E30s: 318 vs 323 and 325
Printed From: Bavarian-Board.co.uk - BMW Owners Discussion Forum
Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW 3 Series
Forum Discription: This forum will deal with any issues on the BMW 3 Series (E21, E30, E36, E46, E90, E91 & E92)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=3537
Printed Date: 29-April-2024 at 07:00
Topic: E30s: 318 vs 323 and 325
Posted By: dbanbery
Subject: E30s: 318 vs 323 and 325
Date Posted: 12-October-2003 at 22:25
| i have a 318, next year i want a 323, is there a big difference in performance/mpg? also, does the 325i pee all over the 323i? i would like to get a 323i because i like the old school e30s and the insurance for a 325 would be astronomical... |
Replies:
Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 12-October-2003 at 22:48
| 323i is a waste of time - I had one. Not much better than a 320i and most are just rusty, knackered old turds. 325i is the only way to go. Especially automatic with PAS! |
Posted By: STEVE328
Date Posted: 12-October-2003 at 23:15
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As Andyboy said,but sod the auto box,get a manual! ------------- 
1996 N Montreal blue 328i saloon 45k / 01 Y Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat. |
Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 09:04
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There are 3 E30's worth considering, either a 318is with 136BHP, a 325isport with 170 BHP or an E30 M3 with 195-236BHP. The M3 is the most exspensive to run and insure, the 325isport is almost as quick, but is cheaper to buy run and insure and the 318is is a mini M3 with very spritley performance. A 323i is not worth getting unless you get the earlier E21 3 series, in which case you either want to get the later model 323's which have 150bhp, or one that has had a full 2.7 engine conversion from a 525e that is running 200BHP. Another thought is to buy an early Alpina C1 on an E30 which will be good fun. -------------  Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events
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Posted By: alanw15
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 09:30
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------------- BMW 325I SE 1988 |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 10:13
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okay... so its either the newer 318is or a 325i............... ill check out what the magic number on insurance is ------------- |
Posted By: dannywig
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 19:50
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I would also consider a 320i. They sound so much nicer than the 318is and 325i in my opinion. They're not as slow as people think either, my 320i is pretty nippy I think. But if performance is the be all and end all then go for the 325i. I wouldn't buy a 318is just bacuase it's only a four pot, I love the sound of the straight six, it's a really lovely sound. But I've heard 318is' are really good fun, would like to have a go in one. |
Posted By: thepits
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 21:22
My E30 325i - with loads of Mtec bits - is still for sale!! ------------- Cats know your every thought. But don't care. |
dbanbery wrote:Posted By: STEVE328
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 21:58
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I had a 320 I thought it was quite quick.Got to get it up top end of the rev counter though. -------------
1996 N Montreal blue 328i saloon 45k / 01 Y Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat. |
Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 23:05
Autos are slightly BETTER on fuel!! Gearing is taller because they have a taller diff and a lock up on the torque converter. Plus an autobox can change gear faster than any human. If I had to drive a 325i every day, I would never consider a manual when the switchable automatic is so good. Performance on the auto is just as good too. I used to manually shift my old 323i auto, leaving it in 3rd for 'spirited' driving! The thing about automatics is that after a month with one, you get so dependent on it that driving a manual becomes a pain in the arse........I love 'em!
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Posted By: Gary Y
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 23:21
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Got to agree with Andyboy! I own an E34 535i Sport Auto and it is a dream to drive. All you do is switch it to Sport and watch it fly! My sister-in-law, who also posts on here, has just been clever enough to buy herself an E30 325i convertible. I must admit it is a very tight car, with great acceleration and a lovely sound from the straight six engine (and it is manual!). The 535i sport is an easy car to drive with the auto box, but still has enough get up and go when you need it. ------------- Gary Y E34 535i Sport |
Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 13-October-2003 at 23:25
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I beg to differ on this one, If auto's were so good than all race cars would have them. Yes BMW auto are better than most and arguable in heavy traffic they may return good fuel consumption, but a well driven manual will be faster to change gear, better on fuel and ultimately more satisfying to drive. The biggest problem with an Auto is that an engineer has decided when you will and will not change gear, and this bears no relation to whats on the road, how you wish to drive etc. I have to say i hate auto's, which in my opinion spoil many a good car. But each to there own. ------------- Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events
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Posted By: paul325i
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 01:52
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The autos are heavier on fuel as they drain more power from the engine, newer autos circa year 2k are much more efficient and can be faster than a manual car with an average driver at the wheel. As for race cars having them i think that would take some more of the skill factor out of racing which would make it even more dull than it is now, could you imagine automatic formula one cars, expensive go karts and the drivers would probably fall asleep at the wheel. Autos are good if you don't like the effort involved with changing gear, all down to personal taste, i prefer to be more involved with the car and have more control over what it does, but then again driving an auto when your tired can be lovely. ------------- 
Visit http://www.geocities.com/paulav325i/ - My BMW Got an E30? Visit http://www.e30zone.co.uk - The E30 Zone |
Posted By: thepits
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 09:03
They already are Automatic Formula 1 Cars ! 
