Just read the April issue of "Fast Road & Track Car" magazine, which has a detailed description of fitting a M50 intake manifold and larger bore TB to the 328's M52. http://www.fastroad-mag.com/ - http://www.fastroad-mag.com/

Looks very interesting, and the dyno plots they show indicate decent bhp AND torque increases. The parts were sourced from Alpine527, I recall seeing his name elsewhere on this forum.

Two details bothered me though: firstly, the dyno run for the standard car was done with an air temp of 10 degrees. The run for the modified engine was done at 5 degrees. Secondly, the restrictive gauze within the MAF sensor housing was removed for the modified run. Not exactly fair, surely ?

That said, it looks like a simple conversion using standard (or at least standard-looking) parts. I'm seriously interested in this, but will need to find out whether my 328 automatic is compatible.

The magazine - as usual - omitted any details of how the modified car drives after the work was done. Anyone here done it ?

HF

There is a guy who uses this forum username Barf who has fitted these in conjuction with a cat back exhaust, induction kit and chip. He says his car makes about 230bhp. Why not send him a personal message.

hello everybody,barf here... short for barford! the feature in fast road & track day was actually me! fame at last eh. the dyno runs where about 12 months apart. the first when the superchip was fitted and the second obviously after the conversion.

now to answer some questions about the conversion.

1st, the car had fitted a miltek cat back system, greencotton air filter and with chip upgrade produced 208.5 bhp@ 5610rpm. the air temp, well i cant really answer that one ( i'm no boffin) but the gauze was removed to aid air flow through the system. apparently, the m3 system runs without a gauze fitted and so it seemed ok to go ahead with this mod. this detail is mentioned in the fitting instructions supplied by ALPINA 527

the car runs as normal now but at first, the idle took its time to settle properly but that only lasted a few days. the motor runs great and feels especially strong all the way to the redline. any body at Rockingham last month will have seen that this car is not to be overlooked!

one thing though, i have noticed a dip in ecconomy, returning around 260 miles per £40 of unleaded.

if anybody wishes to Know more, then send me a pm with your tel number, and i will get back to you

regards, barf

Barf - thanks for posting, it was a great feature, and I was well pleased to actually find the mag in the shops this month !

Think I'll be removing the gauze on my 328, already got a panel filter installed. Will seriously consider the manifold swap once cash allows.

HF

my mate adie was well chuffed to see his balding scalp in print!

he wanted to get his new snap-on roll-cab in the shots. it cost him £6500.....................for a fffffffffffff..........flamin toolbox. no wonder his hourly rate has gone up!

anyhow, glad you liked the feature, the cars not what you'd call "concours" but hell, if i spent a mint tarting it up, i'd be worried taking it out anywhere

would i recommend (how do you spell "recommend") the conversion?

       OHH YES!

   JUST CANT STOP THRASHING THE ER... PANTS OFF IT

GLAD YOU LIKE THE MAG. BARTON (THE EDITOR,PUBLISHER AND OWNER) IS A TOP BLOKE. NOT MET HIM YET, BUT NEXT TIME HE'S UP OUR WAY,WE'LL SHOW HIM THE SIGHTS OF SUNNY BURNLEY. WE'LL BE WELL P----D BY THEN, THEN ROUND TO BIBI'S FOR A KEBAB.    NICE.

ERM, yes (he says sheepishly) am i in trouble?

also, some low life raided my garage last night, and thouhgt it necessary to haul my track day wheels, moutain bike and numerous other bits & bobs up and over the bonnet, roof and boot area! as you can imagine,   N8 ARF looking a little sorry at the moment. a quote for the bonnet alone was £300. im not looking to make a claim on the insurance, so i will have to dig deep and fund the repairs myself. and as for the wheels, there not covered on the household or the car policy. might give motorsport wheels a call................. always fancied some BBS LE-MANS!

Hi There.

I am pleased to see that my conversion is getting some recognition. It really is the best thing that you can do to a 328 or 323 to gain some real horsepower. The standard engine is restricted to 193bhp because of the German insurance regulations.

