Hi people,

A warning to all you guys who may be thinking of taking your car to Chandlers BMW.

I had an ins 2 done on my 328 sport, it came back with a couple of things not major but then they phoned me during the day and said that one of my rear springs had gone and did i want the work done. I said NO as i thought the spring were fine.

Anyway....took my car to Nissan (friend) down the road from me to take a look at the rear springs and guess what. Nothing wrong with them.

I'm going to call chandlers to speak with the servicing manager about this. I didnt think BMW were like that????!!!!!!

Darren

Hi Darren

Have you spoke to the dealer yet?

keep us posted

Take it to Munich's!

When i lived in brighton and called Chandlers for an inspection on my e30 M3 they didn't know what i was talking about!

When i explained what an e30 was they then asked me why i wanted them to service a car which would be worth less than the servicing costs!

Stealers do not like working on anything older than their current models.  I am sure this is why they do things that then annoy the hell out of you so you then don't take the car back to them.

kevin wrote: I haven't found that to be the case with my local dealer. They are very happy to work on both of mine and know me well now. Guess I'm lucky

Where do you go? Very lucky!

kevin wrote: I have used Baron's of Farnborough for over 3 years now. Before that I used Robert Stern at Evesham, but that was just for the M5.

I think that if you use a dealer regularly and have done so for a while you can build up a rappour with them and thigs go swimingly; your car gets serviced properly and you get treated like a human being!

Stealers now though don't seem to be interested in building up a rappour with new potentillay lucrative clients.

I want to get my E30 M3 serviced.  I will probably buy another BMW in the future, more than likely a newer model than the one i have now so i should therefore be a potentially viable source of new business for them.

But no, my car is too old to be taken seriously, when at the end of the day it is the reason behind stealers lucrative M power sales and parts sales - we all know a widget for a normal bmw costs pence, but one for an m car costs pounds!

They are not interested in the long term customer, just ripping the short term customers off.  My own experiences of stealer in ipswich demonstrated that, a new steering rack required and front wishbones when only two eccentric bushes and an inner wishbone bush were required.  Rack is perfect.  But the stealer missed the inner wishbone bushes and said that i needed to replace the whole wishbone as the reaer bushes were worn.

My probelm is, where else do i take the car?  Do i travel hundreds of miles in a round trip for a service and be without a car for that time and take time off work to take and collect the car when all the work should be in the remit of my local stealer.

Name and shame: yes!

But can't we do something about their attitude to the older models as all we will achieve is a lsit of all the franchised stealers who treat us like second class citizens who know nothing; "if the technician says the spring is broken then it is broken!"

What happened to the customer?  Are we just there to be fleeced by these people or serviced by these people?

Can we mention the dealers we get good service from too?

I use Trainers in Swansea for my 13 yr old Sport, and have had a very good service so far. Last service they only picked up on a slight engine oil leak, and one of my fog lights was steamed up.

Good prices too bearing in mind I ain't got an M car! Car also gets a free wash and vac!

I've no problem in giving my input.

Sounds a great idea.

Best thing to do is arrange for the dealer to show you this 'broken spring'. But bear in mind that the broken coil is at the bottom on the E36 and can be hard to spot - a well versed BMW mechanic would know what to look for but a Nissan Spannerman might not.
If they decline to show you where the broken bit is, complain to BMW GB by e-mail along with the letter to trading standards that you have prepared.
Watch the snotty ******** jump!

Good dealers: Bridgegate in both Chesterfield and Derby. Veeeery sympathetic towards older cars. 01246 208681

Bunch of ******s: Godfrey Hall (both of them) for crap used cars.

Edited to remove objectionable language, please read the forum guidelines 

steve1 wrote: Can someone put this under a " Important topic " heading and then people can put the names in, no more, no less.

Edited to remove objectionable language, please read the forum guidelines

Gentlemen

Although an emotive topic, would some of you please mind your language.

We  (the forum) have been down this road before, I wanted a recommended page where we could list all the good people we come across.

In these litigious days it seems difficult, as just because I say joe bloggs is good, you may find him not to be.

We also have to be careful regarding the citisism we allow on here, what would be your reaction, for example, if someone from the dealer you dont like read this, and decided to sue the club ?

Again, this has been discussed before, its a tricky area, I'm just asking for caution.

Personally, I'd be straight onto bmwgb to get this resolved.

As I said in previous post, a simple list of dealers or garages that you are happy with, no comments, good or bad, this way no one should take offence and want to sue anyone, be it the club or the person, after all, we are only trying to compile a list of recommended people and not the ones you would not recommend. Then if people are made aware of this info they would simply look to see which one best suits them and get in touch with these places and make there own mind up, this is what most of us do anyway, the list would just be helping you locate a recommended garage in your area. If for some reason you have had a bad experience with a particular garage then I am sure there are ways to let people know privately and not post for everyone to see and risk upsetting the wrong person.

