This is my first post to the forum

I own 2001 520i using 1 litre of slx Castrol oil per 1500/1800 mls

is this normal !! this is my first BMW to use such amounts of oil.

Sounds excessive

BF

Its higher than I would like, but I think its within tolerences for a modern engine.  What mileage have you got on the car?  I've read that some consumption is reasonably to be expected on a new or low mileage car (especially if it is subject to a lot of cold starts and short runs) but that it should settle down as the miles start to build.  I guess its more important to know if it has suddenly started using it or if the usage has been consistent at that level?

As a '01 car, there is no known issue that I've heard of the "nikasil" type that affects earlier e39 6's.  Having said that, in the UK there seems to be no price premium for an m54 engine (2.2 170bhp, 2.5 193bhp, etc.) car over a similar age M52 (2.0 150bhp, 2.5 170bhp, 2.8 193bhp) despite the extra power, fuel efficiency, etc.  I've wondered why.  Maybe some of our UK colleagues have some input on that?  Any whispers of problems?

briana wrote: This is my first post to the forum I own 2001 520i using 1 litre of slx Castrol oil per 1500/1800 mls is this normal !! this is my first BMW to use such amounts of oil.

Whoa, Something definately wrong there.

I've a 2000 520i, serviced 8,000 miles ago, and never topped up, -still full.

Your either leaking it or burning it.

i "clicked here "but nothing happened.....jas

Briana

I am a 330 driver (although I'm sure the following applies to most bmw engines)

I am using about 1 litre every 2000 miles, with 60K on the clock, I have been speaking to scothall hampshire about the oil use and they took the car in for part 1 of an oil consumption test last friday (basically they drain the oil and fill it with a measured amount to fill it exactly) i was then told to do 600 miles (due tomorrow) and take it back for part 2 where they measure how much has been used etc.

The guy at the dealership has said that bmw class 1 litre every 600 miles plus as normal any less and they will look into it. . It does seem quite excessive to me that 1 litre every 600 miles is deemed to be normal but thats life I guess.

Of course I am assuming that there is no leak anywhere on your car or excessive blue smoke etc..

Hope this helps calm your nerves

thanks for your replys guys

milage on the car 50k no blue smoke no leaks no irregular running etc,

mpg steady as a rock.........................

I'm Intrigued by the reply's your getting briana.

My understanding was engines will use some oil for their run in period, and then settle down, I've had three BM's and none off them ever used a drop of oil.

To satisfy myself I'm not mad, I went out and dipped the car here at work where it's been parked on the level for a good few hour's, still the same level as when when it came out of service, and that was around 8000 miles ago.

So I'm amazed to hear some of you guy's using a litre/ 600 miles and being told its normal!!!!!

If that's the case the oil pump in mine must be shot, and the oil in my lump is not even getting to the cylinder's!! - JOKE

Carbon330 wrote: It does seem odd  to me that some engine use effectivly no oil and others are drinking it at a rate of knots. But having said that I dont want to pay an arm and a leg to bmw to investigate a non existant problem and replace parts that dont resolve the oil consumption. If any knows why some do and some dont i would love to hear about it.

So would I Carbon330

I'm all ears

Well heres the next installment in this story, on my way home tonight (having covered 590 miles) my oil light came on. The car is due at Scothall tomorrow for part two of the test so I will see what they have to say about this issue (I'm away this weekend, so the update may have to wait till next week, but if you would like to know, I will make sure I keep you all updated).

Regards Andy

I use no oil between services on my 2001 E39 2.3 (2.5l)

Mike

Hi, from my experience it does vary quite dramatically, some engines can use no oil, some the max amount as prev stated, most somewhere inbetween. Perfectly acceptable level is .7l/1000km. Worse during first 8-10k miles, settles down after but prob always use some. I think its consumption is affected by how the car is driven during the early period!

Cheers, Dan

318is-joe wrote: I'm Intrigued by the reply's your getting briana. My understanding was engines will use some oil for their run in period, and then settle down, I've had three BM's and none off them ever used a drop of oil. To satisfy myself I'm not mad, I went out and dipped the car here at work where it's been parked on the level for a good few hour's, still the same level as when when it came out of service, and that was around 8000 miles ago. So I'm amazed to hear some of you guy's using a litre/ 600 miles and being told its normal!!!!! If that's the case the oil pump in mine must be shot, and the oil in my lump is not even getting to the cylinder's!! - JOKE

Joe - over the past 120k miles or so I've never had to add a drop of oil to any of the BMW's I've owned (5 and counting), but with the range of production tolerences, general wear and tear, etc. regular top ups are par for the course in many cases.  Having said that, I know which car I'd prefer to be buying with 150k up, one that hasn't used oil won't have run low just because the owner doesn't dip it regularly.

The cynical side of me wonders if its a coincidence that acceptable levels of oil consumption seems to be rising as service intervals extend.  If the engine is using some, then there's probably very little of the original oil left 12k after the last service.  Get it to use a little more and extend the interval to 15k.