The gear changing is automatically set for each circuit, and all the driver has to do is sit there! No chance of missing a gear or over-reving! B O R I N G ..... Now ASCAR / NASCAR, there's a proper MANS Racing Car!!!  ------------- Cats know your every thought. But don't care. |
Posted By: paul325i
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 11:31
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Formula one cars are auto? Whats the paddle shift for then? Agree with NASCAR being mans sport, although formula one cars sound fantastic. -------------
Visit http://www.geocities.com/paulav325i/ - My BMW Got an E30? Visit http://www.e30zone.co.uk - The E30 Zone |
Posted By: b318isp
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 13:30
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The problem with auto boxes is that they delay throttle response. The modern locking boxes are better but they only lock in higher gears. You also can't heel and toe. And you have to be very skilled in changing gear manually for them to be controlled (avoiding unwanted up and down shifts).
Notice the F1 cars and the semi-automatic gearboxes on the road are adapted manual boxes. |
Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 14:46
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E30 325i; mpg on urbaqn cycle 22.6 mpg manual, 22.6 automatic. At constant 75mph 34.4 manual, 34 auto. Both cars do the same MPG and I always found that autos were better around town on light throttle.
Kick down on the 4 speed autos is instant, especially in Sport. Heel and toe? Never used it on the road or track. I learned how to do it but found it a waste of time so don't bother. Anybody who thinks an automatic 325i is a gutless, thirsty sludgebox should try one for a month. I've found autos to be faster in most real world situations as opposed to on paper figures. Rather than farting about with clutch and gearchanging when coming up to a bendy bit in the road, isn't it just easier to let the gearbox do all the work?! Mind you, a 318i Auto is pretty grim and you need a big engine to make it work. |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 17:06
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autos are too easy to drive, and good if you really wanna push the car to its limits safely i think, as you have more time to concentrate on bends etc..... i drove an auto when i was learning (a4 1.9tdi) and i found myself felling more confident..... a manual is faster than an automatic, because even though an auto knows when to change gear for the engine, it doesnt know what the road is like (surface/hill/weather)... but again it depends on what kind of driver you are..... i would have an auto as a curtesy car or a lend out because its a nice change..... but i think i would find myself gettin lazy ------------- |
Posted By: graham325isport
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 17:32
| I have always had manuals but I bought my 325 Sport thinking it was a manual( long Story )and it was a switchable auto box. I must say it was the best thing I ever did! The car is so responsive in kick down and sport mode, but like everyone says its a matter of taste |
Posted By: alanw15
Date Posted: 14-October-2003 at 19:25
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------------- BMW 325I SE 1988 |
Posted By: Mark R
Date Posted: 15-October-2003 at 07:54
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Ok back to the original subject line:-
318is:- Nippy, not very fast! But handle VERY well, brakes are good, suspension even better Economy in mine averages 37mpg...
323i:- Only made for two years 85/86, tons of torque, no LSD means sideways action just when you don't expect it... I owned one for 5 years, used to average 29mpg. In standard form it was quicker than may mates Series II Rs Turbo! Watch for rust, rust and more rust... 325i:- Cheaper than a M3... but still pull like a train. Economy 23mpg, heads crack, brakes can be a bit iffy if pushed too hard, but engine makes a lovely noise when pushed. Good fun!
