Interesting stats at the link below.  It covers new reg's and imports for Jan-Feb and other car reg related statistics.  The interesting bit is stuck in the middle.  The notion that there is a flood on UK imports going on related to the exchange rate fluctuation seems to be knocked on the head.

Other than Q3, each quarter of 2008 was within about 100 of the import figures for the corresponding quarters of 2007.  Jan and Feb '09 don't seem hugely out of whack with the corresponding 2008 figures either.

In fairness, I suppose the import figures also need to be considered in terms of the stats for new car registrations during 2008 but that's a different story.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0313/newcars.pdf - http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0313/newcars.pdf

There's no account of the huge amount of imported cars that have never been reg'd. Within 500 metres of my house there are the following (all owned by Irish residents) which have been on yellow/other reg's for many months+....

Honda Accord, Honda NSX, VW Passat TDi x2, Volvo C70, Volvo S60, Audi TT(Polish reg'd for 3+ years) & a Ducati 999. I suppose if you can get away with it, then why not.....

my m3 is not regestered and its not going to be im not giving this government a penny for my car i got it in december

ps handa nsx must be nice to look at everyday

***Update***

Was chatting to the owner of the Volvo C70 this morning and low and behold the car has been confiscated by customs. A random C&E check on the Tuam Road in Galway and despite him having a UK licence (and accent !) it was confiscated straight away as they had said that they had seen the car around a number of times and that his excuse that he was "just visiting" didn't wash. Car was taken there & then (there were 2 other cars left unattended also at the side of the road, presumably also confiscated). He'd to walk a mile and a half in the rain to get a bus and now has to pay the VRT plus a €300 fine to get it back.....

I suspect we'll see more of these checkpoints (especially around industrial estates in the mornings) as the government clutch at straws & clamp down on all possible revenue generating means....

Joey wrote: my m3 is not regestered and its not going to be im not giving this government a penny for my car i got it in december ps handa nsx must be nice to look at everyday

I'd really hate to see that M3 confiscated. Really hate it.

keithc wrote: damen wrote: .....we pay the vrt when all the polish boyos head home buying nice bms for themselves and drive them erratically everywhere when they come back here no plates or god knows what else!absolute joke.... I'd love to see a crack down on polish/latvian eastern cars as they are plenty about. No road tax and insurance on them I'd say. It is an absolute joke.

They are starting to, I was pulled as I had a garage car with expired Tax on it, as I was waiting they called for a "meat wagon" iirc and the occupants (eastern european) had to get out of the car and they were impounding it, I could just about hear the convo between the Garda and the driver. Garda told the driver that this was the umpteenth time he was stopped in said ca and he never reregistered.

HEAR, HEAR nailik.

Joey go and be a responsible citizen and pay your tax!

Joey wrote: my m3 is not regestered and its not going to be im not giving this government a penny for my car i got it in december

To**er. You wont make many friends here.

keithc wrote: Joey wrote: my m3 is not regestered and its not going to be im not giving this government a penny for my car i got it in december So how do you insure it? And Tax it? What about the honest people who pay road tax etc? If I knew someone who brought in a car and didn't pay their taxes etc on it I'd report them.

i insured it with quinn direct and im not payin road tax and as for honest people payin road tax i have a mazda mps 2.3 litre best part of 800 euro road tax so i think that's enough right pal. u must be a good mate to have rattin on someone for nothing got to do with ya 

Joey wrote: your all entitled to your opinions but vrt is just the governments way of getting money off you if you shop outside ireland

Just as well they don't charge VRT on Mazda MPS's then..........

Dergside wrote: Joey wrote: your all entitled to your opinions but vrt is just the governments way of getting money off you if you shop outside ireland Just as well they don't charge VRT on Mazda MPS's then..........

m3 3.0 uk road tax 99 pound. irish road tax over 1000 euro someone try tell me thats not a ripp off or that im not making sense

Thats only one element of their tax regime. If we copied the whole lot how would you feel about paying for the water in your home or council tax? Its all very well to pick and choose different elements from their tax system but on the great scheme of things we may not do too well out of it. This isnt a dig at you but the grass isnt always green on the other side.

We have relatively low income tax levels here so the government have to get thier money some way - through stealth taxes such as VRT.

Joey wrote: vrt is a crime

Technically its not, even if its unpalatable. 