Anyway after all that, is the list the way to go, if so then can someone set it up, strict rules must apply of course.

I'll try again, but it seems to be a legal minefield, so dont hold you breath lol.

There is a link to the forum guidelines just above the forums on the main page, for anyone that hasnt found them.

David 87M3 wrote:

Is someone trying to get their post numbers up?!!

Hey Senny,

I'm based near tunbridge wells. I took my old and highmilage e28 to the dealers in Sevenoaks. I couldn't recomend them more. nice guys .give em a bell before you go and explain why you are booking it with them instead of Chandlers.

jon

Im sure a good barrister could push its way through this without difficulty.

The message may be written by a forum member but it is still held on the BMW CC website. If a barrister is wanting to sue they would pursue the larger purse, i.e. the club.

Anything can be challenged in law.

We have to do whatever is necessary to protect the club and its members from any kind of litigation. If a forum member posts a message which could be defamatory then that forum member is primarily responsible (as per the guidelines). However, if the aggreived party pursued it further then they could legally challenge the forum owners - the club - as the defamatory article was held on their property and there was no attempt to reveal the truth, etc..

You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this forum and their agents with respect to any claim based upon any post you may make

Fair enough, but this only really prevents the poster of a message from sueing the club if he gets sued by a company for saying they do a useless service and the owner's a " ************ "; or from deferring blame to the club for encouraging him or whatever.

On the other hand if the same comapny decides to sue the club there's not a lot anyone can do about it, especially with regard to dislaimers. i think as far as the law stands, any organisation that publishes information on the www remains responsible for its content; ie a newspaper, a forum etc, they're effectively all the same. Actual ISPs get off a bit lighter as they don't publish as such; they just provide a means of doing so - there's no "editorial" influence, no moderation, no selection or filtering. once you start cutting bits out, you assume responsibility for everything that gets through, and there's the distinction.

Steve1 See my previous post.

Jon

I know what to do. As ****** is an anagram of Newark, how about...............

Edited to remove objectionable language, please read the forum guidelines

hey senny

 chandlers are a funny bunch of people , sometimes you can go in there and the staff will be enthusiastic and REALLY helpfull , other times they can be downright rude and sarcastic . chandlers angmering are probably worse than brighton !!

 as far as the whole liable thing is concerned i think we need to be carefull as a club !!   if  any negative comments are posted on here are proved untrue , the person on the receiving end of the could blame the club , and sue , not to mention the bad reputation for us !!

 if however you can prove 110% that your statement is true , i dont think there is anything a body can do in legal terms !!

 senny , when you get your springs off and find they are totally fine , post up some pics so we can all see  . Maybee then the mods on here could find there way to providing the "good dealer - bad stealer " forum or sticky ,  and make it one of those things that can only be posted on after mods have cast there eyes over each negative post ?????

 £ook me , i just come over all sensible ,  "pipe n slippers anybody?"

B 7 VP wrote: Thats just the point, If its on a Recommend list its up to each person to decide for themself.If its NOT on the list --WHY ???. So the Good get the biz, and the others get the Questions??No Writs for the Club, just Service !!.

I remember suggesting this several months ago, and you, Killian,Duncan and I had a brief chat about it.

At the time you,  Killian, and Ducan were against it, purely because of the legal issues, although you all thought it was a good idea.

If thats changed, then lets look at it again.

Have to say when I saw this thread and read Chandlers I was surprised. When I lived in Munich I bought an old 325i cabrio automatic and drove it to the UK for fun. On the way, brake pad light came up. Chandlers outside Eastbourne, took car straight in, Saturday morning, diagnosed it as a fault sender. Changed it, cleaned car, (twas filthy after a drive through germany, Luxembourg etc), and returned it for £37 pounds. I sat in comfort whilst it was done and it didn't take long. They and their staff were excellent, (no affiliation by the way).

Current dealership in Bristol also friendly and efficient - just more expensive now I have the 330

You get good and bad - bad get trashed and never visited again. Good rarely get publicised.

Just my halfpenny.

Thanks Bodgit, now we have a dam good example of how things can go wrong, and how a dealer, or any other businesss could get very very upset at being critised in a public forum.

Especially a BMW dealer that gets critised on a forum that displays the BMW logo.

I dont for a moment doubt sennys experience, but I'm not sure how we could deal with this.

Duncans discount list was very different and just factual, do they offer discount to club members ( as they are supposed too ), or dont they.

Horsetan or jonners, you reading this ?

Any comments ?