Overall if your young and insurance is an issue you can't go wrong with a 318is, it will entertain you! Auto's can be good fun too... it depends on your journey, of your sat in heavy traffic all day, then a auto is for you, as I always seem to find E30 clutches start to 'stick' and judder if your sat in traffic. ------------- Mark Roberts 
E30 318iS Wessex Region Secretary E30 Registrar & committee member Someone left a note on my windscreen. It read 'Parking Fine' that was nice |
Posted By: bmwnewboy
Date Posted: 15-October-2003 at 17:28
| get a 325i,they ripp,some nice alpina wheels and your sorted,ive got the convertible adds to the image!!! |
Posted By: Eamo
Date Posted: 15-October-2003 at 17:55
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for me it would be a 323 with a 3:9 diff!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Eamo
Date Posted: 15-October-2003 at 18:00
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by the way im actively looking for an e30 323 coupe. if anyone knows of one let me know
ta ------------- |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 15-October-2003 at 20:59
disagree.... NASCAR is the american football of racing.... lets go in circles... fun... hmm no wonder US car are crap round bends ------------- |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 15-October-2003 at 21:07
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oops messed that one up..... im goin to see in a year what cost less to buy... insurance on the 323 is cheaper than the 318is, plus i like older e30s, and may be tempted next year to buy a nice e21, unless anyone here wants to tell me a big problem with them? 325i too expensive e30 m3 out of the question, im 19 for god sakes ------------- |
Posted By: Gayle
Date Posted: 16-October-2003 at 11:36
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I've got a 325i convertible and wouldn't swap it for anything else. Tried a 318i lux first but performance is everything. I know insurance can be a killer but seeing as the 318is is group 13 ish, the 323 and the 325i are group 15ish , personally, I'd go for the 325i and work overtime if I had to! Plus there are probably more 325i's to choose from. As to manual over automatic, not sure, still trying to get my brov-in-law to swap his 535i sport auto for the day, just for research purposes of course!!! I wouldn't take it anywhere near a race track, honest!
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Posted By: rezaq
Date Posted: 16-October-2003 at 12:53
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Must say, I had the same reservations about autos as most but since buying my 1990 switchable 325 Sport I have changed my mind! It soooo easy to drive (and you loose the typical clutch judder higher mileage E30's) and goes like stink.
I am also lucky enough to have a 1991 320iSE manual which is fantastically responsive with the right mods. I have changed the airflow meter, have fitted a K & N panel filter, FSE boost valve and a Scorpion exhaust. The car is fantastic to drive and really does go. If my sport was a manual I would be more content, but am not going to complain about the auto. Obviously, the 325 sport is quicker but the fun in the 320 manual is more satisfying. |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 16-October-2003 at 18:47
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is it worth me lookin at a 320 then? eamo is persuading me otherwise with the 323i, since it isnt that much more insurance as opposed to my 318i, hmm.... and cant you fit the limited slip diff to them anyway? if you find a 325 at a breakers? ------------- |
Posted By: Mark R
Date Posted: 16-October-2003 at 18:56
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Some of the 323i's had a LSD, but if you were to find a decent 323i i would buy it with or without the LSD. You would be able to fit one later if you wanted, at a cost!
Can't comment about the 320i performance, never driven one! as a sub-note, the 318is is quicker than the 320i... ------------- Mark Roberts
E30 318iS Wessex Region Secretary E30 Registrar & committee member Someone left a note on my windscreen. It read 'Parking Fine' that was nice |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 16-October-2003 at 19:22
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As most are saying get a 325i but I would deffo go for the sport. Ive had a 325 se and a sport. No difference in performance really but they are a much better car overall. Very smooth and look great with 17" Alpinas on them. You can get a mint one for £3k and they wont drop much. Chris |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 17-October-2003 at 13:52
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cant afford a 325, not for a few years at least ------------- |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 17-October-2003 at 18:43
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Why how old are you?? Is it the insurance cost or the cost to buy. It is pointless to get a 323 might aswell get 320 but then again keep what you got until you can afford to get 325 sport or E30 M3. Im sure insurance aint that bad, I had two 325s ( se and a sport) when I was 19 and it only cost me £600 Chris |
Posted By: dannywig
Date Posted: 18-October-2003 at 15:40
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The 318is may be slightly quicker, but they don't sound anywhere near as nice as a 320i. I heard a 318is the other day and they sound like any other 4 cylinder car. To me the sound of the engine is very important, if doesn't sound nice then I'm not interested. |
Posted By: Mark R
Date Posted: 18-October-2003 at 16:52
Your right my 318is doesn't sound anything like a decent 6 pot, I miss my 323i for that exact reason! as well as the extra power / torque... My next BM will be a 6 pot! ------------- Mark Roberts
E30 318iS Wessex Region Secretary E30 Registrar & committee member Someone left a note on my windscreen. It read 'Parking Fine' that was nice |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 18-October-2003 at 18:01
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I always thought the six pot sound was the best ever but then got me a M3 E30. To listen to that with the revs going up past 7,000 it sounds ace. Ive had two 325s and they dont like being redlined until E36 24 valver came out. (My opinion anyway)
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Posted By: thepits
Date Posted: 18-October-2003 at 21:32
OK - you asked for it! The paddle shift is there IF the driver wants to OVER-RIDE the automatic computer map for gear-changes for the circuit. And for the pit-stops, and if (When!) he spins... So its an OVER-RIDE for the automatic gear changes - got that?