Tax evasion on the other hand is defnitely a crime.

This country will not miss your attitude when you move to the UK.

Indeed VRT is an unpalatable pain you're just going to have to suck it in and pay it. Insurance wouldn't go out the gate without it but motor tax i don't hold it in the same regard,(all my roadgoing motors are in tax btw) but I put it in the same league as the dog licence, currently Jess the Springer is a good 9 months out and I don't honestly think I'm going to back tax him or really loose to much sleep over it !!! 

The fact of the matter is tax evasion is a wide spread in Ireland, it just depends on what end of the scale your at 1,000,000s or Jess & I at €12.50, so I don't throw stones on the subject.

Dergside wrote: Joey wrote: vrt is a crime Technically its not, even if its unpalatable.  Tax evasion on the other hand is defnitely a crime. This country will not miss your attitude when you move to the UK.

they'll miss my road tax and vrt tax and my income tax i dont give a rats arse if you miss my attitude you'll live. ive never seen so many people with their head up their a**e in my life wake up lads your government is robbing you blind and you all seem happy to go along with it .

they'll miss my road tax and vrt tax and my income tax i dont give a rats arse if you miss my attitude you'll live. ive never seen so many people with their head up their a**e in my life wake up lads your government is robbing you blind and you all seem happy to go along with it .

[/QUOTE]

I wonder is it the recession or something thats affecting peoples attitudes lately. But ive noticed on other forums (forii??) lately that people are getting hot under the collar over little things. Disappointed its spread to here. Though the majority on here are level headed and able to debate and still stay composed.

Joey wrote: they'll miss my road tax and vrt tax and my income tax i

If your attitude to other taxes is consistent with your expressed attitude to VRT then I suspect that they may not miss it as much as they should.

Not having paid VRT on the M3, I doubt you are paying roadtax on it, either here or the UK

Lads keep it cool

@Ben fully agree with your coments on comunication on this board. Bad news on the water so as they will charge us from latest october onwards. My local CC told me they put meters in this sumer.

@ Joey well technicaly it is an illegal tax still if they catch you they will not give a hood about that argument of yours. Better to go elect you representation and get them to do their job.

@ all the rest with their Halo's

THis country has some strange double standard and I'm not talking about the irish and the "feckin foreigners" but just the irish. Someone can flaunt the tax laws and evade paying millions on tax and he is a hero in this land. Someone tries to evade a couple of 100s and all hell breakes loose. The economy goes down and suddenly it is the "eastern europeans" who fly in and out with cheap flights and cash in on social welfare payments? What about the irish doing just that in the UK? Maybe they (the eastern europeans) learnd from the best? And the Minister for this department found only a very small number of "non residents" actualy doing this but a massive number of parents for excample cashing in support they shouldn't get

Latest joke is that the garda chases painters and invades radio stations as the big heads didn't like an artists expression and in doing so make this thing go around the world. (Remember there is no bad publicity)

So are you are all saying that bankers and company guys are cool if they rip Ireland of (by evading taxes) and anyone else should shut up and do as they are told? ....

Maybe that is the attitude that allowed certain powers in this land to rip the whole nation of and destroy the future of generations to come. From my point of view this country changed alot in the last years and some of it for sure isn't good.

Just my two pence tho

chris

If a tax is illegal, fight it through the courts.

I choose to live in this country and in doing so agree to abide by its laws; i don't go on internet fora to flaunt the ones I don't.

If there are tax loop-holes that the wealthy can explore, it is up to our legislators to close them.

If you disagree with the laws of the land, elect somebody else to make them. If you can't vote here, like me, and you don't like it, go live somewhere else.

If there is nobody representing your view, stand in the next election and get people who agree with you to vote for you.

Just because some laws get broken does not give anybody carte blanche to break other laws.

Nobody does me any favours by not paying their tax; they just make my tax burden greater.

larzyh wrote: Nobody does me any favours by not paying their tax; they just make my tax burden greater.

Valid point Larzyh, I've tried to do all my shopping local in the belief it might in the long run save jobs while my neighbour(s) do a weekly commute to the north for goods. It's not illegal but is it patriotic???  

Curley wrote: larzyh wrote: Nobody does me any favours by not paying their tax; they just make my tax burden greater. Valid point Larzyh, I've tried to do all my shopping local in the belief it might in the long run save jobs while my neighbour(s) do a weekly commute to the north for goods. It's not illegal but is it patriotic???