This kit will release the power that the 328 was designed to put out. (about 220bhp)

Fuel economy should be no different to the standard engine once the ecu has settled down (unless you thrash it}

Feel free to email me if you need more info. I would also like to know if anyone is selling an old 2.5 litre M50 manifold. They need extensive modification to fit, so don't think you can just bolt one on. I can also sell you the throttle body on it's own if required.

Wasn't there a forum comment a few months back concerning the reason for the guaze meshes in the AFM ?

I seem to remember it mentioned the guaze was there to protect the engine from sucking in lumps of the metering film if the AFM went bang.

Just a thought for the tuners out there.

Andy  (Harbinger of Doom)   West Midlands





http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb028">

The gauze in the airflow meter is so course that I doubt removing it makes much difference to the airflow anyway.

i had a look through the schnitzer brochure today, and they offer essentially exactly what ALPINA527 is doing. they quote an increase of 25 bhp over standard. i did'nt get a price though, but knowing schnitzer, it will not be cheap. their kit is available for 328 and is also featured on their 3.2 conversion. (this 3.2 conversion is based on the M52 328). im not sure if they modify the throttle body. as for my car, it seems to be getting better on fuel now, the e.c.u must have settled down a bit!

can anyone remember the Total BMW feature of the black schnitzer touring s 3.2 ?  i have the copy here somewhere, under all my junk.

hell fire, 4 grand would buy plenty of nappies in our house. I like Chris Rossiter, and i even had the honour of frightening him around Donington last year but, im not prepared to skint myself by lining his pocket when i know a man that does the same job for a few hundred quid!

p.s  if anyone gets the chance to ride with Chris in his E30 sport evo, then grab it with both hands. He's a very talented driver. And Chris, if you read this, i look forward to seeing you at cadwell park BDD

still...........................4 grand!

Dave - just seen your request for the article. I'll see what I can do - but probably shouldn't post pics on the web for copyright reasons.

Will try and locate my copy of the mag and let you know

HF

I am soon to be getting the BBTB and manifold kit for my 328i Saloon.

Will post results when I can

Dan

hi dave!

what are your feelings about the kit? before/afters

sleeper wrote: hi dave! what are your feelings about the kit? before/afters

I didn't get the kit from Ian (Alpina 527) as I came across a manifold from a knacked J reg 325, so I changed it myself. So on the induction side I have M50 manifold and cone filter. I don't have the big bore throttle bodies yet (would like to know what benefits these have as a single upgrade, rather than with the manifold/air filter etc).

MG Rover released a bigger bore TB (same ratio increase as Ian's TBs) and I bought one for the MGF, although it made quite a difference to response esp. at lower revs, it didn't do much at higher revs. Maybe thats the characteristic of that combination, so would like to know what difference it makes on the 328 as the bore size is the same as the 325.

Before M50;

The revs tailled of after 5,000rpm so there wasn't much point in revving it further. I fitted a sports cone filter and this had a slight improvement. It created a nice bark over 5,000rpm.

After M50;

at first I didn't notice a big difference, possibly a smoother better power curve up the revs. But then after a day or 2 it started to get faster, possibly the ECU tuning itself to the different airflow. Now it will go straight passed 5,000rpm and will go over 6,000rpm and sometimes esp. on the track, it hit the rev limiter at about 6,500rpm. Also it was more lively mid range. The induction noise also changed at about the same revs as the old manifold started to restrict (4,500rpm), so from here it pulls notibly better!!! It now gives a nice 6cyl. induction worble at 4,500rpm where as before it just did a bark at about 5,200+rpm, then you had to change gear as it ran out of puff.

I would like to see what power it has on the RR as before the M50 manifold, I got about 200bhp. I am also considering the bigger bore TBs.

Does yours have traction? Not sure if this would cause a slight dissruption in flow as the air has to go thru 2 TBs. The non-traction induction does look simpler than with traction.

