Hi Guys,

I'm at the end of the road with BMW trying to sort out the premature bore wear issue. BMW Ireland are not doing any goodwill gestures for Nikasil Engines and the my "Approved Used Warranty" isn't worth the paper it's written on. The next thing is to look into this Short Block Repair Kit. Anyone have any info on this?

Thoughts, comments, suggestions welcome...

Cheers

Mac.

Mac, I thought I saw soemething mentioned about this on a different thread.  Do a search under Nikasil and you'll find it.  There is a 4-5 page thread somewhere on here about the Nikasil issue and it was in there.

Sorry to hear about your trouble.  What symptoms did you first notice the issue and at what mileage?

I've just hit 104k but the oil level never needs topping up between service, so I'm just wondering is there anything else I should be looking out for?  Is you car a UK import?

Hi Tom,

To answer your questions, the car is origional irish, FSH, supplied from new from Maxwell's and then a few owners in Dublin. I bought it last year, no probs for the first few months, then it needed to be topped up with oil every so often (93K)  Booked it in for a service in Nov, compression test carried out and nothing to report. Three months later, still needing top ups and got a second compression test done. Result- Fail. (99,600)

Went back to the supplying dealer and they advised an oil consumption test over 3K miles. It got progresively worse, they thought it was valve stem seals, but not so. The car is with the dealer for the last 7 weeks while they're trying to sort something out. Nothing more to do though...

Mac.

That would me my opinion as well. But not so according to the dealer. I understand that the warranty will not cover some items, eg a wiper blade.  Fair enough.

But you'd hope that one of the main components under the bonnet would be covered. The gist is that they reckon probably wear and tear, it was the mileage on the car that they had issue with. There was 102K on it when it went back to the garage where it was bought. The garage was surprised by thier attitude. Then we called BMW ireland to see could they help and they refused. They said again that the mileage was the issue.

I wouldn't mind but this car was bought through an approved BMW dealer and serviced with BMW dealers  from day one, so it's not as though it's strayed from the dealer network.

So what BMW is saying is that it expects its engines to last only 100k even if serviced according to BMWs own shedule and by BMW trained monke... technicians?

I've been talking with Mac about this over the past few weeks and the attitude of both  the warranty company and BMW Ireland is very hard to understand.

The car was "sufficiently good" to be sold with the "reassurance" of the Approved Used warranty, but the first sign of trouble and everyone is running for the hills.  Even the dealer hasn't, in my opinion, offered much more than token support.  E28's point is critical.  If a reasonable life of a BMW engine, when serviced according to BMW schedules, is 100k, I wonder then, why the same dealer is currently asking €24k or so for a 110k mile 01 520i?  It shouldn't take the more inquisitive of you long to figure out which dealer it is (hint, have a look at Carzone.ie).  Its a lot of money for a scrapper.  How many of us are living on "borrowed time" with our BMW's?

Another strange thing is that BMW UK (Customer Service) have been very helpful, but even though BMW Ireland is a subsidiary of that company, they have been obstructive and defensive and very deliberately distanced themselves from anything that BMW UK have said.  If anyone from BMW Irl frequents these pages, a response and explanation would be nice.

Adrian

I agree about it being a disgrace.  Going a legal route could be difficult, depends on precise terms of warranty (although I had a look at some of the documentation and I'd say there could be reasonable grounds there), the definition of reasonable wear and tear, etc.  You could also get in to big arguements about whether the situation was a pre-existing condition when the car was bought or not.  Using the court system is always risky.  No coincidence that the legal profession are probably among the bigger stealer customer segments (with respect to any here )

The question also arises about who to pursue.  The contract in buying the car is with the dealer, but the warranty is provided by a third party.  Is the contract with the warranty company between the dealer and the warranty or between the customer and warranty Co.?  BMW Irl have no direct legal role in the contract.  Having said that, they have a moral responsibility in my opinion when they are behind the Approved Used scheme and dealers charge a premium for cars covered (that in itself might help make a case, saying that the duty of care is higher).

The threat of legal action might be enough, and often is, but if they call the bluff then you have to be prepared to follow through and there is a risk, not just in terms of costs on the customer side, but also on the dealers.

Someone mentioned a few posts back about the Office of Consumer Affairs.  That probably would be worth a call to see if they have an interest here.