Bit of both.

I don't agree with Joey's point as the loophole of getting insurance on UK plated cars is closing. (Think Quinn does a max of 2 weeks now) Feck the tax maybe - no insurance - no way. If you have a prank in your car you are in serious trouble and the financial burden could seriously hamper your future.

On the other hand as you Tom point out shopping here means only that the shops can still charge exorbitant prices, blaming cost bla bla bla bla. Nothing will change. One has to have some empathy for Joey's view point seeing that there are really far bigger issues at stake at the moment. Shops have to cop on and prices have to come down for people to be able to take less pay etc not the other way round as this would never happen

Some business are trying, vat isn't helping in the south and I'd say border countys are feeling it big time. We've come a long way from axe-the-tax regime of the early 80s but I can't do the halo attitude to not paying road tax considering in the past I've being a offender myself. 

In the end there's an odds on chance Joey will get caught by customs and will have to face the consequences, but you're right Chris there are really far bigger issues at stake at the moment.    

I am not sure which "far bigger issues" people are talking about.

If it is the fact that the country is on the verge of bancruptcy, then please explain to me how people dodging tax is not part of that issue.

Maybe a venture into maths might help. Lets say there are 1.5 mio cars and 10%wouldn't pay their tax then this  still only makes a whole of 150mio if we asume that they are all fairly big engined cars and average 1000€ tax per vehicle. This sum amounts to 3 days cost of runing the state, less then 10 severage payments to fat cats and it is less then the tax U2 evaded by relocating to the Netherlands. If you cant see the big issue maybe Specsaver can help or a hearing aid. No offence meant.

On the 7. of April the hammer will drop and you will see what I mean. Crux is that in a time of decline of jobs, income from stocks and falling asset prices, 10Billion are taken out of the economy by a government that has no vision. Hence they take it from "ordinary people". Theese are the ones that believed in the stories from bankers et al and bought everything on borrowed funds. I know alot of people that pay more then 1500€ a month just to service their loans. Fuel, insurances school fees and food all came up in prices so even the interest rate fell they still have less money already. So now they get hammered by aforementioned 10 Billion cuts and in the same time have to take pay cuts as all the cutting changes nothing in say competitivness, the bad exchange rate, loss of tourism an so on and so forth.

You realy cant see the bigger issues? Wait till April und you will 

I didn't say I couldn't see the bigger issues; I said I was not sure which ones you were on about.

If 10% of people don't pay tax the remaining 90% will have to make up the shortfall. That's also maths.

Which 10% is it that you propose should be allowed not to pay tax? The "ordinary people" who overextended their credit in the boom years; the property developers, maybe? 

Neither of them but neither should it aply to bankers, politicians, horse breaders, musicians and artists or big companies.

Lets face it a Teasoch with the highest salary as a leader in the world and anyone of them getting a pension even so they are still working, or banking control personell that f*** up and getting paid big bucks for it do absolut nothing for the moral. Moral is something that is realy lacking here lately, same for comunity sence, or emphathy for the elderly, and less well off's. If that would change then people like Joey might be less inclined to evade vrt/tax.

Will they change this? I have my doubts that this will happen without an election, or a change in governance laws. E.g. in germany the lading parties need a two thirds majority for things like the budget so no ruber stamping here. Or what about that a party member who votes against his party is automaticly sacked from it. What form of democracy do you think comes from that. They have a position of "Chief Whip" for heavens sake why are we surprised that in this country they make politics for themselfes and their friends.

I realy don't wanna go their any longer as it realy f***es up my day. I spent a fortune on inward investment in this country and by the looks of it might well have to start up again somewhere else just because of stupid decisions and greed and golden circles.

beemerchris wrote: 10Billion are taken out of the economy by a government that has no vision. Hence they take it from "ordinary people".

Chris, just who do you think is going to foot the bill if this 10 billion is borrowed, serviced and repaid? 

Unless I'm missing something, its the ordinary people.

Also, I'd like to pick up on the statement that you, and others, made about VRT being an illegal tax.  There have been court cases up to the level of the European Court of Justice about it and unless I've missed something then they haven't found it illegal.  But lets not let that get in the way of a good soundbite.

