describe your car on the track

Post mondello I thought it might be interesting to hear peoples opinions of their own cars out on the track. Apart from being decent reading it might actually help someone choose their next daily/track car.

We should probably have some standard areas to comment on, but do mention anything worth noting:

Car: '98 e36 316i saloon, m43 engine
Mods/setup: lowering springs (eibach pro kit), 17" BBS alloys, brembo max discs with ebc green stuff pads, Falken tyres... thats about it
Braking: Bloody AMAZING when warmed up outbraking plenty of people on the corners
Handling: tendancy to understeer, with the rear end being a bit ambiguous. Sits very flat with the lowering springs but rear end can be a bit bouncy under hard braking while turning (sometimes unavoidable)
Power: Very very underpowered, was overcooking it into corners in an effort to maintain momentum, and when apexing was left seriously wanting. In contrast my mates comments were that the 318IS was the "lowest" powered car that had usable grunt thru the corners. The 1-6 is 40 bhp shy of even that! I was taking some higher powered cars but mainly thru holding the right line and braking very late and hard.

Anyhow... now to find that missing 200bhp.
Paul

Car: '93 e36 325i coupe, m50 engine
Mods/setup: Bog standard, 15" alloys
Braking: No problems, wasn't pushing too hard at all so no fade, etc.

Handling: First run with road pressures was fine but a little understeer.  Changed to 35/32 (FR) and that helped the balance.  Utterly predictable (contrast to e30 last year).  Very pleased!
Power: No real problems there, although its a little bit peaky, only coming to life on the track at about 3.5k rpm, changing between 5-5.5k.  I did find that the gearing didn't suit some corners, i.e. 2nd was a bit low (meaning having to change very soon out of corner) and 3rd was too high (meaning you were under 3k rpm and therefore too low on the torque curve for a swift exit).

For a bog standard setup I was more than pleased with the go and composure, even if not pushing it too hard!

Car: '97 523i M52 lump
Mods: BMW aero  kit (gives me loadza downforce bud!). On 17" E34 wheels bored to match the E39 hub. Rear rims may not be the best width for the tyres. Nankang fronts (which were very good!). Rear tyres had little tread left at the start. OEM discs and pads.
Handling: Very surprised at the handling of the car, given the rear tyres which were possibly toio wide for the rims. Also my ASC is down so I had was on my own. Very little understeer (as usual) and the car frequently thought about stepping out (especially on turn two which was done in 3rd and foot right down) but offered enough time to stop it. The tyres performed very well despite having low tread level and they should withstand another event (or two) as long as there is no rain!
No brake fade or other braking problems. If I stood on the brake, it stopped! I found I could use very short braking distances compared to the last day (mainly because the last day I was on my road tyres and didn't want to shred them).
Power: I found that it was occasionally slow to regain proper momentum out of some of the corners but a few extra bhp might sort that out. Between now and the next date I plan on doing the manifold, throttle body and chip mods to her.
In one session I actually found I couldn't pass the 316i which was quicker out of the corners and whenever I was ready to overtake, it wasn't a suitable location/moment. Next time Paul!

The car stayed between 2nd and 4th all day with no need for 5th. I had problems mid way in the esses trying to get up into 3rd but I think this was to do with the way I was leaning more than anything and I was catching the divider between 1st and 3rd. I must learn how to drive!

The car also feels as if it has too much body roll, something which I must look into.


Edited by kbannon

Car: 1989 E30 M3 Cecotto

Mods/Setup: Factory fit EDC (Electronic Damper Control) with 3 settings Komfort, Normal, Sport. 16" Standard alloys with 225/45/16 B/Stone S03’s running 32 PSI. Supersprint Exhaust System. 3.64 diff instead of original 3.25

Braking: DOT5.1 brake fluid. Pagid Orange pads on front. OEM disks all round. Braided brake hoses. Uprated Caliper pins on front calipers to give squarer pad contact on disk. No problems with brakes, actually very happy with setup however front left wheel did lock up once going into Stena. Need to check ABS.

Handling: Very good considering I was running only 32psi. I was expecting rain and for the weather to be a little cooler so used 32psi all round. Should have bumped PSI up to near 40. As a result experienced understeer at Honda and Dunlop. Tyres very, very hardwearing and sticky giving loads of grip – actually very impressed with grip and wear after 2 track days, trip to Germany and a few laps around the Ring.

EDC Suspension really came into its own on track. Started off in Normal just to see what handling was like. It handled well but I knew it could do way better. Stuck it into Sport mode for the rest of the day which made a huge difference. This stiffened the dampers all round and also adjusted the bump and rebound (doesn’t lower the car!). Car was very very grippy. Found that if I carried a little bit of braking into some corners, the front of the car sat down and I could take the corner harder and come out faster. Prefer this setup over previous factory setup in my old evo2.

Power: Probably could do with 20bhp extra (who wouldn’t!) over my dyno’ed 215bhp to give the bigger M’s a run for their money on the straight. Performed excellent in the short twisty stuff but felt underpowered on the straight. Upgrading the diff to 3.64 also improved acceleration up through the gears. However I did find going into Stena and Dunlop that I had to hold the throttle for a second or two at 7400rpm. If I changed into 4th I would have had to change back down again immediately. Gear changes between 2nd and 3rd were very quick. Had to lay off the power going around the right hand corner coming out of Stena and before Dunlop as I found that this spot was very greasy and didn’t have much traction.


