Hi peeps.

My BMW has been burning oil rather excesively for a while. Its got full BM service history and has covered 111k miles. Iv just had it in to the garage and spent £600 on it including service, breather valve and pipes, coil packs, a bit of soldering, heater resistor and probably some other bits I cant remember.

Anyhow since having the breather valve changed The car now smokes like hell, its embarassing! 530 miles after the work I have had to put nearly 3 litres of oil in again!!!

Iv had it back to the garage and they have told me its internal wear and baisically a new engine is the cure.

Obviously im a bit p#$t that iv just spent £600 on an engine that I now need to change.

So Im looking for an engine(2.2 6 cyl) at a reasonable price.

P.S I was told around £900 to fit an engine and roughly £900-£1000 for the engine and then our friend V.A.T. on top. Does this sound reasonable??

Thanks in advance 

A specialist

Quarry motors at sheffield 

I have to say that engine wear in the 6 is very rare...we get them in with 250000 miles and no sign of any problems.

Little concerned as it was burning a little oil then it has a new breather and suddenly its thomas the tank.

How did they come to the conclusion its the engine wear..what tests and the cause.If you are burning that much oil from piston ring wear then you would be down on power and probably rough running.

Have they checked the fault memory by any chance?

when they say they replaced the breather valve,do you mean the cyclone under the inlet manifold.....I have come across one of the breather pipes to the cylclone collapsing,this causes a large increase in crankcase pressure and sending the oil into the manifold.

They called the breather a "scavinger valve" which was blocked and not alowing the burned oil to escape, not the valve is clear it is allowing the burned oil to escape freely.

Im not sure what tests they did, I droped it off and they had it half a day. It had been on the computer they said because when i took it in for the work doing it was running rough which turned out to be 2 coil packs.

There is no loss in power and the engine is quiet and smooth when revving all the way through the range. I would expect the engine to be noisy too!

Get a compression test done, that will tell you if the engines worn, if it buring the amount of oil you say it is I doubt very much it would be running well, i.e. "no loss in power and the engine is quiet and smooth when revving all the way through the range"

They probably didn't do a compression test or they would have figures to back up there diagnosis of it being 'donald ducked'.

Was it smoking like a trooper before they 'serviced' it?

Thanks for the help guys!

Yes it was smoking quite a bit and burning more oil than it should be but its smoking like mad now. Especially on start up and if i press the "loud" pedal.

I think I'll be visiting halfords in the next couple of days. I'll report back the outcome

Thanks again.

Right iv got a test kit so I'll post the results up once Iv had chance to use it

Thanks guys.

Sporty1 wrote: Test with engine stone cold... sitting over night and then warm.

Ok will do.

Hi, Im just in the process of doing the compression test and I have come across some plastic covers over the plugs which are bolted down with 2 bolts. Is there a rubber seal underneath these that I mite damage ??

Just wanted to be sure before I continue.

Thanks.

Also can anyone tell me where the MPI fuse is so I dont make a mess of the engine. Sorry Im not a mechanic so a little bit dumb

Thanks again

This should help you....

http://e46fanatics.com/howto/howtodetail.php?howto_id=44 - http://e46fanatics.com/howto/howtodetail.php?howto_id=44

Sporty1 wrote: This should help you.... http://e46fanatics.com/howto/howtodetail.php?howto_id=44 - http://e46fanatics.com/howto/howtodetail.php?howto_id=44

Thanks

Iv done the compression test and the results are

(1 to 6 being from the bumper towards the windscreen)

1 - 200psi

2 - 210psi

3 - 210psi

4 - 210psi

5 - 200psi

I couldnt do the 6th as the extention i was using was too long but the 5th was 200psi so the 6th should have been fine right ?!

the plugs were fine and it actually fired up on 1 cylinder with the copression tester in it ( I left the other plugs in situe until it was their turn)

There is soot in the exhaust no oil residue so its definately burning oil not blowing it out of the back.

Soooooo......

Where next?

I was going to try putting some Wyns oil addative in to see how that fairs up and maybe putting some 5/30 oil in rather than the mobil1 0/40.

What do you think?

Regards.

Those compressions are fine....Any sign of oil in the coolant?

I would be looking to take the manifols off and checking for crankcase breather failure-pipe collapsed/poorly routed.You may find a large amount of oil sat at the bottom of the manifold...

After this you need to carry out a cylinder leakage test-thisa test puts a compression into the cylinder and the overal leakage of air should be no greater than 5 % - 10 %  havent had to do this since the early nikosil problem...oh and the new e65 v12 n73 engine

We dont see any other problems with these as such..head gaskets,heads,engines very very rare indeed.

The "crankcase breather pipe" it that the scavenger valve?? If so Iv had a new one on it along with new pipes in the work listed in the 1st post.