Mac,

Would Bavarian in Belfast be worth a try?

Also you could always try writing a stinker of a letter to the Chief Exec of BMW Ireland, cc the dealer staff etc. I know a guy with a 00 Alfa 156 that was falling apart who wrote to the Chief Exec of FIAT Ireland saying it was a disgrace etc.. and got the car fixed up (and everyone knows Alfas are supposed to fall apart ).

Other than that I'd go for the threatening journalist approach.

Sorry for your troubles though,

John

Hi everyone, newbie alert!
Just been reading this thread and can I warn you all... Stay clear of Bavarian Garages, Belfast honestly. They are completely useless! I am currently locked in an argument between Munich and Bavarian. Left my other BMW in a few weeks back (318is Coupe) to have a noise like a whistle checked over. I knew it wasn't head gasket or any of the other usual suspect bits as I had replaced all these myself. Anyway while the car was with them not only did they not find the noise but managed some how to wreck my 9 month old mass air flow meter, then had the cheek to try to bill me for the time spent searching for the orginal problem. But it gets even better...they actually turned round and said "We cant fix your car Sir, not much more we can do really, we have tried everything!" Makes you wonder why they bother having £60,000 worth of diagnostic equipment doesn't it? So at the minute I am refusing to take the car from their premises until Munich get back in touch with me as they have told me they are looking into my case. Anyway I dont care as I just bought a real real clean 328 Sport...Dont even start to tell me about the Nikasil issue LOL.

Anyway everyone, just a warning and wanted to say Hi.

These newer BMWs drive well, but lads, are they worth it?

I've been on this forum for just a couple of months and all I seem to read about is incompetent, robbing dealers, dodgy electrics and Nikasil engines.

Re: the original poster - don't give in. When did you buy the car and how many miles have you put on it since purchase (thinking along the lines of is the car fit for intended purpose)?

Thanks for the replies guys,

The car was bought with about 87.5 K on the clock, bought June 2003. First correspondence with BMW Ireland in Novembler, back and forth to dealers since.

Definitely don't give in.

You took the car back to them within 6 months of buying it because it was using oil. It's obvious it was sold to you in that condition. Obvious.

A friend of mine had a similar issue with a '00 1.4 Golf - purchased last June or thereabouts, it was noticed at its first service in December, 6 months after purchase, that it had seemingly lost a lot of oil. Subsequently returned to selling (not main) dealer. In summary, after some months and repairs that didn't fix matters, she took it back and asked for her money back. Eventually agreed to take a different (newer) car as a direct replacement. She was happy with that result.

Her basic arguement was that she'd been sold the car with a year's warranty, she'd had it serviced to schedule, but within 6 months it was losing oil. We measured and noted the oil loss - about a litre every 500 miles. Not an uncommon problem either, BTW.

Take it back!

Been thinking more about this overnight.  The main problem so far is that there isn't a whiff of goodwill from the dealer, the warranty company or BMW Irl. 

Killian mentioning the Director of Consumer Affairs set me thinking.  There is a complaint procedure that the SIMI operate to deal with issues related to their dealers.  Had a look at their website and there is a procedure to follow, so details are copied and pasted below (copyright SIMI and all that):

1. Before you lodge the complaint with SIMI you should contact the senior management of the company concerned in this complaint, either in person, by telephone or by post.
   
   
2. The Investigation and Complaints Service deal with complaints relating to a) the purchase of used vehicles from retail member companies and b) the service or repair of new and used vehicles by retail member companies.
   
   
3. A complaint must be referred to the Society within 3 months from the date the cause of the complaint first manifested itself.
   
   
4. Details of the complaint must be made in writing to the Society and accompanied by relevant supporting documents.
   
   
5. A complaint which is in legal hands or which is the subject of legal proceedings falls outside the scope of the Society’s Investigation and Complaints Service.
   
   
6. If the complaint cannot be resolved by direct discussion between the parties’ details of the complaint will be forwarded to a meeting of the Retail Motor Industry Standards Tribunal who will make a recommendation for settlement.
   
