't make a bad dealer.

Maybe the original poster could ask the dealer if they would wish to respond on the BMW car club forum.

I have no knowledge of either the dealer or the poster, I'm sure there are poor dealers, I also know there are poor customers.

We have a good service thread on here, if a dealer isn't on there, they haven't been recommended by someone who posts on here.

The club is sponsored by BMW GB, they are unlikely to be grateful to us for allowing their dealers to be openly criticised on here, with no chance of reply.

Nigel and Killian

I am a bit sorry to learn that because the site is sponsored by BMW GB it is felt that the members of the forum cannot truthfully criticise shoddy workmanship by BMW, where it exists, or in fact other suppliers of services. I would be surprised if BMW would like to be seen in such a way. It is widely recognised that it is those companies who listen and learn from mistakes that keep customers happy and profits up. BMW couldn’t produce such fantastic cars (I am honoured to be an owner of a 735 and feel privileged, ooh isn‘t Joanna Lovely nice) without such an ethos.

Absolutely agree that anyone criticised anywhere, including here, should have the right to reply.

Perhaps complaints should be somehow be addressed to a group (not necessarily moderators because I can appreciate how busy you guys are!) who would then, not vetting the complaint, copy it to the dealership and BMW GB for a response within say 3 weeks. After that time, unless resolved to each parties satisfaction, both complaint and response(s) would be posted.

Regards

Jack

[Register of interest(?)

I had a post pulled a few months ago about an engine supplier who basically didn't supply but still charged, £2+k. Only very aggressive posturing from me to them and the credit card company stopped me being ripped off. I truly hope that no-one from here has since been ripped off by them or had to go through what I did.]

Jack

You make very valid points.

I really am only a moderator, I have the power to pull your posts ( as long as your not too high up!), but thats all, I'm a nobody as far as the club is concerned.

Bracknell, and the number has been kindly posted on here, is the place to go.

I welcome your suggestion that perhaps the club should be involved, I don't fancy your chances, but the agm is coming up, fancy giving it a go ?

Nigel wrote :-   I have no knowledge of either the dealer or the poster, I'm sure there are poor dealers, I also know there are poor customers.

Can you explain a bad customer nigel ?

KBannon wrote :-   As already mentioned, one bad experience doesn't make a bad dealer.

we will never get to know will we if  we cant put the names of the garage where the bad experiance has taken place, thus getting a build up against them, there might have been twenty people on this forum that has had a bad experiance with this garage but dont know because the name has been starred out.

jack735 wrote :-  I am a bit sorry to learn that because the site is sponsored by BMW GB it is felt that the members of the forum cannot truthfully criticise shoddy workmanship by BMW, where it exists, or in fact other suppliers of services. I would be surprised if BMW would like to be seen in such a way. It is widely recognised that it is those companies who listen and learn from mistakes that keep customers happy and profits up. BMW couldn’t produce such fantastic cars (I am honoured to be an owner of a 735 and feel privileged, ooh isn‘t Joanna Lovely nice) without such an ethos.

Absolutely agree that anyone criticised anywhere, including here, should have the right to reply.

Perhaps complaints should be somehow be addressed to a group (not necessarily moderators because I can appreciate how busy you guys are!) who would then, not vetting the complaint, copy it to the dealership and BMW GB for a response within say 3 weeks. After that time, unless resolved to each parties satisfaction, both complaint and response(s) would be posted.

totally agree with you on this point

I had a post pulled a few months ago about an engine supplier who basically didn't supply but still charged, £2+k. Only very aggressive posturing from me to them and the credit card company stopped me being ripped off. I truly hope that no-one from here has since been ripped off by them or had to go through what I did.]

I also agree with this point aswell.

Jack735 wrote: I am a bit sorry to learn that because the site is sponsored by BMW GB it is felt that the members of the forum cannot truthfully criticise shoddy workmanship by BMW, where it exists, or in fact other suppliers of services. I would be surprised if BMW would like to be seen in such a way. It is widely recognised that it is those companies who listen and learn from mistakes that keep customers happy and profits up. BMW couldn’t produce such fantastic cars. Absolutely agree that anyone criticised anywhere, including here, should have the right to reply. Perhaps complaints should be somehow be addressed to a group (not necessarily moderators because I can appreciate how busy you guys are!) who would then, not vetting the complaint, copy it to the dealership and BMW GB for a response within say 3 weeks. After that time, unless resolved to each parties satisfaction, both complaint and response(s) would be posted. [Register of interest(?)

