Its one thing to have an M sport badge on a standard 3 series but your takin the piss trying to sell an 840 as a B12 ALPINA !

Do the visible valvestems not indicate replica wheels? As far as I know all genuine Alpina wheels have the valves in the hubs with an air canal in one of the spokes, no? £3500 for replica wheels!

Interesting als, as an aside, that of all the weird and wonderful marques on the carzone menu, Alpina is not one of them despite status as an independent manufacturer.

Larzyh.

And no red needles on blue dials! Is there even an Alpina dashboard plaque?

Larzyh.

larzyh wrote: Do the visible valvestems not indicate replica wheels? As far as I know all genuine Alpina wheels have the valves in the hubs with an air canal in one of the spokes, no? £3500 for replica wheels! Larzyh.

Larzyh,

The wheels have been puzzling me too. The later E39 18" wheels had the valve hidden alright as you mentioned. The earlier E34 5 series 17" rims didnt. I have been looking at pictures of B12's and cant make out if the valve is hidden or not but it appears it is, so the rims may be fake too.

I sent a mail off to the lads at ascars. Will see what reply I get

Heres what I said to them.

Hi Just a quick mail to let you know that the Alpina B8 was infact an E36 3 series with a 4.6 V8 engine and not an 8 series. The 840 you have advertised obviously couldnt be a B8 and is a replica of a B12, although all B12's were V12's and based on the 850 rather than 840. You ad is slightly misleading as it states its an Alpina in the title where as the car is an 840 with alpina wheels and steering wheel and a rear badge which incidently is on the wrong side!!! You might want to correct your ad. Nice car all the same and best of luck with the sale. Kind regards

Just in case anyone is interested, here is what a real B12 looks like.

[/QUOTE]

Just in case anyone is interested, here is what a real B12 looks like.

leon - that B12 is mind-bogglingly gorgeous!!!

Larzyh.

I cant believe this coincidence lads, was pulling out on to a roundabout near the crescent shopping centre in Limerick yesterday when i spotted in the queue a rather interesting looking 8 series, even though i had right of way i kept letting off cars in his lane off just to get that bit closer, anyways as he pulled out i shot out behind him and procedded to follow it the whole way into town. It was a genuine B12 alright, full alpina kit, alpina wheels, properly badged as B12 and even had B12 DHS as the number plate (UK plates), Im not sure exactly but i think the colour was the same as the one pictured above. Couldnt get over the back tyres, like garden rollers!!

neoman, the Alpina plaque on the dashboard is not necessarily a guarantee of authenticity - there are fake ones of those too. But of course any genuine Alpina would have it.

Larzyh.

Ben O Brien wrote: It was a genuine B12 alright, full alpina kit, alpina wheels, properly badged as B12 and even had B12 DHS as the number plate (UK plates)

That plate shows up as a 1991 850i.

genuine alpinas don't usually show up with make and model on the dvla or rac number plate sites

I could go and buy Alpina spoilers, decals, mats, badges and wheels but it would dishonest to describe my car as an Alpina; it would be a BMW with Alpina accessories, yes?

Speaking as an Alpina non-expert; I would not be surprised if Sytner fitted Alpina parts, as available as accessories but presumably these cars don't qualify as Alpina cars as such and won't have manufacturing plaques.

Larzyh.

It depends on what details were given when it was registered. The B12 would be based on an 850 and maybe it was just registered as an 850. I know with my B10, I paid all the correct VRT for a Bi-Turbo and filled out the forms with the Marque as being BMW Alpina and the model being B10 Bi-Turbo. What comes back on the VLC, Marque: BMW, Model: Other. Its amazing, they know what the car is when it comes to charging the VRT but dont know what it is when filling out the VLC. ANd if you put the reg into cartell or whatever that site is, all you get is BMW.

As regards the plaques, you even get genuine plaques coming up for sale on ebay off crashed cars. You will know its genuine when you lift the bonnet, it will have 2 chassis numbers, a BMW one and an Alpina one. In the case of the Alpina one it will end with the same number as the car. ie, my BT is no.223 of 507 and the chassis number ends is 223.

@Ben, I also remember reading something about the Synters cars being different alright. One of the lads who keeps a register of a lot of the Alpinas was saying they are harder to trace. I am not sure if they follow the same number sequence.

Ben O Brien wrote: Im not sure but i think i read somewhere before about a non turbo B10 e34 being down on the log book as a 535i as a result of synters taking the 535 shell and fitting the alpina goodies.

Ben, afaik this was true in the '80's when Sytner assembled the Alpina cars for the UK using Alpina kits.  I believe that its also one of the reasons that trying to verify the history of '80's Alpina's is so difficult.  To my knowlwdge they didn't keep great records of what spec was applied to what cars, etc. 

I understand that the more recent Alpina's, built in Buchloe, have Alpina as the manufacturer on the reg doc.

Very interesting information, leon - thanks. And Dergside...

Larzyh.

Dergside wrote: I understand that the more recent Alpina's, built in Buchloe, have Alpina as the manufacturer on the reg doc.