Hello dave, thanks for typing all that!

I don't have traction on mine, thank god! I did have on a previous BM and although it saved my wallet once it was pretty crude in the way it intervened. If you've got it you'll know what i mean!

I had a long chat with ian the other night about said manifolds. Its interesting that you say its from a j plate 325, It must have been a 24 valver, but was it the vanos unit? probably not on a J. The reason I mention is that if you have six fins countable before the TB on the intake side of the chamber you are slightly disadvantaged (i don't know why yet but will investigate). These manifolds were also fitted to the early 525i's with the M50 lump. How many fins do you have? Having seen how much machining work ian does to get everything to fit i would be interested to know how much grief yours was to fit?

When you did yours did you remove the gauze from the mass meter?

I am fitting on the weekend of 10/11-07 so I'll keep you posted as to the differences.

Don't want much do i!?!

sleeper wrote: I don't have traction on mine, thank god! I did have on a previous BM and although it saved my wallet once it was pretty crude in the way it intervened. If you've got it you'll know what i mean!

Yeah, I turn it off sometimes to get a better acceleration as it can really impead the performance by being a bit slow on reaction.

sleeper wrote: I had a long chat with ian the other night about said manifolds. Its interesting that you say its from a j plate 325, It must have been a 24 valver, but was it the vanos unit? probably not on a J. The reason I mention is that if you have six fins countable before the TB on the intake side of the chamber you are slightly disadvantaged (i don't know why yet but will investigate). These manifolds were also fitted to the early 525i's with the M50 lump. How many fins do you have? Having seen how much machining work ian does to get everything to fit i would be interested to know how much grief yours was to fit?

Hmm, I'll have to count them and get back to you. Do you know what the difference is, as the branch bore is a fair bit bigger, which I thought was the restriction. I was considering Ian's kit, but I got this manifold and decided to give it a go. There were alot of brackets, pipes etc to modify and make, and did have 2nd thoughts about doing it myself, but it worked out in the end, albeit with more hours in labour!! So it wasn't a straight fit, but easy to understand what needs doing, thats why when ppl have asked me about fitting, I've told them it is a fair bit of work and to contact Ian.

sleeper wrote: When you did yours did you remove the gauze from the mass meter? I am fitting on the weekend of 10/11-07 so I'll keep you posted as to the differences. Don't want much do i!?!

I haven't removed the gauze as some say it gives no benefit. The gauze in the AFM is of a bigger dia. than the TB so the area is bigger to pass thru the gauze. I'd look at it if some say it works tho.

I'd like to see what Ian does to the manifold so it fits straight away. I guess from when I compared them, is he has grafted the breather parts and black metal bracket to the bottom of the manifold as it is on the M52 manifold. This would be more or less 'plug and play'. The only modding then would be the fuel rail.

So do you live close to Ian?

sleeper wrote: The reason I mention is that if you have six fins countable before the TB on the intake side of the chamber you are slightly disadvantaged (i don't know why yet but will investigate).

Do you mean the vertical ribs on the the same face that the TB bolts to?

If so, I have 9 full ones and 3 half ones (front side) and 7 at the back (Servo pipe side). So whats the difference, has Ian mentioned the fin thing?

dave 328 wrote: So do you live close to Ian?

Not far, about an hour driving all sensible like, much less otherwise...!!

Ian mentioned the fin thing, and you have the tip top manifold, phew! When I have the kit fitted and the ECU has settled I am going on the rollers again. Last time I had it done at bridgewater, are you in the home counties (surrey/sussex/kent) area?

I had 187!! from a supersprint cat back, k&n panel and de restricted airbox. No printout from this RR tho', but of a bugger and a long way from where I now live hence looking for new rollers near home.

I'll do all at once i think.  I was near you the other day I think....

Is that figure at the flywheel? I got 164bhp at the wheels, so about 200bhp @ flywheel - with just a sports cone air filter.

What does the zorst sound like, Mine is std with the valve thingy disconnected for a bit more low down noise.