Here, here! I pretty much agree with everyones opinions on here so far. Am I to gather from general views that this club is run to 'enhance' the 'correct' views that we are supposed to hear or to let the 'public' air their 'honest' views and opinions. I might have to ponder that one before renewing my membership.

I'm all for a right to reply and would welcome any channel for this to take place. I agree that int's unfair to accuse and not be given a fair trial, but as I'm not allowed to name, the dealer responsible cannot reply? where do we go from here. Thanks for the number for BMW GB. It will go there for further investigation for sure. In the mean time, my friend is trying to sell his 'Friday afternoon car' but everytime he goes to advertise, something goes wrong with it! Ever heard of a haunted car??

Regards

Mike

P.S. I'll try and give you guys a progress report when action is taken.

Cheers Mike

Good luck, I'm on your side...honest.

jack735 wrote :-  I would say a bad customer is one who complains unreasonably.

Hi Jack this isnt a dig or anything just merely another point of view, as you know that these cars when new cost more then what some people earn in a year, and if you buy one and are plagued by endless faults then i dont think any complaint or any amout of complaining makes you a bad customer in the slightest, if i spent that sort of money on a car then i would expect it to be perfect, not a lemon.

Right with you dirtybeemer. 

When I spend a good pound I expect to get what they are selling as described.  So if I was to spend 20,000 perfect pounds on a brand new perfect car thats exactly what I would expect.  20,000 perfect pounds >>> one perfect car, as described!

Isn't a club supposed to work for its members, not its sponsors? Surely BMW UK doesn't own all the dealers- they are all independently owned. If there is poor service the dealer should be named here. Otherwise whats the point in any business offering good service if they do not get increased custom from this? The club needs to grow a backbone and stand up for itself.

I know the club may need the sponsorship but insisting that threads like this be edited has cost them my membership fee for next year.

Dave.

dirtybeemer wrote: Can you explain a bad customer nigel ?

LOL. I can have a go at that one mate

A bad customer is one who has unrealistic expectations of what is possible. Then when these unrealistic expectations are not met thet kick up a fuss. My wife has to deal with the genreal public, customers of the newspaper she works for. You would be amazed just how unreasonable some people can be. I'm sure the same goes for some customers of main dealers.

As far as I can see, the big problem with allowing people to put complaints about dealers on the site is down to the following:-

How do any of us know that the complaint is valid? that is it not just made up because of a grudge, an ex employee etc? or that the customer just had totaly unrealistic expectations. Sure you can give them the chance to respond, but unless you have total transparency, i.e the name and address of the complainant published, then it is not going to work. Otherwise it makes it too easy for people to anonymously slag off dealers with no comeback. If anything untrue is wrttten the website can be sued for libel. By making complainants give their details it will put people off making unjust statements.

Just my 2p worth

*** UPDATE ***

The dealer principal has recieved a letter of complaint for the ongoing saga. He is out of the office at the moment but will contact my friend in due course. BMW GB has also recieved a copy of the letter. Lets hope BMW can polish their tarnished reputation with this guy and spring into action. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for all your comments, it's always good to know that you in a majority when it comes down to issues suchas this one. It's made interesting reading!

Cheers chaps

Mike

540 V8 - hope it gets worked out

Peter - spot on about the bad customer.

Someone mentioned that a club should work for it's members, not it's sponsors.  That is spot on.

If the club is sponsored by BMW, and the forum is the main outlet for members views, then surely someone in BMW keeps an eye out for threads like this so that they can respond.  Or, seeing as the majority of us drive cars over 4 years old which the dealers wouldn't sell from their forecourts, are we not important enough to them, despite a lot of people here using them for parts and servicing?

I'm lucky - I find that my local dealer is very good, and I've been treated very well on my rare visits to them.  But I have had bad service from garages in the past (as I did when I bought my e39), and it is very frustrating.  The guy I was dealing with there used the line that the car I was buying was €60,000 when new, but I was getting it for €12,000 (it was a 7 year old car with 69k at that stage!), so I shouldn't complain!!!

kbannon wrote: Just to answer a few points:- the forum is public but that does not mean that the dealer is aware that the allegation is now public - should every dealer scour the internet daily just in case there is something about them? The dealer in question or any dealer is free to express their side of the story but until we can be sure that they can place their side of the story in the public domain, it will always be a one sided argument in favour of the customer. As for BMW keeping an eye out on the forum - its hard enough for the moderators to watch the flow of each thread. Surely you don't expect BMW GB to watch every thread also? I have no idea of the frequency of their visits to the site, nor do I know of any member who is a representative of BMW.