As for the cylinder leakage test is this a DIY test  that a novice could do or would it be a dealer/mechanic job?

And if so how much would I expect to pay?

Thanks for the help 

The kits we tend to use cost £200+ and you will also need an air compressor .The job although similar to what you have just done is easily misread.

I should take about an hour to do and could be done by any good indie-a stealer will cost a fair bit.

I know the pipes were replaced but my concern is that they are placed correctly..not kinked.Or even blocked..What condition was the scavenger/cyclone/breather/oil seperator

The oil in the manifold will give a clue as to whether the fault is engine or breathing...If its clear then the oil has to be internal....Its the amount of oil thats being lost thats odd.If thats through wear then the engine would struggle to start and run...That amount of oil cant pass through a head gasket or valve guide or even through a crack without causing major running difficulties.....Very interesting!!!!Im raking through the grey matter on this one

The guy at quarry motors said the "scavenger valve" as they call it was blocked up. That was about it.

But he said "with the scavenger valve being blocked, it was preventing the burned oil from escaping and now the new valve was on the burned oil has a clear way through" Does this sound right?

So for the cylinder leak im going to have to book it in a garage, as for the scavenger, Is it something i can see easily enough to ensure that there are no kinks?

It seems like you know your stuff, Its a shame you dont live closer,the car would be parked on your drive first thing in the morning

The only oil that passes into the scavenger is from crankcase breathing.it has a cyclone effect which catches the particals of oil and lets them run off to the sump,and let the air in the manifold for burn...If for any reason the the pipes block or kink the crankcase pressure will rise and pump the oil to the manifold........

The pipes run through and under the manifold...one of the pipes runs from the n/s top front of the cam cover and heads down under the manifold.

When the engine is running,undo the oil filler cap..Is there alot of pressure-gasp of air and does the engine then run roughly?

"When the engine is running,undo the oil filler cap..Is there alot of pressure-gasp of air and does the engine then run roughly?"

I will try this today and post back.

Thanks

Theres a vacuum pipe that goes from the scavenger to the inlet manifold.You need to make sure it isnt trapped or perished...Unfortunately thats manifold off for that,all other pipes can be checked then as well.

Trying to make sure every avenue is covered before an engine is fitted.

The engine should run like a bag of poo with the oil cap undone.What you are doing is creating an air bypass to the manifold with the cap off.This unmetered air causes the dme to richen the mixture up to a point but not enough to compensate....You would also find the dme light comes on as the emissions go through the roof.

I would say you have a crankcase breathing problem somewhere,I think you need to pop the manifold off to check the fitment of the scavenger.

No there was just a slight increase of revs, No gasp for air at all.  But I only had the cap off for a minute and didnt rev the engine or anything.

I'll have to take it to a garage as my tool box is limited. Also I have no idea what the valve looks like. ( iv googled it and cant find any pics of one either)

Is it a specialist job or can I take it to the local garage??

Also a point that may be worth mentioning is me and the girlfriend both find the car stalls more easily than any other car we have driven.

I live in the south yorkshire area, can you reccomend one near me?

Thanks.

Uncle kev wrote: No there was just a slight increase of revs, No gasp for air at all.  But I only had the cap off for a minute and didnt rev the engine or anything. I'll have to take it to a garage as my tool box is limited. Also I have no idea what the valve looks like. ( iv googled it and cant find any pics of one either) Is it a specialist job or can I take it to the local garage?? Also a point that may be worth mentioning is me and the girlfriend both find the car stalls more easily than any other car we have driven.

I would use a BMW specailist...Im not running yet,still stuck at dealer!!!! the reason for using a specailist is they know what to look for(or should)..A local garage may struggle depending on how good they are.

The m52tu 2.3 is one for stalling-may be coz of the oil but they do like to cut out when you need to cross traffic.

Fingers crossed you get a result soon.

Uncle kev wrote: My BMW has been burning oil rather excesively for a while. Its got full BM service history and has covered 111k miles.

Hi Kev

I have the same/similar problem!  I have an M54 2.2 and about 110k miles I had an oil service and then oil consumption shot up to a litre every 400 miles.  The car has always used some oil (up to 1l every 1200 miles) but this was nuts! 

There are no leaks but lots of soot in the exhaust, and I've never seen much obvious smoke (except once and I suspect an overfill!).  Running is smooth and power normal (except when the oil gets empty).  I also get an intermittant yellow oil warning for about 10 seconds about 5 to 10 seconds after I start the engine.  Everything else is normal - sounds a bit like yours from the thread!

I've just had new crankcase breather/oil seperator fitted at Leeds BMW dealer (£130) as they suggested it's the place to start.  I'm now running 500miles to se if I'm still using oil.  Have tried several oil changes with various grades and no joy.