There is no performance benefit with the 12 fin manifold. I convert these manifolds to a plug and play condition and it's only the 12 fin ones that I can do.

I can also convert  the traction control body to big bore as well.

dave 328 wrote: Is that figure at the flywheel? I got 164bhp at the wheels, so about 200bhp @ flywheel - with just a sports cone air filter. What does the zorst sound like, Mine is std with the valve thingy disconnected for a bit more low down noise.

Yep, thats flywheel. She would be an animal with that at the wheels!

The zorst is unusual, but I have always had stainless before and cos they are so damn hard, they are generally louder (they don't flex as much hench reduced sound absorbtion). The supersprint is a combo of SS and MS so the piping is SS which gets hotter and the gases flow faster but the casing is MS and keeps the noise down.

Really  deep burbly noise especially when hot. best performing zorst I've had so far.

The note changed when I fitted the M50 as well... got a lot deeper.

alpina527 wrote: There is no performance benefit with the 12 fin manifold. I convert these manifolds to a plug and play condition and it's only the 12 fin ones that I can do. I can also convert  the traction control body to big bore as well.

So is the 12 fin one better or not? And is it 9 full fins and 3 half ones before the TB for the 'better' one?

Just checked my figures and my economy has gone up by 1.5mpg!?!

This is an old thread, I know, but I've just got round to having it done on my 328, so thought I'd post my opinion.

Alpina527 fitted the complete manifold and BBTB kit to my car on Saturday. It really is superb, and I can't recommend it enough: improved throttle response, much smoother shifting on the auto 'box, and generally much nicer to drive.

The installation is not trivial, so if you're thinking about doing this for a 323 or 328, I'd honestly say that Alpina527's fitting service is excellent value for money.

HF

Welcome to the de-restricted world!!!

I went to see Jayson (chippeduk) for a remap on Saturday, quick and easy, apart from the drive home, a truck had turned over so it took me nearly 3 hours to get home instead of 1!!

First impressions are the low down grunt (below 3,000rpm) is improved and top end. Overall a smoother more linear power!

I think the mpg has gone up, but I've been using the power!!  32.5mpg according to the trip computer - urban commute with a bit of motorway. Shall post properly when had a week with it.

I have recorded a drive with the camcorder and have a mic in the engine bay, sounds quite nice!! Will post a clip when I get round to it!!

Missed a good bit as the tape ran out. Went down a country road, listening to the induction rattle , 3rd gear, then hump back bridge, wahaay we're airbone!!!

Dave - having seen the kit being installed, I can only say that you were a brave man to try this yourself with just the bare M50 manifold !

I can honestly say that I wouldn't have had the skill required to relocate all the sensors etc. In that respect, the kit from Alpina527 really shines: it really is "plug and play" - but the work still takes 3hrs to do.

Earlier in this thread, the MAF gauze was mentioned: I can confirm that mine has now been removed, along with a large part of the airbox snorkel mouth which was restricting flow a bit.

HF

Do you rekon the gauze makes that much difference? The plastic hatching I would leave as this is supposed to smooth the airflow thru the MAF.

It was a bit of a pain installing the manifold, it looks quite bare and simple until you remove the manifold and reveal all the brackets and pipes etc . Did seriously think of stopping and asking Ian to prep my manifold to bolt straight on!!

Dave - I can't say whether the gauze itself makes any difference - but I was happy enough to take Alpina527's advice and leave it out. Any debris would have to get past my panel filter first before it gets that far.

The other part you mention, the plastic hatching inside the MAF housing (or the "big black gunsight", as I call it) - has remained: I was told this helps to direct/smooth the airflow.

I'm no expert, but I trust Alpina527's judgement - after all he has done exactly the same on his own 5 series and it's been running fine like that for 2+ years.

HF :)

alpina527 wrote: There is no benefit before the manifold is fitted, but after the full kit is fitted, there is definitely more power with the gauze removed.

Now I know what to do at the weekend!!

After I've fitted my X-Brace!!