Jack735 wrote: Perhaps complaints should be somehow be addressed to a group (not necessarily moderators because I can appreciate how busy you guys are!) who would then, not vetting the complaint, copy it to the dealership and BMW GB for a response within say 3 weeks. After that time, unless resolved to each parties satisfaction, both complaint and response(s) would be posted.

Thats why I thought it would be a reasonable idea to bring 'any' complaints to their attention and give them time to respond.

If there are any dealers looking in, or anyone from BMW UK/AG, or anyone who vaguely represents anything to do with BMW, Dr. H. Panke?, please make themself known. 

We wont bite

OK, maybe just a nibble

kbannon wrote: ... the forum is public ...

Quote "The views expressed here are those of individuals and are not necessarily the views of the BMW Car Club, BMW (GB) Ltd. or BMW (AG)." Unquote

Enough said?

Maybe there should be a "Problems with Dealers Forum", with any new threads being notified by email to a club official or someone in BMWs' marketing/service departments.  That way they're getting any nmegative feedback and can take appropriate action.

Likewise, you could do the same thing with a positive slant to it - "Dealers Who Appreciate Our Custom Forum".

Or is that just a tinpot idea?

kbannon wrote: I am just protecting the forum from a potential slander accusation - thats all!

Ahum, at the risk of repeating myself -

"The views expressed here are those of individuals and are not necessarily the views of the BMW Car Club, BMW (GB) Ltd. or BMW (AG)."

So wouldn't it be the individual who is leaving themselves open to be accused of slander?

Not the Forum?

kbannon wrote: Possibly - but Im not a solicitor and not willing to be up in court against one!

It's not the solicitors you have to worry about...

...it's the Lawyers!  (They wear wigs you know - but not at the weekends)

(edited because I had the wig context wrong!)

Kbannon, you make a valid point, it is only one persons view and you have no proof that I'm being totally honest, however, the chap who has had all of this trouble has been in my company (as I work with him) 90% of the time when making phonecalls to them and I have heard that he has been polite and courteous, only getting angry once or twice but still being diplomatic about it and still, the attitude he has been given and the lies he's been told. Is it possible that several members of this dealer have targeted this one man to take the p*** out of and on several occaisions?. My reading into it is if one person can have this kind of experience with this dealer, I find it hard to believe they are 100% comitted to customer service with everyone else? Also, I'm not in the habit of making this kind of thing up, (not that I'm saying you suggest this!) especially as it's not even my car, so why do I give a damn? - because I feel my friend has been a victim of a rising trend within the motor trade of bad customer service! look at the answers on here and all of the other forum sections that say similar things.

I am all for a section where maybe members can pm a designated member (who wants this responsibility!??) who can pass comments on to BMW UK? or maybe a member of BMW UK customer service team can moniter a designated pm address for these comments. Just a thought, maybe it's about time we embraced the problems we have with dealers, get BMW GB involved and sort it out once and for all. We will all benefit. We get the service we want, BMW kep customers as do dealers. Come on BMW, it's not rocket science!!

bodger122 wrote: Just a thought, but what if the boot was on the other foot...say i had experienced some fantastic service from my BMW dealer and wanted to shout it from the hills cos im so chuffed. or i knew a dealer with a fantistic deal on a new model at the moment. Would i not be allowed to mention the said dealers name on this BMW message board? surely my virtual friends would like a slice of the action to? Feedback, be it positive or negative is not a bad thing - as long as its constructive and factual the BMW dealer network has nothing to worry about.

HERE    HERE!  It makes my blood boil too. I don't have a problem with telling the world I've had fantastic service, but maybe, with the state of some dealers at the moments, one feels this thread would be somewhat empty? Am I alone in thinking this? And yes, I very much doubt the names would be scrubbed out! Infact, I may try it out to see if thats a fact, but i'd hate to do it with fake facts, so when I next service my car, maybe I should find a dealer that doesn't disappoint me and tell you all about it!!

Anyway, regarding my pal, still no reply from the dealer principal, but I have learned from this experience, not to hold my breath! I'll let you know the result when and if there is one!

Regards

Mike

thepits wrote: kbannon wrote: I am just protecting the forum from a potential slander accusation - thats all! Ahum, at the risk of repeating myself - "The views expressed here are those of individuals and are not necessarily the views of the BMW Car Club, BMW (GB) Ltd. or BMW (AG)." So wouldn't it be the individual who is leaving themselves open to be accused of slander? Not the Forum?

Ive just been on another forum and they have a post topic of good or bad dealer, and have a simular thing to above what thepits has posted and you should see the amount of dealers that are named on there both good and bad.