I realise production tolerance's would have an effect, having said that engine spec tolerance's for a BMW "I'd expect", but stand to be corrected, would be a lot tighter than your peugeot, ford, or opel. In all fairness, if you spend the money on a set af wheels as pricey as the BMW marque, you should be able to expect high quality, part of what that quality provides would in my mind, be low to zero oil consumption. I do dip the engine now and again, but the level never moves, so it begins to get boring finding the same result all the time. I dip so i never witness the red oil can blink at me at eighty or ninety, and hear the big end meeting the journals.

I spoke to a engine test tech that worked for ford on their zetec engine assembly and test lines in luton or somewhere near dagenham, their marketable product would be say a 2 litre 16v zetec unit with say a claimed 140bhp, on the test bed anything over 120bhp to 150bhp was deemed acceptable, not going off the point but there is and has to be a tolerance, on many claimed engine spec's, a porsche power plant if claimed to provide 200bhp would be tested to acheive min 195bhp or reworked - found this out on a tour of the Porsche factory in Stutgart.

The production spec's on the ford at manufacture, for ring end gap, crank float, etc were much more than a service manual would have you beleive, as required during consequent service and repair. I'd love to talk to someone who worked the test benches in the Bavarian outfit.

So if you get a lemon engine built on a monday morning, with all it's component's dimensions at the opposite end's of where they should be, it is safe to assume the performance / compression / oil consumption will be adverse to the friday evening built engine with all it's bit's and bob's at a tighter tolerance. The testing should not allow the monday morning engine out the door, the tolerance to which they reject, I feel for a quality product should be higher.

I dunno, If i had a recent car with decent mileage that i'd paid big money for, and had to top up the oil ever time I filled the tank, I'd be more than annoyed, It would take me back to my first car, a crossflow cvh ford, that I used to put a tenner of petrol into and a fiver of oil, every week. Ah the day's before the NCT, blue smoke came out the exhaust, and not from the tyres.

-every car I've owned that has used oil has without exception done so for a reason, and its never been a good one.

- I'd be slightly worried if I used a pint every 1000 miles in any engine.  In a few cases I've been able to strip out the engine and find out what the problem is and sometimes its just wear and tear, sometimes the rings just never bedded in (still a dark art), and sometimes its just a mistake.

-there are only a few places oil can go;

1) Down the valve guides- typically a puff of smoke on morning start-up. Nothing in itself to worry about until you get a 'gunge monster' on the valve stem that stops the engine from breathing. But ask yourself why either the guide is worn or the seal has failed. The latter can indicate that the engine and/or the oil has run too hot, and the former can indicate that you have top end lubrication problems. (On one engine that mysteriously used a pint of oil every 500 miles, I found that some genius had decided it would be a really good idea to stamp the inlet valve part number in the stem where the seal wipes over it...d'oh...)

2) Past the oil control rings (ring/bore problem)

3) Out through a hole somewhere (and crankcases run under slight negative pressure on most BMWs so quite big holes high up in the engine don't leak especially badly). You will see oil under the car wherever you park it regularly if the leak is at all bad though.

4) Oil burnt as a mist through overpressured crankcase. Typically piston rings don't seal, piston blow-by increases, and then oil vapour/mist (which  on many BMWs is vented to the inlet air hose between the AFM/MAF and the throttle butterfly) just gets burnt at an ever increasing rate. You don't tend to see smoke with this one for a long time.

Item 4 is potentially an engine killer. Even if you don't run out of oil, the oil in the sump is continually being degraded by rubbish that is blowing by the pistons, and this can cause the oil to fail to lubricate properly well before it is due to be changed.  Modern 12000+mile oil change intervals and inherently 'thin' (eg.0-30W) oils don't help here.

- If the engine uses oil, the oil goes  very black very quickly after it has been changed, and the oil smells 'bad' on the dipstick (compare with some in the sump of an engine that doesn't use oil) 1/2 way through its life then suspect item 4. The 'cure' is either to get the engine fixed, or to change the oil much more frequently than is normally recommended.

-I typically change the oil at 2/3rds the recommended interval on any engine with over 100K miles on it, as any engine wear (and there is bound to be some rather than none) means the oil will similarly be degraded more quickly than normal. Older engines in many cases get fewer oil changes through neglect- actually they probably need more.

-The manufacturer's recommended oil change interval is only OK if the engine is working properly and isn't worn. If this isn't the case then you probably need to do something different.

cheers

briana wrote: Nigel wrote: As its an oil related issue, try asking our new oil man, he seems quite knowledgeable, and wont have a vested interest in telling you its normal.         thanks Nigel ..... whos our new oil man

http://www.bmwcarclubgb.co.uk/forum/pm_new_message_form.asp?name=oilman - oilman

Thanks Brucey,and indeed thanks to all who replied to my problem so far.

I havent made up my mind yet what to do about this....

will wait and see what others have to say. as the car is still under warranty ( not BMW..Idependant ) the last thing I want is some have baked mechanic  havin a go !!!!!!!!!!!