   
7. Members of the Society must accept recommendations of the Standards Tribunal.

It may be that holding the dealer up in the eyes of their peers may be more productive that the attempts have been so far to get a goodwill gesture.  The only slightly sticky point (depending on interpretation) might be in point 3, a 3 month window to submit a complaint from the time that the complaint manifested itself.  My take is that the complaint has only started with the refusal of the dealer, warranty company and BMW to approve relevant repairs.

Mac, if you think this is worth a shot let me know and I'd be happy to help get things together, etc.

Hi Guys,

E28 Ire, I suspected Nikasil last november, i had a service carried out at my local BMW dealer and nothing came up. In february, it was still using oil, so I scheduled a second compression test at that dealer, it failed the test. They filed a warranty claim and it was refused. It was then I went back to the dealer where I bought the car.... I told them of the bore wear problem and thry seemed very sceptical about it....

Hi Everyone,

The latest is that I took my 320i to David Prentice to have a compression test done and it failed. They asked BMW for a goodwill contribution and they came back to say that they'd give a 100% contribution as a sign of goodwill

Needless to say I'm delighted and just a word of thanks to all who replied with suggestions or views with regard to this topic.

Thanks again,

Mac

so in short, you developed premature engine wear (caused by the Nikasil issue) which had FSH. BMW Ireland would not help you. Your "Approved Used Warranty" was of absolutely no use.

Going to a 'foreign' dealer sorts it out. Madness!

By the way - fair play to you!

Mac wrote: It was then I went back to the dealer where I bought the car.... I told them of the bore wear problem and thry seemed very sceptical about it....

It was then that the complaint arose so if that's within 3 months you're in with a shot, to be honest it's probably still worth contacting them and cc'ing the dealer & BMW Irl as that may prompt a response

This is ridiculous, Anyone notice how hard the sales guy's try to get you to take this "useless" approved used car warrenty in Ireland.

I had the drop links done in my last car "under warrenty" same thing, sent an invoice, I sent it back, sent an invoice, i sent it back again, quoting the "approved used car warrenty" refused outright to pay it.

They gave up in the end.

Just wondering should this differring tale of cross border practices be told to SIMI, BMW GMBH, and anyone else who would care to listen, and fry the dealers here, somebody is on the take!

Make you wonder if BMW Ireland get approval for a replacement job on a VIN, they communicate out to you and me that it was not approved and charge the parent company the parts and rates to carry out the job, Meanwhile your stuck with nowhere to turn.

Thanks Lads,

I wont be writing to anyone just yet until I get the job done. 

Mac.

Mac

Well done, the perseverence has paid off!  Pity is that you had to jump through so many hoops in what should have been a cut and dried case.  I'd been meaning to e-mail you on progress since I got back from holliers at the weekend.  How did you get on with the chap at the IT?  Missed a couple of editions, so don't know if he published anything.  Its ironic that the problem has been solved by a dealer who has had no involvment with your car in its life (or responsibility) while the dealers that have been involved with it have clung so hard to the fence they have been sitting on.

Mac's experience of the Approved Used scheme and warranty should serve as a warning to anyone here not to be complacent in the reassurance that can be taken from the AUC scheme here and see throught e sales patter.  Even though BMW Irl is wholly owned by BMW UK, it seems that they do not have the same enlightened attitude towards customer service that the dealers in the UK have (I know many UK readers of this may disagree about enlightenment, but its a relative thing).

Experiences like Mac's dent the reputation of BMW and the perceived quality of the brand in Ireland - would you blame him for not buying another and/or could you see him paying the over the odds price for another AUC?

The design direction of BMW today has given rise to much and heated debate on the forum and there have been more and more posts that question the engineering quality and reliability of the technologies and materials being used in the newer cars.  The dealer and customer service attitude may become a more critical part of why people buy BMW's in future.  If the attitude is apathetic at dealers and distributors (as this example shows), then people will start voting with their feet.  What you've got then is a Ryanair approach to customer service without the corresponding low fares.  I'm not an MBA, but this doesn't seem like a viable business model in the long run.

Hopefully someone from BMW keeps an eye on this forum.  If so, heed the message.  You've got a significant organization problem.  Get it sorted or your business will suffer.  It may be masked by the growth in volume with models like the MINI and 1 series, but  sooner or later it'll hurt your business and the bottom line.

Now that I've finished this little rant, I've got a soap box for sale that hasn't been stood on too often if anyone wants it!