Nigel wrote: Have you approached the club office yet Mike ?

As I'm not currently a member and with my er.........objective views do you think they'd listen? I'm in favour of getting what members want, not what the club wants us to want. But that said, do I have a good case!?

Killian, Nigel

I feel for you guys and appreciate the hard work you put into the forum.

I think though that even if the battle is lost here the war will continue against dealers who fail to produce, not just from forums like this but from BMW UK AND if they fail to buck the trend then Helmut will have something to say!

BMW announced record profits last year (23,300,000 Euros if I recall) and expect to do the same again year on year for the next 10.  It will not happen if ..................................

Relatively we are small fry but the more current owners become dissatisfied the more difficulty Helmut will have in attaining his goal.

Have a nice weekend, I'm off for a weeks holiday  but being really sad I'll have internet access!

Bring on the beers, have a good weekend everyone.

Jack

540 V8 wrote: Nigel wrote: Have you approached the club office yet Mike ? As I'm not currently a member and with my er.........objective views do you think they'd listen? I'm in favour of getting what members want, not what the club wants us to want. But that said, do I have a good case!?

I think a phone call wouldn't go amiss.

This has cropped up before, and the club has just returned to its adopt a dealer scheme. This scheme has only just been resurrected, so not that many dealers are covered yet.

The club "should" do what its members want, like I say weve seen this before on here, but to be honest I wouldn't image its that widespread, the last time it happened was with a dealer in Brighton, and after speaking to people on here, and going back to the dealer the whole situation was resolved.

I would definately suggest you pass a link to the thread, in an e-mail, to the dealer, pm me the dealers details, if you don't mind, I may even do it for you.

thepits wrote: So wouldn't it be the individual who is leaving themselves open to be accused of slander? Not the Forum?

No, the forum would be held accountable because they can control what is posted.

Anyway it's libel not slander. Slander is spoken, libel is written.

My wife learnt all about this as part of her journalism course.

Peter Fenwick wrote: Anyway it's libel not slander. Slander is spoken, libel is written.

Its neither libel nor slander if whats been written or said is true!

Jack735 wrote: Peter Fenwick wrote: Anyway it's libel not slander. Slander is spoken, libel is written. Its neither libel nor slander if whats been written or said is true!

True. But that has to be proven. Unless the forum admin can be sure it is true then they cannot take the risk of allowing it to be posted.

Peter Fenwick wrote: True. But that has to be proven. Unless the forum admin can be sure it is true then they cannot take the risk of allowing it to be posted.

Well said.

Enough lads - the modorators are only acting according to the forum rules, and how they have been instructed by the office and the NC.

If we have a 'gripe' against a dealer, bring it up with the office.

They've got the BMW contacts - we can only hope they use them.

Peter Fenwick wrote: Jack735 wrote: Peter Fenwick wrote: Anyway it's libel not slander. Slander is spoken, libel is written. Its neither libel nor slander if whats been written or said is true! True. But that has to be proven. Unless the forum admin can be sure it is true then they cannot take the risk of allowing it to be posted.

Good point Peter! Let me ask this question though, lets just say this was all proven beyond doubt, can the name of the dealer be un-blocked? Just a question I was pondering over.

How it can be proved? I suppose it wouldn't really happen unless it went to court. All of the records the dealer makes of when the car was booked in and what for, should be available as is the copy of the warranty paperwork that my friend took the clever move of requesting so he has got it on paper what should have been done.

Of course conversations weren't recorded so it the dealer versus the client although I do know that his dad witnessed some conversations and I overheard phonecalls so there is plenty of evidence. If the dealer still tries to squirm their way out of this one, there is something seriously wrong within the BMW empire and heads need to roll.

Just to update you aswell, the dealer principal said the other day, after receiving the letter, he would contact my friend regarding this matter. This still has not happened. He hasn't even bothered to ring this guy and say 'I am investigating the situation and will be in touch' nothing, nil, zero. After three days it's getting silly. BMW GB would have recieved the same letter the same day, but no response from them though when I spoke to my frind last, he hadn't had his mail for that day so tomorrow may be a different story. I think both the dealer and BMW UK would do well to at least let my guy know they are taking an interest in sorting this mess out. Patience is wearing thin and it may be time to contact the solicitor.

Any further developments, you guys will be among the first to know.

Regards

Mike

**** UPDATE ****

My friend has had a letter from BMW GB. It basically has the usual "I am sorry this one car has let you down, we take pride in our brand....blah...blah........"