If you like Nascar, come to Rockingham for the ASCAR, no Auto's allowed there!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- Cats know your every thought. But don't care. |
Posted By: STEVE328
Date Posted: 18-October-2003 at 22:31
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The 2 seater Minardis at Rockingham recently were exellent The noise alone was better (and louder)than 20 odd ASCAR racers! -------------
1996 N Montreal blue 328i saloon 45k / 01 Y Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat. |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 19-October-2003 at 20:32
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i am 19 nearly 20 and it cost me 1550 TPFT (the cheapest i could get) for my c reg 318i valued at £900 (its probably could get £1000 for it since its completely original with FSH (BMW up to 1999), good alloys, leather, aircon, new tyres new battery with a small amount of rust (cosmetic). the engine is mint with no smoke at all, and the drive train is mint too.... (apart from needing some new axle bushes i think.... slight knock when i lift my foot off clutch when i change gear, and its pretty simple if i have the tools yeah?) anyway, i have only seen a handful of e30s looking better than mine since ive had it (bear in mind i havent been to any shows)
id rather have bettr mpg than better sound..... mine sounds better than a normal 4 pot simply because its a BMW, and thats the old M10 engine!! proper bo i tell thee ------------- |
Posted By: Gernster
Date Posted: 20-October-2003 at 11:50
| just bought the E30 318is, very pleased so far, but its my first beemer so I dont have much to bench mark it against!, back end gets out nicely and it feels as quick as my 130 bhp rs1600i (mk 3 escort) |
Posted By: dannywig
Date Posted: 20-October-2003 at 18:47
I'm sure the 318is is a great car, I'm just in love with my 320i at the moment. |
Posted By: thepits
Date Posted: 20-October-2003 at 22:20
Yep, I'm sure they were. Had to miss that meeting as was on holiday (had to keep SWMBO happy!), otherwise I would have been running the ASCAR Pits. Sorry I missed it, as last year at Donington was superb - better than the previous year because a certain Mr N M, wasn't there to crash them!!  
Oh, p.s. my E30 325iSE is STILL up for grabs - come to Donington on the 26th, first to see WILL buy!!  ------------- Cats know your every thought. But don't care. |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 21-October-2003 at 18:22
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fair commnet dannywig... ive only had mine 2 months and the novelty of sitting in it and saying "its allllll mine" is still a novelty ------------- |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 21-October-2003 at 21:50
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When I get my M3 minted then I will give you the knod and take ya for a spin if you like. Dont really want it in Asda car park though. Chris |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 22-October-2003 at 23:02
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yeh yeh cool..... i posted similar words in the other thread..... nice one mate... u gotta see my e30, it aint minted yet but im working on it.... old bmw = good investment... is it true that you can get an e30 m3 in RHD, a limited edition? if not does it detract from the value converting it? is it really worth it? ------------- |
Posted By: Mark R
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 07:59
You could get the E30 M3 in RHD form, mostly they were converted by Birds (The place, not the tottie). I'm no M3 guru, but from what other people say the handling is effected by the conversion beacause of the extanded brake linkages and the different steering rack used. The LHD has something like 3.2 turns lock to lock, the RHD varients used the 325 rack which gives approx 4.0 turns lock to lock. Get a LHD, stops the misses from driving it ------------- Mark Roberts
E30 318iS Wessex Region Secretary E30 Registrar & committee member Someone left a note on my windscreen. It read 'Parking Fine' that was nice |
Posted By: Eamo
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 09:53
I test drove an e30 rhd that had been converted by Birds and compared against the lhd the steering is a lot slower which is why I bought a lhd one. A lot slower you say? How can that be? Its impossible to describe what I mean but if you drove the 2 you would notice a huge difference. The beaut about the e30 m3 is that you can steer it around a corner without having to slow down or feel as if the car is on a razors edge with the arse of it feeling as if its about to go t*ts up! ------------- |
Posted By: Eamo
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 09:54
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Danny
go for the 323 - savage amount of torque and the sound of the six pots! ------------- |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 15:08
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yeh i think i will..... unless i cant afford to even change mine next year... ill be looking to sell mine for over a grand hopefully.... i just need to finish tidying it up ------------- |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 15:11
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did they do a special e30 m3 rack then? isnt the e36 rack the same? i know the lower front legs on mine are the same on the 34, and the 36, so it wouldnt suprise me if the e36 m3 RHD rack fitted bosh straight in...? although isnt the e36 wider? enighten me i think im a bit outta my depth ------------- |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 15:13