Edited by Eamo

@b318isp - saw you 'enjoying' your LSD a few times, had heard they increased understeer on a track like mondello, but both you and TJ seem to say the opposite which is good news!

@Dergside - damn, missed checking your car out, would have loved a shotgun lap or two, as i'm dreaming of making a 325 track car.

@T.J. - the car is a beast (or is it the driver???), definitely held your own against the m3's.

@kbannon - I wasnt about to slow down to let you past, I needed every bit of momentum available, reckon you could've taken me if you'd hurled it into the corners a bit more :)

@///M3Mick - your car is sweet, and your driving v impressive for someone on their 1st track day in a recently purchased car! The power (braking & accelerating) was amazing, but there was definitely more there - much more!

@Eamo - that car is exquisite... a true keeper.

@Kin Mak - amazing torque in that yoke, i bet you were the only one powering out of dunlop in 3rd gear, a much improved driver by the last session too, next time you'll be hammering the puny m3's

Car: 1998 e39 520iM52 Saloon ECE

Mods:  Mechanics of the car are all still standard, but work in the last 2 weeks included 3 repalacement rollover coils, 2 new rear brake pipes, brake system flush, 17" ACS Type3 wheels with rear Falken 255/40/17ZE512 and front Falken 235/45/17ZE512 tyres, ACS sideskirts, ACS boot spoiler, ACS roof spoiler, Inspection 2, Oil service.

Power:  Could have done with more, and found flat spots coming out of Honda and Turn 3.  A bit of experimentation in the earlier sessions (with no-one else near me, of course!) found that if I dropped from 3rd to 2nd exiting the corner, the car kicked nicely into line for exiting the corner.  Exiting turn 3 in 3rd had no power; in 2nd it took a second to kick in.  3rd through the esses worked fine - 2nd didn't feel as secure on the track. 

Handling: Had a moment with 2 wheels in the grass coming out of Honda, but that was about all of the off road excursions this time out!  Don't know what under/oversteer is, but found it took the corners well, even if it did feel like a wallowing barge (as noted by Kin on my final outing!).  Tended to use the green  white kerbs a lot in the last 2 sessions!  After Killian showed me the lines, found myself a lot happier coming out of turn 3.

Brakes:  Very happy with them; put me exactly where I wanted to be every time.  Tyres may have had a bit to do with this, too.

Tyres:  Got very squelchy toward the end, but very happy with them.  Checked them last night, and no damage or flat spots on them, and not a lot of wear.  Rears at 35psi, fronts at 33psi.

Speed/MPG:  Using the trip computer, I got 12.5mpg over 5.8 miles, at an average speed of 53.7mph.  Only thought to check it on one session (2nd last one).

Overall:  Very happy with performance/handling.  Need to get spare wheels if I'm going to continue doing track days regularly.  Also maybe 20mm lowering (can't go any lower due to ramps/inclines at home), exhaust system and chipping to come.

Thanks to all my passengers for their commentaries, and Killian for showing me the lines.

Edited by Fey!

@ llatsni: I've a tiny micky (and wallet!). So I feel compelled to compensate as much as I can on the track. What more can I say?

Joking aside (I've a massive massive schlong), the car is set up well and is easy to go quick in. Chatting to Brendan, and the two of us passengering in each others cars to compare, the E36s behaviour beyond its limits is alot more benign than the E30. It's a credit to those out in them who can keep it neat on the limit, as there is a far more noticable and sudden 'step' from grip to slip on the rear. It feels like it gets enough grip to hold it and to play with the tail afterward, but that initial leap of a foot or so needs a bit of courage to step up to. It may even be exxagerated on the 318is over the 325 as the nose is that bit lighter, and the whole car keener to turn in and keep the nose dialled in. The E30 M3s I've been in seem a little more like the E36 in behaviour. Don't know what mods the E30 M3 has over the normal trailing rear axle. On the E36 (1st showing of the 'Z' axle that minimises camber change) you can pick the angle down to a centimetre. Brendan and others in E30s will have more to add, but they were my impressions of the cars.

Wheelbase plays a part too - my old 525i was a great bus to chuck around and really forgiving.

Edited by T.J.

Pity there where no official times for laps top see what was actually happening.

Never thought id see a rear wheel drive car understeer but it was happening. 

Driving styles varied amazingly, have to say being in with a good driver in a fast car like Ludos was a treat.

speed didnt mean much except on the straights, there were slower cars keeping up with e46 M3's! 

For exa,ple paul felt fast in his 316 as he was really chucking it about but then lost a lot of time in the corners having to brake so hard and late but he was still posting unofficial times ahead of kin in the big 5!

Would love to know what the grey 2002 was lapping in!

Car: 1989 320i

Mods/setup: spare wheel removed from boot. Tyres Goodyears on front, Kingstar Made in China on rear! Need to experiment more with tyre pressures
Braking: Needed to use right foot controlled ABS a lot. Especially when slotting in behind M3s at end of main straight. A few used to brake from about 125 meters. Are M3 brakes not better than this. 
Handling: Shocks weak especially rear, used to lift inside rear wheel like mad exiting corners! 
Power: Killian's dyno plot of a few years ago says 127bhp 
Dreams: 4 decent shocks, no lowered springs

Fantasy Limited Slip diff