Did once see a small amount of mayo under the filler cap but wiped this away and it never returned (so hoping it's NOT the headgasket).  Like you I suspect that the engine is inducting the oil somehow and burning it through the air intake.

Have you got any non standard induction (after market filter fitted) by any chance? 

Had the stalling problem from new - engine used to cut out when coming to a stop with the clutch in.  BMW tweaked something and fixed that though...

Would be interested to hear how you get on....

Will post if the breather valve has any impact (but suspect not)!

Good Luck

I_11

Barry_Mc wrote: snap individual - same engine same problem, everything down to a tee, only 3k miles behind you. it's an old post, by any chance did anyone find a solution?

Hi Barry

Well, update for you....

I tried having the breather valve replaced, no change from that.  I have a long arguement with the BMW dealer which resulted in them basically saying they couldn't give a rats.  The engineer did say that provided it runs well and there's no loss of power (it does and there isn't) there shouldn't be a problem as this kind of mileage is nothing for these cars.  They recommended a different oil, Castrol 15W 40 High mileage.  This I tried and yes it did slow down the rate of consumption but it's not a synthetic oil so would need replacing every 3000 miles.  I spoke to my friend who's a vehicle technician and he thinks that oil is not so good.  He's going to get me some semi synth 15-40 (trade price, so it's cheaper) to try.  He had a look at the car too and is stumped, he even tested the emissions and it was ok. 

From what I can tell it occasionally smokes visibly at high revs (but then the exhaust is full of crap from the burned oil) but never visibly otherwise.  The distance I get from a litre of oil is about the same (depending on the oil rather than the driving style) and the car does sound rough and do poor MPG when there's little oil in (but has always been sensitive to oil level).

I think Uncle Kev tried one of those engine oil additives but that didn't help....

As there are now three of us I'm going to write to BMW UK.  I don't expect anything other than "whatever" back from them but it's worth a go...

How much oil are you using?

I-11

You need to check the cylinder compressions and also see how much oil is sat in the inlet manifold.

If there is loads of oil sat in the manifold (need to remove to check ideally) then there is likely to be a high crankcase pressure and its blowing the oil out into the manifold.

If thats ok then the compression test of the cylinders will show you if its coming up past the rings.

The oil your putting in isnt so clever for the HVA's (hydraulic valve lifters) little bit to thick...and if any additives are used then go fo the Forte stuff as its pretty much the only add that does anything

i've had a compression test done recently, no problems, granted they couldn't get at the 6th (near windscreen) but the rest were fine, i know every car is different but when the engine m54 2.2 in our case is the same and the problem identical i would expect the solution to be, (it seems to be a problem for the m54 engine full stop) i haven't checked the manifold for oil, so basically if the compression test is ticked off the list and with the mountain of solutions I-11 has tried its down to crankcase pressure?

i'm using 5w-30 castrol edge since i bought the car nearly 2yr ago, it was burning 1ltr every 1000 - 1200 miles, prob 6mths ago after a service it started burning 1ltr every 600-700miles and now its down to 450miles, running well, see smoke at high revs alright, just a blow out if ya like, cleaning the pipes....

only problem i had with the initial service was i supplied the oil, 8ltrs, mech would always have left, left over oil in the boot, not this time, got me thinking he had put 8ltrs in, suppose i was just trying to figure out what could have been done diff....it doubled consumption after the service, is there a chance the excess caused the initial damage?

Forza, whats the solution to prevent the oil access the inlet manifold?

thanks for your help, i've searched this topic and there are more than 3, the engine is know for oil consumption but not 4-600miles a ltr.

Barry

I have seen a small number of m54’s burning oil due to bottom end wear. If as someone posted, using a heavier oil lowered the oil consumption then that would point to wear rather than a breathing problem.

Another point worth noting is that compression and oil usage can have nothing in common. Oil and compression rings on the pistons do two different jobs. It is quite possible to have worn oil rings with good compression.

Barry_Mc wrote: i'm using 5w-30 castrol edge since i bought the car nearly 2yr ago, it was burning 1ltr every 1000 - 1200 miles, prob 6mths ago after a service it started burning 1ltr every 600-700miles and now its down to 450miles, running well, see smoke at high revs alright, just a blow out if ya like, cleaning the pipes....

Spooky that.  I've been using the same oil since new in the car, regular services and FBMWSH.  Mine was the same about a ltr every 1200 miles.  I queried it with the supplying dealer in 2002 and they checked the car over and then said it was fine and in normal tolerance (which BMW claim is 1 ltr in 750 miles).  Then like you suddenly 1 ltr every 600ish miles down to 1 ltr every 400miles.

BMW had the manifold off to do the breather valve and it was clean.  They didn't test compression (as it was expensive job for them to do it and I don't know a good indie garage in Leeds and they reckoned with the car's history that shouldn't be the problem).