Briana, Lots of info so far, but as another comparison, my 1999 E39 520 (101,000 miles), goes between services (average 12K - 15K) without any oil top-ups.

Something sounds iffy...

Heres the latest, for anyone interested.

The oil consumption test revelled that the engine is using 2.2litres of oil per 100km which I have been informed is very high (I would have never guessed) The car is going in for a week on the 2nd august to be stripped and investigated to determine what the problem is, at this stage they expect abnormal wear to be the cause.

If this is the case and the oil use is down to abnormal/excessive wear then despite not being under the original warranty any more, bmw will cover all costs (which I'll think you willl agree is damn decent of them) if it is due to misuse then I have to pay (time for a re-morgage) I have given the go ahead as i am confident that it has not been abused (see next paragraph)

As far as people saying that it is the way the vehicle is driven when new that seems to play a part, I must disagree, my car has been owned by my dad from new, never thrashed or mistreated, run on a 50/50 mix of unleaded/super and fully dealer serviced regardless of cost (company car), basically it has been very well looked after

I'll let you all know the outcome.

All I can add is.....RTFM.

I was horrified to see the "Normal" oil consumption figures as listed in the owners handbook.  I thought it was a mis-print or an error, but really, it couldn't have been.  German!  100 decimal places of average!  It will not be wrong.

For the record I am using half a litre every 650 miles (1 week).  I am burning a bit, but not so any smoke is showing.  It's me Valve guides in pots 2,4,6.  I wire brush the brown-crusty-crud off those spark-plugs on a weekly basis.  When my weekly mileage gets to a normal 180, I am expecting to do that only every month. 

Hi Carbon330
I would say your  consumption figure is not at all normal ,and also agree that this is not caused by how the car's been driven.  As it rightly sounds there is abnormal wear inside the engine. Have come across this once before, and on the car in question the piston rings were fitted upside down!!

Dan

To Brucey.....

WRT my problem (2 posts up) do you reckon a really thick oil could assist?

I have always dropped my oil every 6K, and nearly always used the non-branded oils, as recomended by the experts in good garages.  Branded oils are 60% marked up for the name.  (The oil bible website backs that up too).

I must have worn valve stems/guides, if the neoprene seals had gone, then the (Last three oil changes) addition of Wynns Stop-Leak should have softened that neoprene.  But it aint.

I do not intend taking the head off to mend this, as you know - head off means empty wallet.

-really thick oil isn't necessarily a good thing in a modern engine- it won't flow on cold starts. I guess you could try a 15-50 (in the summer) but I don't think it'll help that much.

cheers

Modern engine?  Well, compared to R kids original Cooper S (Git!), I suppose mines modern.  (1989 (12 valve) E34 2 litre with a real coil and dizzy cap)

So, your advice still stands?

-I s'pose everythings relative....... I would have no qualms about running that engine on 15-50W oil myself. Note the use of this oil may slightly increase fuel consumption slightly.

-BTW I have replaced the valve stem seals on some engines (not any BMW ones) without stripping the head off, using compressed air to hold the valves up while I stripped the springs, collets etc of the valves. Worked a treat, and saved the cost of a top-end gasket set plus time.

-I posted some details of the basic procedure on bigcoupe.com a while back

-has anyone tried this on any BMW engines?

cheers

Compressed air....with an adapter screwed into the spark-plug-ole?

What a good idea!

A bit of a bummer if yer rings have gone too, though.    Which you don't find out about until the valve drops.  And it's always on the pot with the piston at the bottom!

I will mention this idea to my Engine mender (I do the rest).  This could give a lot more life to my car.  I was thinking of binning it next year.

You will normally get better oil consumption with a fully synthetic as the flashpoints are higher . The lower the flashpoint, the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporisation loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flashpoint can be an indicator of the base stock quality. A flashpoint of above 200 degC is the minimum to prevent possible high oil consumption.

Just a bit of techie stuff!

Cheers

Simon

briana wrote: Thank you  Simon, in real english which in your opinion is the best oil for the bms that use a litre or two between changes ??

For year round use a good quality 5w-40 fully synthetic.

We have a few available, drop us an e-mail at mailto:sales@opieoils.co.uk - sales@opieoils.co.uk

and I will send you a full price list including carriage.

Cheers.

Simon.

Had an oil change done 2200 miles ago used mobil 1,done some long hard runs uk and Ireland, by the dip stick im expecting to add a litre shortly seems the change in oil brand maybe  paying off thanks again for all of your replies, real good info in there,will keep yous posted

briana wrote: Had an oil change done 2200 miles ago used mobil 1,done some long hard runs uk and Ireland, by the dip stick im expecting to add a litre shortly seems the change in oil brand maybe  paying off thanks again for all of your replies, real good info in there,will keep yous posted

Thats good,

Refference to my last post Mobil 1 take great pride in producing top quality PAO synthetis.

This may have been part of the reason for burning less oil.

Cheers

Simon.