I'm not a fan of VRT and I've paid a good chunk of it over the years.  True, it is more than an unhappy coincidence that VRT was introduced at just the same time that Excise duties were being phased out.  However, the government is entitled to introduce taxes as it sees fit (if you disagree with any of them, use your democratic privileges to bring about change).  Europe has dictated the situation re. excise duties on inter-community movement of goods and the government has removed them.

Please, someone, show how VRT is an illegal tax - proof, rather than hearsay, hysteria or personal opinion.......

Also, just something to bear in mind:

Tax avoidence - legal - organizing your assets, income, consumption, etc. in a way that is effective in reducing or minimizing your tax bill.

Tax evasion - illegal - deliberately misrepresenting your assets, income, consumption, etc. to defraud the exchequer.

beemerchris wrote: Moral is something that is realy lacking here lately, same for comunity sence, or emphathy for the elderly, and less well off's. If that would change then people like Joey might be less inclined to evade vrt/tax.

And which put upon social minority does Joey belong to that gives rise to his legitimate anger and defiance?

Is there any chance that maybe, just maybe, he lacks empathy or morality, in the same way as the you suggest politicians, bankers and property developers do?

Mike Ryan wrote: As they get less from the sale of new cars that fall in to the low co2 tax bands, they will make up the difference by raising the contributions that will have to be made by owners of cars with high co2 emissions.

The issue of falling VRT tax take from new cars is twofold, consumers have voted with their feet when buying new and the impact of the general economic climate.

Pushing the only higher rates of VRT up will force more people in to the market to ditch the bigger stuff and buy low emissions vehicles, and thus make that aspect of the situation worse.  Given that the only volume of sales is in the low emission section increasing this will yield revenue.  I suspect that they will force up all VRT and road tax rates to maintain the relative difference between the "green" end of the scale and the higher rates.  I can't see the Green party allowing a change that would undermine the environmental aim of the new VRT scheme.  Its one of the few real policy influences they have had in government.

Oh for Christ Sake

@Dergside

I remember you as being a sound and intelligent person and as such you surely understand the whole idea of Europe and the free movement of goods. So with this in mind the whole issue of it being illegal becomes self-explanatory (spelling?). The person I know who brought this to court in Europe was an Austrian I worked with and guess what he was right. As far as i understand it if you own a vehicle already for 6month and lived outside of Ireland VRT does not apply. However it is difficult to proof and if you have an Irish bank acc or paid any PRSI in this period you wont get this option.

You state that states introduce tax villy nilly as they see fit and you are right with that and yep some are illegal. The Germans for example have a special tax on foreign bubbly (Champagne and Proseccos) total illegal but still done. In the bigger picture of Europe this is a non issue as it isn't important enough. I paid VRT so I followed the rule (sort of) even so I only life here but work in the UK and in Mainland Europe at the moment. My main issue with this s the ISMI sets the OMSP and this is a total scam. I suggest you google the report on "Friendly Corruption" done from the EU and read what they say about Ireland.

Spending allot of time with EU clients you would be surprised about the damage to the image of Ireland currently developing. I' sure you can imagine at least 5 reasons for this.

On the subject of doing it right. I'm a registered voter in this country and up till last year planned to apply for full Irish citizenship but the resent development and two racist attacks I had made me put this on hold. So I go voting but in this country this is all a bit of a choke (see my previous post on majorities etc)

You comment to tax organization/avoidance etc. If you are a citizen of the USA for example you pay a baseline of tax regardless of where your life and work. If you don't like it well then just get the new citizenship and give back you US one. On a similar line how do you reckon does what you say fit into the equality that people here think is so important. How do joe blokes (and probably Joey) organize their assets in that way that their spouse liefs in e.g. Italy or Portugal. I bet with you that they did not pay the Italian tax rate either as that would be substantial higher. Or in case of the "famous" U2 when Bono has the cheek to run around and "bangs some lids" but himself is a tax evading scumbag in his own country?

Can you really not see why people like Joey or the over 100tsd public service workers that went demonstrating get fed up by this total hypocrisies. You are right the financing of borrowing 10billion would be crippling but why is it that the interest rate is is high? .....

Could go on for ever but I'm sure you get the idea if you wanna see it.  

Sure, there are a lot of serious problems in this country at the moment and it seems that the only thing that varies is the depth of sh1* that we are in.  There is also an awful lot of crap being talked as well (in general, in the media, etc.).  There is also a lot of anger, but a lot of the basis for the anger, in the media, is ill-informed, naive and giving rise to mass hysteria.