Originally wondered if an oil control ring had shed or failed.  I also wondered if the oil was getting too hot or if there is some way the engine could "suck up oil" when you lift the throttle - though as I said the manifold is clear (I'm told) and the breather valve replaced by BMW. 

I think it's defo the same thing though as the symptoms are spookily so the same and it seems peculiar to the M54 2.2's

I-11

autofix wrote: I have seen a small number of m54’s burning oil due to bottom end wear. If as someone posted, using a heavier oil lowered the oil consumption then that would point to wear rather than a breathing problem. Another point worth noting is that compression and oil usage can have nothing in common. Oil and compression rings on the pistons do two different jobs. It is quite possible to have worn oil rings with good compression.

Thanks for that - it's a good point.  So if it has a problem with oil rings, is it worth getting the engine in bits to try fix?  Or is it worth just putting a "cheaper" synth or semi synth in and running?

I'm going to change the oil as I'm not happy with the High Mileage stuff in there.

A thought but if the thick oil is not good around the valves, could the valve stem seals be the mode of entry of the oil into the cylinder?

Sorry if that's a stupid question and thanks to everyone contributing. Nice to know you're all out there!

I-11

Last one for now..

It's not just the 3 series M54's that have the problem.  Check out..

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23760 - http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23760

Also they sign to a thread on here where someone ended up finding it was valve seals - which rings a bit true with some of my symptoms - but make your mind up...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=404447&page=5 - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=404447&pag e=5

I-11

There's a half decent Indie near York, which isn't too far from leeds.

http://www.atlasautoservices.co.uk/ - http://www.atlasautoservices.co.uk/

I had an E39 530 with an M54 engine and that used a litre of oil every 1500-2000 miles.

Peter Fenwick wrote: There's a half decent Indie near York, which isn't too far from leeds. http://www.atlasautoservices.co.uk/ - http://www.atlasautoservices.co.uk/ I had an E39 530 with an M54 engine and that used a litre of oil every 1500-2000 miles.

Ta very much for the recommendation!

Individual_11 wrote: Also they sign to a thread on here where someone ended up finding it was valve seals - which rings a bit true with some of my symptoms -

But ring/bore problems give different symptoms to stem seals.

As far as I am aware the lads in the workshop in Quarry are well clued in. Any good mechanic should be able to diagnose stem seals. 

interesting links I-11, if i had the consumption levels of the lads in the first post xmas would have come early!!! the DIY guide in the second post is spot on, but i don't think i'll try it...lol, def one to be left to the experts i think...seems to be the fix, if the seal colours are correct then there is obv a flaw and it would be interesting to know which engine has the green or red seals?

i might change my oil to be honest, reading the 2nd post 5w-30 isn't up to the running temp of the m54, which 0w-30 and 5w-40 are, so i think as i'm due a service i might chance 5w-40, not 100% but i think majority of members use 5w-40, worth a try at least...might be a cheap fix, if i get back to 1000-1200 / ltr i'll be happy enough although my gut is telling me the damage has been done...

latest...checked the oil level last night, on the min mark, so i topped up today, 1 ltr, (which is exactly min to max) perfect, i'll admit i didn't check the level after topping up) basically had a bit of a hickup at some stage, reckon i was in too high a gear, accelerated, car choked for sec and ran on as usual, only time it missed a beat all day or any day for that, checked the oil level tonight, back to min....(i didn't buy invisible oil...hehehe, has me worried at this stage. no oil leaks by the way.

i rang an ex bmw mech to get a quote for valve seal replacement, he suggested relief valve (don't quote me there) that there is a good chance its clogged, different driving style to the previous owner would be the cause, mainly slower driving, i'd put it down to speed bumps if thats the case...(other than me...lmao), he has gone straight for that everytime and has sorted plenty of bm's with similar symtoms.

anyway, i'm trying to figure out....

1. what happened my oil?

2. how does the relief valve work?

3. as far as i know the valve is attached to the oil pump, where is that located?

4. and finally does the manifold have to come off to gain access?

thanks in advance,

barry

found this..

http://www.autohausaz.com/bmw-auto-parts/bmw-oil-pressure.html - http://www.autohausaz.com/bmw-auto-parts/bmw-oil-pressure.ht ml

good info, doesn't answer my q's...might be of interest.

thanks for that, Russ, i'd say your right, must be the scavenger valve he was talking about...i don't think you have to touch the heads to replace the valve seals. i tried to get a price for that job but i'd say if they can find a simpler solution with less effort they will, which makes sense i suppose. out of interest how much were you charged for the scavenger valve job, i was told 7hrs, (55e / hr) and i think the part is around 76e - 460e approx. (he didn't say 460, just 7hr job etc etc...

MBW1 - breather pipes, must have a look into that, only starting to get an idea of the inner workings.