 As has been posted, one persons good experience with a dealer, can turn out to be anothers bad visit.So what do you do if a good becomes a bad?Do you give stars 1-5, and downgrade if bad reports?Who will keep this list updated?.Who will decide if a particular grievence is correct, sometimes the owner doesnt complain or talk to the service manager, Before leaving the Dealers.Ask to see the Dealer Principal, the buck stops with him.No luck??, So now its Bracknell Customer Relations, who have a zone manager to deal with a dispute.Dealers have a Contract with BMW GB, includes providing a Service, So if you dont get it, Complain.

NO dealer Discounts for Members, are cast in stone.Each dealer has the choice to give or not.Most want you to go back as a regular client, so ask for them.

Wow, this is a subject which has a few people fired up.

My first comment is that a broken spring is not always easy to spot. One of the back springs on my car had snapped and it was only when the spring was removed that it was spotted. This was because only the top two coils had broken off and it could not easily be seen with the spring in place.

Second point is, as long as you stick to facts and not opinions then no one can get sued. For example senny could say:

'dealer diagnosed broken rear spring although a Nissan dealer could find nothing wrong. Dealer then replaced the rear springs and gave me the old ones they had removed.......'

This kind of thing is fine because all you are doing is relaying facts which cannot be disputed. However what you can't say is:

'Don't use them. They're a bunch of cowboys who dilliberately told me there was something wrong with my car in order to rip me off'

This kind of comment could get you and the club taken to court for slander. Don't forget that even if it is true you will have to prove it in a court of law. This will not only be expensive but it will do nothing for the relationship between the club and BMW dealers.

Killain, I agree. Probably not worth going down this line. More trouble than it is worth. After all news papers employ legal people to check over what they write just in case, and even then they still get dragged through the courts

Its a great pity, but it seems to be heading the same way as last time it was discussed.

As far as moderators checking the posts first....we arent legal people, and are still open to getting it wrong.

Steve

Perhaps a contacts list ??

Nigel, do you mean a dealer contact list, name and area they are in, if so then this is what most people would want, but we still need to feed this through someone so as 1) It could be posted, 2) no adverse comments made, 3) no legal mess, If this is what you are suggesting then I'm up for it, what do you other guys think, remember we've been through all the negative stuff, how about some positive comments, ( It's been a long and sometimes interesting thread, but about time it was put to bed ).

                             Thanx, steve.

Ok Steve

I'd be up for sorting it out, but I would like to go further than a dealer list, useful as that is.

I'd go for anything to do with our cars, dealers, independant specialists, dam good ordinary garages, wheel refurbishers, interior refurbishers, audio & navigation equipment, scrap yards ( or second hand parts dealers ), second hand car sales that are known to sell good bmws, plus anything else you lot can think of.

But.......... absolutely NO comments, Just the business name, a contact name, a telephone number, and what benefits ( if any ) they would be prepared to give bmwcc members, I'd have to contact each one as they were suggested to get the last bit.

If people think this is a good idea, I'll suggest it to Howard and Killian, any final decision has to rest with them.

This whole thing would have to be information only, with present thoughts on this subject it couldnt be seen as a recommendation page, just forum members pasing contacts to each other.

B 7 VP wrote:  Yes, nearly there.

What extra would you add John ?

will do!

[edit] thoughts below added

Shows the 'influence' that can be got from a thread like this - there are 1190 views of this thread & 66 (incl. this) replies to the original message.
Im sure Chandlers, like every other place may make the odd error, etc. but their reputation should not be swayed on the basis of one experience.

What people need to know are the consistent offenders. I had thought that the 'contacts list' could contain comments, both good and bad, but as everyone knows, there would be 10 bad comments for each good one (as most good work goes unrewarded!). This is why maybe a voting system could be better. Everyone could vote for somewhere (just once) based on their forum username. Places could then be rated on a star system (like the stars for the amount of forum posts. However, you still run the risk of good work going unmentioned and everyone either having no votes or bad votes.

Alternatively, we could just list 'agencies' by region (all / wessex / scottish / etc.) & by type (repairs / parts / books / etc.) and if people want to get an opinion on them they ask here.

Any other ideas?
K.

I think to compile an accurate list of people that offer a service to the "M" owner, be it, servicing, parts, bodywork, interior, alloys etc etc, is going to take some time, whoever takes this on is going to have to contact all the various places suggested and find out exactly what they do offer and to get an idea if they do know what they are talking about, and any deals that are available to club members, so maybe this is something that could go into the club magazine once it's been compiled, at least this way you would have it to hand if you needed to contact anyone, I take it everyone keeps there mags like me, just a thought.

I still think It's a good idea, but It has to be done correctly. Enough babbling.

                                              Thanx, steve.

I'm almost with you Howard, but to be honest we can look in the phone book for a list of dealers.

I was thinking more along the lines of anything to do with our cars on a regional basis, bmwcc regions.

These are only my thoughts, but, a nominated person ( I was offering myself as both a club member and a moderator, but you could have one for each region ), supplies an e-mail address.