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the missus cant drive ------------- |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 23-October-2003 at 22:54
No it doesnt fit. The best rack to fit is a 325 sport but as decribed earlier its not as good and takes away the feel of driving. The only way to drive M3 is LHD. You can get used to it within a couple of drives. Ive had a Golf Rallye and that also was great. Dont even consider an E36 M3, they are just high powered executive cars. An M3 E30 is a racing car. You see when I take you out in mine!!! Chris |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 24-October-2003 at 13:19
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wasnt thinkin of ever buying one, theyre too run of the mill and blend too well..... while others think thats a good thing its easy for some fool to stick an m3 badge on a 325 or 328 etc and it look too authentic..... that sucks.. the e30 m3 is the don, and i know that without being in one since ive read up! (that doesnt mean i dont want you to show me what it REALLY does!) ------------- |
Posted By: paul325i
Date Posted: 24-October-2003 at 14:53
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The E36 is still a capable car, alot of people dismiss it because its larger and heavier but it can hold its own against alot of top cars. The E30 M3 is the true sports car as falkster says, but i wouldn't want to run one as an everyday car, to much of a classic to waste, plus they are minging to drive round town. -------------
Visit http://www.geocities.com/paulav325i/ - My BMW Got an E30? Visit http://www.e30zone.co.uk - The E30 Zone |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 24-October-2003 at 21:27
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Dont agree. They are very good to drive everyday. The value is not going to drop so the comment being too much of a classic to waste is not correct. I bet ya in 5 years time when mine has another 20k on the clock its still gonna be worth more than a E36 M3 on a T plate. |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 25-October-2003 at 01:29
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only ever seen 2 e30 m3s in real life.... seen 100s of e36 m3s and 1000s of e46 m3s.... im actually put off by the e46 m3 cos theyre soo common..... too many people with too much money....... dammit gimme some ------------- |
Posted By: falkster
Date Posted: 25-October-2003 at 10:21
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A friend of mine has an E46 M3 and another with SMG. Great cars, very fast but not a drivers car. You can tame your driving down to suit conditions in an E30 but because of all the electrical crap on E46 (and others) you cant get to see what the car REALLY does. Chris |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 25-October-2003 at 15:27
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like most new cars........ ------------- |
Posted By: paul325i
Date Posted: 25-October-2003 at 17:20
It is a waste really though, running one everyday it will get dented, worn, and with very high mileage the E30 M3 is worth peanuts. You are probably right about it being worth more than an E36 in 5 years but thats because its rarer not because its just better, the E30 has a cult status whereas the E36 is more of an M3 for everybody, and the E46 even more so (except price wise). -------------
Visit http://www.geocities.com/paulav325i/ - My BMW Got an E30? Visit http://www.e30zone.co.uk - The E30 Zone |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 25-October-2003 at 18:19
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paul just loves his 325!! ------------- |
Posted By: daddy cool
Date Posted: 03-November-2003 at 01:51
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sorry guys but i thought the whole thing about the three series was the fact that its a drivers car !!! perfectly balanced , comfortable, great familly motoring , and of course superb for showing all the crap boyracers in their novas and jap crap rice burners how to perfectly powerslide a car into and out of corners and roundabouts . Surely automatics arent gna give you the controll that a manual will even if you select your gear manually ! and of course if you forget or do it buy accident the auto box will change up a gear mid slide and cause the car to stop spinnig and dig in , NASTY when it happens ( especially ifyouve got your missis or your mum in the car , sorry mum ) i think at the end of the day tho it all comes down to personal preference , i guess we arent all hooligans !!!!!!!!!! ------------- e30 2.7 cab e30 325i e30 325 sport e30 318 touring e28 m5 e28 m535 e34 m5 e39 540 e36 318ti (green) e36 318ti (mauve) |
Posted By: dbanbery
Date Posted: 03-November-2003 at 09:53
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lol, ill agree with that ------------- |
Posted By: pedromatos
Date Posted: 15-November-2003 at 13:38
why dont you buy a e30 320is with 192hp, in portugal there are a lot of them. ------------- pedro portugal |
Posted By: paul325i
Date Posted: 15-November-2003 at 14:35
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In UK rare as hell, and left hand drive only. -------------
Visit http://www.geocities.com/paulav325i/ - My BMW Got an E30? Visit http://www.e30zone.co.uk - The E30 Zone |
Posted By: pedromatos
Date Posted: 15-November-2003 at 15:48
in portugal they cost about 4500£ more ou less(7500€ or 10000€) they are cheap that the M3 and the power is almost the same, I will maybe buy a 323i e21 for 1500€(-/+ 1000£) just nide a paint, and it is quite a happy driving machine, I have a friend that have a 323i e21 and he is installing a turbo from escort rs turbo(mk3 or mk4?) let´s see how it stay´s.(sorry the bad english) ------------- pedro portugal |