We can either huddle together and stoke up the anger about the level of crap we find ourselves in (either personally or collectively) or we can get over ourselves and try to climb out of the crap.  That requires realism and will require blood, sweat and tears by many.  Anger will not change the fact that taxes will need to rise, living standards are going to fall, services will suffer, people will lose jobs, etc.  It also means that we have to get over the mock indignation we have about how everyone should make sacrifices, but moan about the first one that affects us personally.

For those that have done wrong on the way in to this situation (I include the politicians, the bankers, the developers and the naive individuals that thought the only way was up and that the good times would never end), they will eventually get what they are due - good, bad or indifferent, in this life or another.

In the meantime, Bono is tax compliant I am reasonably sure.  He may have interests in businesses that have set up tax residence in other juristictions but these are seperate legal entities to him and there is nothing illegal in what has been done.  We need to be careful of taking the high moral ground on that one.  These businesses have done nothing different to what thousands of other businesses have done by moving their tax residence TO Ireland.  We would lose far more than we would gain by stirring up that hornets nest.

So, we have a choice, either wallow in the crap while things go down the plughole or get over ourselves, roll up our sleeves and get stuck in to getting on with what has to be done.  So which category are we each in?

I'm for getting on with it.

beemerchris= head screwed on. spot on with everypoint you've made

dergside your living in the clouds man the sooner you realise your being robbed blind everytime you buy something the better off you'll be. (not trying to sound smart or cheeky just my opinion)

found this on the net

This current form of taxation has come under pressure from a number of areas. The fact that both VAT and VRT are charged on newly registered vehicles in Ireland has been the bone of much contention, both locally and at a European level. The European Commissioner for Customs and Excise has expressed concerns to the Irish Government, over the VRT on new and second-hand imported vehicles, commenting on the excessive levels of motor taxation on Irish citizens. Article 25 of the http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/treaties/dat/12002E/htm/C_2002325EN.003301.html - Treaty of Rome , which governs the European Union, prohibits customs and excise duties and charges having equivalent effect.

Erh, no Joey - the very nature of tax removes any voluntary aspect; it's an obligation.

While sceptical about anything "found on the net", even the piece you've posted makes no mention of illegality in relation to these laws.

It doesn't matter how you try to justify or cloak it, if you refuse to pay your car tax; you're not a freedom-fighter, you're not Robin Hood and your actions are contrary to the common good; you're a tax-cheat.

Joey wrote: This current form of taxation has come under pressure from a number of areas.

But where has it been found to be illegal, either in terms if Irish or EU law?  Which court has ruled on it? 

If none has then your assertion of illegality is merely personal opinion.  You are clearly entitled to that opinion but that doesn't make it right.

Joey:

I wonder how long the Revenue will take to track down a E36 M3 Cabrio Cosmos Black in Dublin with yellow plates and no tax disc?

You're a very foolish man to brag on the internet about your illegal tax-dodging. Very foolish indeed.

Press Statement from Revenue today:

Revenue crackdown on VRT offences in border counties

The Revenue Commissioners have commenced a major national crackdown on VRT offences. Customs checkpoints, principally in border counties and major urban areas, have commenced this week in an operation which will continue for some time. The major focus of the blitz is VRT evasion through the use of foreign registered number plates.

"We maintain a focus on VRT offences throughout the year but at regular intervals we undertake 'blitz' style operations which are high visibility" said Revenue Commissioner Liam Irwin. "The focus of this specific campaign is Irish residents illegally driving foreign registered cars. The rules are very clear and people who attempt to evade VRT will face the consequences", he warned.

Last year Revenue challenged 23,986 vehicles and 1,589 cars were seized for VRT offences."

Good on them. This country is on its knees financially. Any measures to increase revenue are to be welcomed.  

To all the VRT crooks out there, if you dodge tax, you are cheating yourself and cheating your country.

Next time you go into A&E and have to wait 12 hours or get battered on the street because the Garda overtime bill has been slashed or have to send your kids to a school with 40 kids per teacher, I hope you remember that.

If you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the car. Simple.

nailik wrote: Last year Revenue challenged 23,986 vehicles and 1,589 cars were seized for VRT offences."

That tells me that only 6.6% of foreign reg'd vehicles on our roads are being driven illegally, no ?