They offerd him £250 to spend at any mini dealer of his choice in return for the whole matter to be dropped WOOHOO!! crack out the champagne boys, we got a result, NOT!

What an insult! They did go on to say that the return of the car was down to the dealer and not them, fair enough, but to offer gift vouchers to spend with a brand you currently loath is pathetic! I think the chap is in the process of weighing up his options before taking further action, but I garantee, that is not going to be the end! He still has not heard a thing from the dealer principal as was promised on Tuesday when their copy of the letter was recieved. You'd think that the dealer principal would at least give a prompt response, even if just to say he's looking into it!

As before, I'll keep you posted.

Mike

P.S. Anyone got the number for watchdog? I feel a bit of publicity coming on!

*** UPDATE ****

At last, a meeting with the dealer principal tonight, I'll let you know the outcome tomorow.

Will it be     or      ??????????????

I'l let you know!

Mike

*** UPDATE ***

Meeting with DP went ok. Got a decent apology! He has agreed to do the A-pillar cover under warranty (previously refused) and has offered another years extended warranty including an insured courtesy car whenever it comes in. He is also looking into buying the car back of this unfortunate chap. Not a bad start but would you keep a car plagued with problems even if another years warranty is offered? Lets see what figure the DP comes up with to buy the car back.

Regards

Mike

Excellent, at least your moving in the right direction.

I hope the offer is enough.

I have just read all this.  Gripping stuff.  Some interesting views and points made......

I spent many years in customer services, and as a simple rule:  If a customer receives 'good service', they will tell 2 people.  If a customer receives 'bad service', they will tell 10!

Glad to hear progress is being made.  It sounds like your friend has a 'Friday afternoon' car there, if it were me, I would get shot of it.  It will always be going wrong!!!

Yes, I agree about the Friday afternoon car, I'd never heard that phrase until now! 'lemon' being the other one.

I learnt the same too about good and bad service being spread by word of mouth. If I get good service somewhere, I will always tell as many people I can, to try and even the balance. It's true though, because you are angry, you want to tell people to get it off your chest, thats where the ten comes from. If you are happy, it's what you expect in the first place so really you don't rave about it too much. I'm just fed up of it in the motor trade. It's a trade I've worked in for over 10 years, one i take great interest and pride in working but there are too many sectors now which are very slap dash, bringing shoddy workmanship and bad customer care, quite frankly, I'm sick of it. It has to change or the only manufacturers left, are going to be the ones who give good service, not the ones who make lovely cars! Just look at the top gear car survey. The worst offenders are the ones you expect to be coming top like Mercedes being a good example of bad service/vehicle reliability whereas someone like Hyundai are coming in the top 10???, it makes worrying reading!

Regards

Mike

I'm glad its working out, this little saga is going the same way as the last complaint that was posted on here.

Its good that its does get resolved, but  bit sad that it takes so long, and annoys someone enough to "make" them post about it.

Never mind Hyundai, you want to see the service my wife recieved from Suzuki !, a five grand on the road car, and service like she had a Rolls Royce, and I'm not kidding.

320ci wrote: And I am also pleased Mill BMW and Preston Farm BMW are very good(my local BMW dealer's).

I thought we couldn't name dealer names. This could be libel (slander) because the dealer may think they are great and not just very good....

beast535 wrote: 320ci wrote: And I am also pleased Mill BMW and Preston Farm BMW are very good(my local BMW dealer's). I thought we couldn't name dealer names. This could be libel (slander) because the dealer may think they are great and not just very good....

Yep i agree with you, if you cant name them because they are bad, then you shouldnt name them if they are good, ....... it makes there head swell

beast535 wrote: 320ci wrote: And I am also pleased Mill BMW and Preston Farm BMW are very good(my local BMW dealer's). I thought we couldn't name dealer names. This could be libel (slander) because the dealer may think they are great and not just very good....

Well just to even it out then I have heard not so good things about the latter, who are also my local dealer. However for parts, which was all I ever used them for, they were ok.

Well, the saga has ended. The car has been sold (for a loss of only £900 over 7 months-not bad) and he now has a SAAB 9-3 convertible and before you say it, yes, he's had all the jokes, he's a 20 year old driving around in a 60 year olds car, but hey ho, horses for courses.

I just hope the dealer has learnt from this experience, I certainly have (about libel, slander, peoples interesting views etc!) Hope none of you ever have an experience like this one, if you do, be careful what you say on here! lol.

Cheers Chaps

Mike

Glad to here it has been resolved to the owners satisfaction

As for the Saab. Who cares what anyone else thinks. If he likes it then that's all that matters.