Anyone from the forum/club can contact the nominated person with a suggested "contact", giving company name, service provided, a telephone number and contact name.

The nominated person then contacts the company suggested, gets permision for them to be listed on here and any possible benefits to club members ( discounts etc ).

The nominated person could then update the list.

We would then have a list by region of where you could get your car serviced, repaired, painted, good value tyres, interior repairs, etc etc

It would take time to get going, but I think would be worth it, and it could also include main dealers nominated by members.

I'm dubious of a star rating system, the list is only supposed to be for information.

You could also list the person that suggested the "contact", that way if anyone wanted more information, they could contact the person recommending the service directly on here, via pm.

Nigel/Howard, I can see both systems working, one point is that you need to set a standard, both for the questions asked and for the replies recieved, so maybe if it were down to one person asking the questions you would get a totally nuetral feedback, you could still have the person making the recommendation giving his/her veiw, then this is simply followed up by the person asking the questions. Don't forget that maybe just because a person has used a particular place a few times, that they might get different treatment to a new customer, so this is why I suggested a more nuetral view.

Maybe just kick it off and see how it starts to look, I'm sure people will let you know, in a constructive way, what they think.

                                         Thanx, steve.

sorry to butt in gents , but how about -----(deep breath)

 if your gna go to the trouble of listing dealers on OUR club , how about getting them to either :-

 get involved in the club discount scheme if not allready , that way when a member uses em they know they are dealing with a genuine bmw enthusiast , MIGHT stop any questionable servicing requirements as they MIGHT realize they run the risk of a question mark over their name !!??

or ,,,,  See if the dealers would be interested in inviting the club to any open days or shows they get involved in ? that way members can get to meet staff and create a good relationship between the dealers and members ! as most of the MEMBERS  on here are not of the boy racer type ( i said MOST !! cough cough ) so behaviour isnt an issue !!

 i just think either would be a good way of giving the good (genuinely interested) dealers a chance to have their name on the RECOMENDED list ???

 after all these cars are more than just our transport arent they !!!

 Now WE are getting closer!!Each Regional services list Rep, collects the regions opinion Ratings from the members in that region.A standard for Question/Answer has to be set. That Region is responsable for its listing, if there is a problem with a services issue, they sort it out and advise Main Services manager(Nigel).Only the Regional Rep and team have the Knowledge to decide ,on its members experiences of service.No listings unless an owner has received and paid for services.

Nigel advises Data base of additions or deletions , and advises on system running.supervise the collection of the information.

The Dealers relationship with members is as complex as this issue.Some see the benifits, and welcome members with discounts and support in lots of positive ways .The adopt -A -Dealer scheme which means a member in a region , calls on a regular basis to their local dealer and refills a Club Membership holder, and has a chat to ask if we can do anything to assist etc, this operates over 90% of the country.To some dealers its of no interest, so we support those whom support us.Each dealer is free to decide their own policy to the club, BMW GB have No power to insist the dealer does or Not.GB Do see the benifits, and support the Club in Many ways and promote us within the dealership world.An active Club Life with positive publicity, all helps Our world go around.This does not mean we should not be working to improve our dealer relationship even stronger , all the time.Invitation for local Dealer staff to attend an event, could help to improve contacts.As the Car market gets more competitive , our value as a BMW Club increases in the Sales Departments.

Daddy Cool

Although discount is important, its not the be all and end all of everything.

If someone wants to list a dealer that doesnt give bmwcc discount then I think thats fine, as the service is obviously worth the listing in that members opinion.

We should get it going first, then see how its goes.

This is for our benefit, not the companys concerned.

I can remember owning my first bmw and thinking where do I get this, where do I get that etc , who can service it without taking it to a main dealer etc.

Howard

The main reason for suggesting a nominated person was to keep control of items posted, maybe your system is better but... I'd suggest the posts  are checked first before they are added to the list, it enables spelling ( not that important really), language, and content to be checked first, rather than us " dealing " with any issues afterwards.

This forum is about the best I've ever seen for control over language and offensive comments, but where we are dealing with companies I just thought caution would be good, some of them are large and powerful.

I also thought it would be polite to get permission from the company that we are listing, it may seem more proffesional, and lead to a better car club/company relationship.

It may also please the club officials, and encourage them to print it in the mag, and therefore give the non forum members a chance to benefit from the list, as well as getting their favourite contacts listed by contacting the club office.

 Phil, the point of saying +++++ is a great service, and 3 days later, you get a ++++++ are the biggest!!!!.If its on the list, its ok, if we get a few !!!!!! , its gone from the list.if its not on the List WHY??.The Regions know their service suppliers best, so they are the deciders.

Agree about a discount, but shows a willingness to want your Biz, and you to return to them.

its funny, Chandlers have serviced my e30 m3 for the last 4 years(previous owner).

Rags