This would be true in most cases but as I mentioned above its when they get imported to somewhere like Ireland especially and maybe also the UK. The forgeign registration cert of my car had all the correct details with the manufacturer as Alpina, and as I said when I registered it here its now a BMW, not Alpina and not by my choice. Had I known that, I would have just tried to VRT it as a 535i and saved myself a heap of money.

Surely you would have not been able to clear it as a 535i though if it states Alpina B10 BT on the foreign reg documents? I had an argument over this with them in the VRT office in Ennis when we cleared a Toyota Landcruiser, everything was genuine with the jeep but it had been put down as a landcruiser VX on the V5 which is the amazon shape but the jeep is a GX which is the more common landcruiser, anyway we had to pay the extra 800 odd euro and clear it as an amazon when it is infact a normal landcruiser. We have appealed but we will have to wait and see.

Surely though you would also run into insurance issues if the car is a 535i on the book and insured as a B10 Bi Turbo. Not to pick on you or anything leon im just curious! If this was the case you could bring in an M3 E36 and clear/insure it a 316i..

Ben O Brien wrote: Surely you would have not been able to clear it as a 535i though if it states Alpina B10 BT on the foreign reg documents? I had an argument over this with them in the VRT office in Ennis when we cleared a Toyota Landcruiser, everything was genuine with the jeep but it had been put down as a landcruiser VX on the V5 which is the amazon shape but the jeep is a GX which is the more common landcruiser, anyway we had to pay the extra 800 odd euro and clear it as an amazon when it is infact a normal landcruiser. We have appealed but we will have to wait and see. Surely though you would also run into insurance issues if the car is a 535i on the book and insured as a B10 Bi Turbo. Not to pick on you or anything leon im just curious! If this was the case you could bring in an M3 E36 and clear/insure it a 316i..

Ben, if it came down to it I probably wouldnt have done it, but the person I was dealing with probably wouldnt have known any better and I am sure I could have actually convinced her it was a 535i considering I convinced her to let me pay €300 less than she wanted initially and I am far from the type who could sell snow to the Eskimos!!!!

As regards insurance, well I dont know to be honest, its insured as an Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo but my VLC document technically states, Marque BMW and model other so??? 

I have all the receipts and I think I have a copy of the form I filled out so I should be covered. One of the reasons I was also keen to VRT it correctly is for potential resale as it would be correctly stated on the VLC but again that went out the window when someone somewhere in Shannon read "B10 Bi-Turbo" and saw "Other" 

If i were you id be sending it back to shannon and getting it changed to B10 Bi-Turbo. Im not sure it would affect resale as it is the genuine article but it would make most buyers suspicious as to why it doesnt state what it is on the log.

On a side note the B10 BT does still remain one of my top ten on my wish-list for cars in the future!

I suppose cars can be cleared incorrectly, look at the amount of Civic SiR's and Skyline GTSt's for sale in the autotrader every thursday that are openly declared as "1.6 on the log book" or "non-turbo on log book" and these are often car dealers but thats another matter entirely!

Ex Sultan of Brunei B12 now for sale. Ultra rare 5.7 with manual 6 speed box, Apparantly two 5.7's were made with the 6 manual. Nice price tag too but practically no mileage on it.

http://www.maxted-page.com/cars_for_sale/1992_bmw_alpina.htm - http://www.maxted-page.com/cars_for_sale/1992_bmw_alpina.htm

That is a real keeper!  I'd love to get a snoop around the various garages of the Sultan and have a nose through his historical car records.  He almost single-handedly kept companies like Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari and other top marques in business in the early '90s especially with the one off and customized cars that he ordered. 

Legend has it that most of these brands would consult with him before embarking on any low run models because he generally bought several at a time and if he didn't want them then the viability of the run would be in question.  Not sure, but I think the Bentley Continental Sedanca SC (the targa roofed Conti) was one.

Yeh I have read similar stories as well. And not only limited run models, but apparantly manufacturers and its believed Alpina are included here have made him cars specifically to his spec. For example, you would wonder why they only made 2 of the B12's with manual 6 speed boxes, maybe he requested them.

There was a list floating around of his cars there, its a bit dated and is from a few years back, am sure its been posted up here before but there was 9 McLaren F1's on it if I remember correctly.

Ben O Brien wrote: I actually have a set of door cards and a leather/alcantara interior that came out of a Volvo 262C in the Uk that once belonged to the Sultan of Brunei. There's my claim to fame!

Does he still have the rest of the car??

Ha ha..... No i believe it broke down and was abandoned in the Uk, a fellow volvo nut bought the car but it had sat for years and was too bad to restore..

leon wrote: Ex Sultan of Brunei B12 now for sale. Ultra rare 5.7 with manual 6 speed box, Apparantly two 5.7's were made with the 6 manual. Nice price tag too but practically no mileage on it. http://www.maxted-page.com/cars_for_sale/1992_bmw_alpina.htm - http://www.maxted-page.com/cars_for_sale/1992_bmw_alpina.htm

£55k is some price, less than 2K miles on it tho. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than a Mclaren F1 I suppose